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What’s the deal with the really loud wheels when coasting?

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What’s the deal with the really loud wheels when coasting?

Old 04-26-21, 08:17 PM
  #51  
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Taking this opportunity to once again lament how underrated Shimano hubs are. Not only are they nearly silent, but they have proper bearings, unlike almost anything else high end but Campy.

Oddly enough, when it comes to employing the cassette body as a stressed member to put the DS axle bearing where it belongs, the only other folks doing it are the likes of Joytech; there's nothing else above low end stuff that has the right sort of bearings in the right place, to my knowledge.
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Old 04-26-21, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by rm -rf View Post
Angry Bees tshirt. Chris King.

"Back when hub warranty registration was done by mailing us a postcard, Akiyoshi Takamura coined an infamous quote in the comment field of his card; "It rolls good with angry bee sound". This was the birth of the angry bees and so much more."
You can sick those angry bees on people. That's the real reason people buy those hubs. Close second in a race? Bees can fly quick and they're very distracting.
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Old 04-26-21, 11:23 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
...there's nothing else above low end stuff that has the right sort of bearings in the right place, to my knowledge.
Care to elaborate? Because I'm feeling awful bad about all those DT Swiss hubs in my garage...
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Old 04-27-21, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Badger6 View Post
Care to elaborate? Because I'm feeling awful bad about all those DT Swiss hubs in my garage...
Can you adjust the preload on your bearings? Being DT Swiss, I'd guess the sealing is okay, but I'd be surprised if they're angular contact, which would surely require preload adjustment, which I can't recall ever seeing on a cartridge bearing hub. Meaning your wheels will rattle sooner or later, maybe even out of the box.

And your drive side rear axle bearing is near the centre of the hub, rather than next to the dropout where it belongs, which is dumb and crap.

If folks were to stop defending this junk, we might get something better, but nooo
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Old 04-27-21, 07:36 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Bearhawker View Post
I hope someone does a study on how much drag noisy hubs make. Then quiet hubs will be all the rage for "free" energy - except then the quiet ones will be the expensive ones.

Might be worth it to stop the madness.

I am certain that this study exists. Somewhere, someone has measured freehub drag and compared among various hubs.

Oddly enough, out of the 3 wheelsets I own, the quietest hub (an OEM Formula hub) has the most drag, based on my own unscientific bike-in-workstand test where I just spin up the rear wheel and let it go.
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Old 04-27-21, 07:45 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
There's always that option, but it will cost you a few watts because of the increased drag.

Best looking bling I have seen in a long time. Who cares about electronic shifting, deep CF wheels, bottle cages, etc, etc. This is smoking hot!

Last edited by seypat; 04-27-21 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 04-27-21, 09:27 AM
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The case for noisy freehubs:

Is there any better feeling when you're taking your turn at the front, putting in what you think is a heroic effort, and hearing the "buzz buzz" of the folks coasting behind you?

What a great feeling that is!
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Old 04-27-21, 11:57 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Can you adjust the preload on your bearings? Being DT Swiss, I'd guess the sealing is okay, but I'd be surprised if they're angular contact, which would surely require preload adjustment, which I can't recall ever seeing on a cartridge bearing hub. Meaning your wheels will rattle sooner or later, maybe even out of the box.

And your drive side rear axle bearing is near the centre of the hub, rather than next to the dropout where it belongs, which is dumb and crap.

If folks were to stop defending this junk, we might get something better, but nooo
If they were really junk, I think we'd all know by now. Your opinion of the quality doesn't make it a fact. None of my wheels "rattle" or have lateral play in them...out of the box or after thousands of miles of riding. If they did, I'd just grab a set of cartage bearings, and replace them, and be back on the road, no "artful" preloading required.
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Old 04-27-21, 12:16 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Can you adjust the preload on your bearings? Being DT Swiss, I'd guess the sealing is okay, but I'd be surprised if they're angular contact, which would surely require preload adjustment, which I can't recall ever seeing on a cartridge bearing hub. Meaning your wheels will rattle sooner or later, maybe even out of the box.
Carbon-Ti hubs have adjustable preload cartridge bearings.
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Old 04-27-21, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Badger6 View Post
If they were really junk, I think we'd all know by now. Your opinion of the quality doesn't make it a fact. None of my wheels "rattle" or have lateral play in them...out of the box or after thousands of miles of riding. If they did, I'd just grab a set of cartage bearings, and replace them, and be back on the road, no "artful" preloading required.
You know how many times I've needed to replace cup and cone bearings in any of my stuff over nearly forty years?

