Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Mini pump lesson

Notices
Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

Mini pump lesson

Old 05-11-21, 03:09 PM
  #1  
deacon mark
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,773

Bikes: Habanero Titanium Team Nuevo

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 314 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 76 Posts
Mini pump lesson

I rarely flat and in fact I was going on at least 2 years since last flat and over 12,000 miles. So of course I did have one a few days ago and out some 22 miles in county from home. No problem put the spare tube on and go. Well turns out my spare tube had seem split. Possible from being in the saddle bag for past 2 plus years and getting hit by one of my mini tools. Value stem pretty rusted too. Well I don't carry a patch kit although I might start. My problem was the first tube with the flat was a slower leak. My mini pump which I have used a few times and practiced takes a huge amount of work and strokes (200 strokes)to get to at the most 55 psi. That is rideable but not really good. I finally had to call the ride of shame home.

So now I am going be prepared. I have CO2 but that can have issues and I do carry co2 but have a mini pump. Well I not big on co2 since at times seating the tire can happen so fast in does not work. I have also had the cold get my hands by not being smart. My solution is just get a decent smaller frame pump. So I ordered a Lezyne Road Drive it has flexible hose and based on reviews seems like it will be fine. Then I am thinking of taking 2 tubes with me on rides as the pump I can mount under bottlle cage. I still can throw in a co2 cartridge but I still find them tricky and I am a mechanic.

I wonder if any of the forum uses a Lezyen and some of the strategy they use for flats. In my case I just don't flat enough to make a full go of covering all the bases. This to me would be patch kit and a full frame pump that easily goes to 100 psi. One would hope 2 tubes are ok and if they fail............well make sure you have the cell phone.
deacon mark is offline  
Old 05-11-21, 04:11 PM
  #2  
shelbyfv 
Senior Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 8,373
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2262 Post(s)
Liked 2,194 Times in 1,192 Posts
The Lezyne is a nice pump but the screw on hose can be tricky. You may want to practice at home. I find it easiest to screw the hose to the valve, then screw the pump to the hose. I also carry one spare tube, a few Park stick on patches and a CO2 with a control valve so it's not all or nothing. It's good to carry the tube in a zip lock or a sock for protection. Thinking that could be a good use for all those cycling socks that are too short to be worn this year.
shelbyfv is offline  
Likes For shelbyfv:
Old 05-11-21, 05:07 PM
  #3  
surak
Senior Member
 
surak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,460

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Canyon Inflite AL SLX, Priority Continuum Onyx, Santana Vision, Kent Dual-Drive Tandem

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 609 Post(s)
Liked 440 Times in 253 Posts
Yes, lots of thumbs up for the Road Drive minipump. Before I went tubeless, I'd puncture every so often and never had an issue with it. For longer rides I'd take 2 tubes and 1 or 2 CO2 cartridges along with a PDW Shiny Object, one of each on shorter rides. I'd take a repair kit in case all the tubes punctured, but that's never happened.
surak is offline  
Old 05-11-21, 07:26 PM
  #4  
illdrag0n
Senior Member
 
illdrag0n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 322

Bikes: 2014 Focus Mares AX 2.0, 2019 Cube Litening C:62 Race Disc Teamline

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 121 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 140 Times in 68 Posts
I love my specialized Road Air Mini so much i'm Tempted to buy 2 more so i don't ever run out. Easily gets a 28c tyre to 80psi when im out of co2, pefect for the initial seat of a tyre and dissapears in your jersey pocket
illdrag0n is offline  
Old 05-11-21, 07:31 PM
  #5  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 3,695
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3122 Post(s)
Liked 3,986 Times in 1,800 Posts
If you are carrying a mini-pump and a CO2 valve plus a couple cartridges, you might as well just get something like this and leave all the other stuff at home -- at most, this'll be a couple ounces heavier. Or if you are really a weight weenie, try this one, which is a bit lighter.
Koyote is offline  
Old 05-11-21, 07:51 PM
  #6  
fooferdoggie 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 870
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
Liked 248 Times in 144 Posts
I got a co2 inflator and pump for our tandem none setup for shreader and of course we discovered that when we had a flat. lucky only a mile from home.
fooferdoggie is offline  
Old 05-12-21, 03:58 AM
  #7  
znomit
Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk
 
znomit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 4,286

Bikes: Giant Defy, Trek 1.7c, BMC GF02, Fuji Tahoe, Scott Sub 35

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 401 Post(s)
Liked 449 Times in 226 Posts
Glueless patches are good insurance against a dud spare tube.
https://www.parktool.com/product/super-patch-kit-gp-2
znomit is offline  
Likes For znomit:
Old 05-12-21, 05:12 AM
  #8  
GhostRider62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 218
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 51 Posts
With the Lezyne, make sure you push the little button when finished pumping and before unscrewing; otherwise, you might unscrew the presta valve stem.