None.

But apparently the simple act of setting preload within a rather wide window where the bearings don't self-destruct is actually some sort of arcane magic, judging by the number of rooted bearings I've come across as a mechanic.

Folks generally don't appreciate the finer points.

Last edited by Kimmo; 04-27-21 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 04-27-21, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
You know how many times I've needed to replace cup and cone bearings in any of my stuff over nearly forty years?

None...
You must be very diligent about maintenance. I also prefer cup and cone hubs and consider myself to be pretty conscientious but have managed to pit a few cones in my lifetime. They definitely require more attention than just setting the preload. I can understand why most people prefer cartridge bearings.
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Old 04-27-21, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
You know how many times I've needed to replace cup and cone bearings in any of my stuff over nearly forty years?

None.

But apparently the simple act of setting preload within a rather wide window where the bearings don't self-destruct is actually some sort of arcane magic, judging by the number of rooted bearings I've come across as a mechanic.

Folks generally don't appreciate the finer points.
If you are getting decades of use out of you cup and cone hubs, thenI’ll wager you spend many, many times the time servicing your cup and cones than folks spend replacing quality cartridge bearings.

I have 4 Hope and DT Swiss (Hugi) hubs ranging from 12 to 20 years old. These are on my 2 most ridden bikes. In all that time I have had to replace the bearings in just one hub one time due to wear. Other than that, zero maintenance to these bearings. None.
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Old 04-27-21, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
I have 4 Hope and DT Swiss (Hugi) hubs ranging from 12 to 20 years old. These are on my 2 most ridden bikes. In all that time I have had to replace the bearings in just one hub one time due to wear. Other than that, zero maintenance to these bearings. None.
Yep. And the one wheel set I had that used cup and cone bearing type hubs required adjustment about once every 3 months. After a couple of years, when I gave that bike to my son, I bought an inexpensive set of DT Swiss wheels, and he's ridden it for 2 years with not so much as a thought about the bearings. Though we did grease the free hub pawls and rotor last year, probably time to do that again. Just for the record that free hub is pretty quiet.
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Old 04-28-21, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Can you adjust the preload on your bearings? Being DT Swiss, I'd guess the sealing is okay, but I'd be surprised if they're angular contact, which would surely require preload adjustment, which I can't recall ever seeing on a cartridge bearing hub. Meaning your wheels will rattle sooner or later, maybe even out of the box.

And your drive side rear axle bearing is near the centre of the hub, rather than next to the dropout where it belongs, which is dumb and crap.

If folks were to stop defending this junk, we might get something better, but nooo
They don’t have preload adjustment for the simple fact that they don’t need them.
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Old 04-28-21, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
I am certain that this study exists.
It does, I did it on the way to work this morning. There is zero drag if you keep pedaling!
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Old 04-28-21, 08:57 AM
  #66  
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i like my hubs to sound just right.
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Old 04-28-21, 09:35 PM
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I use quality gear, generally Ultegra or better, and it's always been set and forget. Maintenance? Pshaw. Proper hubs have proper sealing. Many, many cartridge bearing hubs have little more than the poxy dust seals meant for electric motor applications you find on so many of these bearings.

Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
They don’t have preload adjustment for the simple fact that they don’t need them.
Baloney. You go and wiggle some rims; if you can feel the tiniest movement, that's an unraveling thread, and I've felt it plenty, even as I say, on new wheels. It's a stupid application for radial bearings, despite the lack of lateral loading on wheels - even with no rattle, without any preload, there's a hair's breadth of room before rattle sets in, then it's a short road to pitting.