I carry both pump and O2. If it is raining and cold, I start the tube using the pump to make sure it is seated properly and then blast it up with the O2
GhostRider62 is offline  
Likes For GhostRider62:
Old 05-12-21, 06:08 AM
  #9  
OldTryGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SW Fl.
Posts: 5,128

Bikes: Day6 Semi Recumbent "FIREBALL", 1981 Custom Touring Paramount, 1983 Road Paramount, 2013 Giant Propel Advanced SL3, 2018 Specialized Red Roubaix Expert mech., 2002 Magna 7sp hybrid, 1976 Bassett Racing 45sp Cruiser

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 889 Post(s)
Liked 423 Times in 283 Posts
Originally Posted by deacon mark View Post
...................I wonder if any.........................well make sure you have the cell phone.
WONDER NO MORE because the following is easy to use AND ADJUSTABLE while inflating >>>

https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Bike-Tool...a-851818876967

I flatted and the replacement tube in my bag (stupid me) had a SHORT STEM so it did not protrude very far past the rim ???? NO PROBLEM because the inflator SCREWS ONTO THE VALVE providing a secure and TIGHT fit.

p.s. - I carry 16g cartridges so plenty of CO2

Last edited by OldTryGuy; 05-12-21 at 06:16 AM.
OldTryGuy is offline  
Old 05-13-21, 04:28 PM
  #10  
deacon mark
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,773

Bikes: Habanero Titanium Team Nuevo

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 314 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 76 Posts
Hey pump update, I got the Lezyne Road Drive in mail today and it is a great pump compared to the garbage thing I had. I tried this out on a deflated tire and easy 100 pumps to around 65-70 psi. That actually is enough but I did see about what I could do and maybe another 100 without huge work I got to 92 psi that is plenty and all I ride at times. I could have gone over 100 but certainly not worth the trouble. I got a set of glueless patches with it but I have never used the glueless ones do they work as decent as traditional cement and patch?

Finally in the interest of ease I found some Kenda tubes 4 for $26 on ebay 48m treaded value. Very good deal and now I really see no reason for the CO2 in fact pumping maybe really be as easy and not cold. The pump is machine nice and could go in a back jersey pocket I got the medium length but I put it under the cage. Carry 2 tubes in a saddle bag.
deacon mark is offline  
Likes For deacon mark:
Old 05-13-21, 05:02 PM
  #11  
UCantTouchThis
Senior Member
 
UCantTouchThis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 1,388
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 535 Post(s)
Liked 1,121 Times in 535 Posts
I have the chrome Lezyne frame pump. It has the hose. I line my screw on to the presta valve. hold pump up in a vertical position and actually use the body of the pump to screw the head onto the valve. Kind of like a long screwdriver.

Pump works ok. Has a built in 90 psi alert feature. When I get to about 90, the barrel gets so hot, I can't hold the heated barrel in my hand any longer. I've tested it at home several times and found I can get to about 90.
UCantTouchThis is offline  
Old 05-13-21, 05:10 PM
  #12  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Liked 171 Times in 107 Posts
I run tubeless at around 70 psi which makes life much easier for my mini-pump. This reminds me to test my pump and check my emergency tube at least once a year because I can't remember the last time I had a flat!
PeteHski is online now  
Old 05-13-21, 06:08 PM
  #13  
deacon mark
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,773

Bikes: Habanero Titanium Team Nuevo

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 314 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 76 Posts
Originally Posted by UCantTouchThis View Post
I have the chrome Lezyne frame pump. It has the hose. I line my screw on to the presta valve. hold pump up in a vertical position and actually use the body of the pump to screw the head onto the valve. Kind of like a long screwdriver.

Pump works ok. Has a built in 90 psi alert feature. When I get to about 90, the barrel gets so hot, I can't hold the heated barrel in my hand any longer. I've tested it at home several times and found I can get to about 90.
You got a decent pump but different than my Lezyne and as you say a frame pump.

Last edited by deacon mark; 05-13-21 at 06:56 PM.
deacon mark is offline  
Likes For deacon mark:
Old 05-13-21, 06:22 PM
  #14  
ksryder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,387

Bikes: yes

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1128 Post(s)
Liked 423 Times in 224 Posts
Gravel bike: pump, spare tubes, CO2, boot kit, plug tool.

Road bike: pump and spare tubes and cell phone if that doesn't work.
ksryder is offline  
Old 05-13-21, 07:54 PM
  #15  
shelbyfv 
Senior Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 8,373
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2262 Post(s)
Liked 2,194 Times in 1,192 Posts
Originally Posted by deacon mark View Post
now I really see no reason for the CO2
I carry CO2 mostly so that people don't have to wait longer if I flat on a group ride. More than once I've given cartridges to fellow riders who got fumble fisted with their own CO2. Just depends on circumstances, options are good.
shelbyfv is offline  
Old 05-13-21, 09:25 PM
  #16  
sfrider 
Asleep at the bars
 
sfrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,683
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 209 Post(s)
Liked 170 Times in 109 Posts
Originally Posted by znomit View Post
Glueless patches are good insurance against a dud spare tube.
https://www.parktool.com/product/super-patch-kit-gp-2
And perhaps against a dried up tube of glue in that ancient patch kit. What's more disappointing than finally needing that patch kit, after carrying it 5-10 years or more, only to find the glue is all dried up???

But then the pre-glued patches will probably dry up as well, given enough time.
__________________
"This 7:48 cycling session burned 5933 calories. Speed up recovery by replacing them with a healthy snack." - Whoop

sfrider is offline  
Old 05-14-21, 04:38 AM
  #17  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Liked 171 Times in 107 Posts
Originally Posted by sfrider View Post
What's more disappointing than finally needing that patch kit, after carrying it 5-10 years or more, only to find the glue is all dried up???
LOL! Been there, done that.
PeteHski is online now  
Old 05-14-21, 07:15 AM
  #18  
Litespud
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Chapel Hill NC
Posts: 1,310

Bikes: 2000 Litespeed Vortex Chorus 10, 1995 DeBernardi Cromor S/S, Nashbar 3sp commuter

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 492 Post(s)
Liked 516 Times in 288 Posts
Originally Posted by deacon mark View Post
I rarely flat and in fact I was going on at least 2 years since last flat and over 12,000 miles. So of course I did have one a few days ago and out some 22 miles in county from home. No problem put the spare tube on and go. Well turns out my spare tube had seem split. Possible from being in the saddle bag for past 2 plus years and getting hit by one of my mini tools. Value stem pretty rusted too. Well I don't carry a patch kit although I might start. My problem was the first tube with the flat was a slower leak. My mini pump which I have used a few times and practiced takes a huge amount of work and strokes (200 strokes)to get to at the most 55 psi. That is rideable but not really good. I finally had to call the ride of shame home.

So now I am going be prepared. I have CO2 but that can have issues and I do carry co2 but have a mini pump. Well I not big on co2 since at times seating the tire can happen so fast in does not work. I have also had the cold get my hands by not being smart. My solution is just get a decent smaller frame pump. So I ordered a Lezyne Road Drive it has flexible hose and based on reviews seems like it will be fine. Then I am thinking of taking 2 tubes with me on rides as the pump I can mount under bottlle cage. I still can throw in a co2 cartridge but I still find them tricky and I am a mechanic.

I wonder if any of the forum uses a Lezyen and some of the strategy they use for flats. In my case I just don't flat enough to make a full go of covering all the bases. This to me would be patch kit and a full frame pump that easily goes to 100 psi. One would hope 2 tubes are ok and if they fail............well make sure you have the cell phone.
I flat maybe 1-2x/year at most. I carry a spare tube, 2x CO2 cartridges and a very mini pump to get some air into the tube when mounting it, to prevent kinks. On really long rides, I might carry a second spare tube. Years ago I used to carry a full-sized frame pump, but I gave that up. In >45 years, I have never needed any more than this. One time I had to use the second CO2 as I hadnít seated the tire properly before I inflated, and I had to deflate to reseat. On the very slim chance that I flat twice on a ride (and I canít bum a tube or patch off a fellow rider), Iíll walk or phone - such is life

Last edited by Litespud; 05-14-21 at 07:19 AM.
Litespud is offline  
Old 05-14-21, 07:50 AM
  #19  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 7,001

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3690 Post(s)
Liked 827 Times in 553 Posts
Originally Posted by deacon mark View Post
Hey pump update, I got the Lezyne Road Drive in mail today and it is a great pump compared to the garbage thing I had. I tried this out on a deflated tire and easy 100 pumps to around 65-70 psi. That actually is enough but I did see about what I could do and maybe another 100 without huge work I got to 92 psi that is plenty and all I ride at times. I could have gone over 100 but certainly not worth the trouble. I got a set of glueless patches with it but I have never used the glueless ones do they work as decent as traditional cement and patch?