And ye gods, the contamination. If a cartridge bearing that's otherwise fine gets contaminated, it might as well be junk. Sure, you could painstakingly disassemble and clean it in order to use it until it's actually worn out, but nobody does that except for that one guy. Cup and cone bearings on the other hand, are actually quite tolerant of contamination (yet are often better sealed anyway), since there's a natural escape path for grit to be pushed out of the way (like on the angular contact cartridge bearings that almost nobody uses).

I actually have a qualification at this stuff, you know. Is there anyone here poo-poohing my concern at this egregious yet overly prevalent shortcut, who's also actually a mechanic?
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Old 04-29-21, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
I use quality gear, generally Ultegra or better, and it's always been set and forget. Maintenance? Pshaw. Proper hubs have proper sealing. Many, many cartridge bearing hubs have little more than the poxy dust seals meant for electric motor applications you find on so many of these bearings.


Baloney. You go and wiggle some rims; if you can feel the tiniest movement, that's an unraveling thread, and I've felt it plenty, even as I say, on new wheels. It's a stupid application for radial bearings, despite the lack of lateral loading on wheels - even with no rattle, without any preload, there's a hair's breadth of room before rattle sets in, then it's a short road to pitting.

And ye gods, the contamination. If a cartridge bearing that's otherwise fine gets contaminated, it might as well be junk. Sure, you could painstakingly disassemble and clean it in order to use it until it's actually worn out, but nobody does that except for that one guy. Cup and cone bearings on the other hand, are actually quite tolerant of contamination (yet are often better sealed anyway), since there's a natural escape path for grit to be pushed out of the way (like on the angular contact cartridge bearings that almost nobody uses).

I actually have a qualification at this stuff, you know. Is there anyone here poo-poohing my concern at this egregious yet overly prevalent shortcut, who's also actually a mechanic?
I remember hearing some people making your arguments 20+ years ago when I first started reading internet cycling boards. The arguments made some sense then, or at least raised valid concerns. However, the past several decades of real people in the real world using sealed bearing hubs have proven your concerns to be a non-issue with quality hubs. The seals on decent bearing actually work pretty well. Again, this is what the real world has proven.


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Old 04-30-21, 05:45 PM
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It's a shame folks like me who like their stuff to be as good as it can be are such a minority. Cartridge bearings, particularly as generally implemented, are a marginal proposition; an insult to the discerning.

And cantilevered hubs are just plain stupid. I've seen a through-axle one fail at that totally unnecessary fulcrum in the middle of the hub. Best engineering practice is to give parts more than one job; the cassette body should be a structural member.

I really can't understand why folks who are prepared to pay for the best gear aren't actually interested in the best gear.
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Old 04-30-21, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
It's a shame folks like me who like their stuff to be as good as it can be are such a minority. Cartridge bearings, particularly as generally implemented, are a marginal proposition; an insult to the discerning.

And cantilevered hubs are just plain stupid. I've seen a through-axle one fail at that totally unnecessary fulcrum in the middle of the hub. Best engineering practice is to give parts more than one job; the cassette body should be a structural member.

I really can't understand why folks who are prepared to pay for the best gear aren't actually interested in the best gear.
It's tough to be the only guy that knows what they're taking about.
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Old 04-30-21, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
It's tough to be the only guy that knows what they're taking about.
Who knows. It's not people that, it's people who.

You might call it pedantry, but I call it not calling people objects. You might think that's NBD, but it matters.

Like goddamn crappy cartridge bearings and half freehubs.
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Old 05-01-21, 04:09 AM
  #72  
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Oh, boy
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Old 05-01-21, 05:26 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Who knows. It's not people that, it's people who.

You might call it pedantry, but I call it not calling people objects. You might think that's NBD, but it matters.

Like goddamn crappy cartridge bearings and half freehubs.
Oh, some people clearly *are* objects.
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Old 05-01-21, 05:33 AM
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Okay, sure, nothing means anything.

It's a pomo paradise; no daylight between glorious excellence and scammy imitation.
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Old 05-01-21, 07:11 AM
  #75  
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Discussion's getting snarky. Time for the Turbospoke.

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