Finally in the interest of ease I found some Kenda tubes 4 for $26 on ebay 48m treaded value. Very good deal and now I really see no reason for the CO2 in fact pumping maybe really be as easy and not cold. The pump is machine nice and could go in a back jersey pocket I got the medium length but I put it under the cage. Carry 2 tubes in a saddle bag.
Just a curiosity.. isn't pump volume to tire PSI a linear relationship? Eg. if 100 pumps get you to say 70psi, wouldn't 150 pumps have gotten your tires to 105psi (1.5x more)?
Sy Reene is offline  
Old 05-14-21, 07:55 AM
  #20  
deacon mark
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,773

Bikes: Habanero Titanium Team Nuevo

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 314 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 76 Posts
Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Just a curiosity.. isn't pump volume to tire PSI a linear relationship? Eg. if 100 pumps get you to say 70psi, wouldn't 150 pumps have gotten your tires to 105psi (1.5x more)?
In theory it sounds good but assumes every stroke is full and consistent. It assumes no loss when hose taken off to check pressure with gage and the loss of air in that process. Frankly it makes no difference I just want to get over 80psi easily. This does it problem solved. I still have 23mm conti gp5000 but going to 25 so pressure high even less important.
deacon mark is offline  
Old 05-14-21, 08:02 AM
  #21  
big john
Senior Member
 
big john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 16,456
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2755 Post(s)
Liked 2,108 Times in 1,170 Posts
Originally Posted by deacon mark View Post
I got a set of glueless patches with it but I have never used the glueless ones do they work as decent as traditional cement and patch?

.
No, not in my opinion. I think they suck. I've had one blow off on a steep descent when the rim got hot from braking. Had another one blow off in the car on a hot day.
A temporary fix at best.
big john is offline  
Old 05-14-21, 08:21 AM
  #22  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 7,001

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3690 Post(s)
Liked 827 Times in 553 Posts
Originally Posted by deacon mark View Post
In theory it sounds good but assumes every stroke is full and consistent. It assumes no loss when hose taken off to check pressure with gage and the loss of air in that process. Frankly it makes no difference I just want to get over 80psi easily. This does it problem solved. I still have 23mm conti gp5000 but going to 25 so pressure high even less important.
I guess that makes sense. Note, going to 25s will mean lower pressure, but since higher volume, not sure there'd be any net reduction in amount of pumping.
I've been considering the Lezyne GripDrive HP. Would be nice to know how these various pumps compare from volume standpoint. Eg. the GripDrive (in small) is about the same length as the Road Drive, but weighs about 20g more. I don't care about weight, but perhaps this means it's a wider body (more volume)? I don't really need the 160psi that the Road Drive is supposedly capable of (the 120psi should be plenty).
Sy Reene is offline  
Old 05-14-21, 04:45 PM
  #23  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Liked 171 Times in 107 Posts
Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
I guess that makes sense. Note, going to 25s will mean lower pressure, but since higher volume, not sure there'd be any net reduction in amount of pumping.
I've been considering the Lezyne GripDrive HP. Would be nice to know how these various pumps compare from volume standpoint. Eg. the GripDrive (in small) is about the same length as the Road Drive, but weighs about 20g more. I don't care about weight, but perhaps this means it's a wider body (more volume)? I don't really need the 160psi that the Road Drive is supposedly capable of (the 120psi should be plenty).
You might find this test linked below useful. It's a performance comparison of pretty much every mini-pump on the market. Higher volume does mean more pumping to fill the tyre, but it is much easier pumping at lower pressures. Most mini-pumps are hard work above 80 psi.

https://cyclingtips.com/2019/08/the-...ike-45-tested/
PeteHski is online now  
Old 05-15-21, 04:16 AM
  #24  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 12,559

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 189 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4069 Post(s)
Liked 1,913 Times in 1,233 Posts
I've used mini pumps for a few years, no problems -- Topeak RaceRocket HP and HPX, and Blackburn Core Slim.

Of the three the Topeaks have the best ergonomics -- rubber grips, soft plastic rounded end caps, vs the Core Slim's hard edged metal end caps and no rubber grip. The shorter RaceRocket HP fits in a jersey pocket or some saddle bags. The longer HPX is more efficient and *can* fit a jersey pocket but will extend quite a bit. The Core Slim is too slippery and will fall out so it needs a frame clamp mounted under the water bottle cage, which is how I usually mount the longer HPX too.

I carry CO2 as well but use those only on group rides to avoid delaying everyone else. When I'm riding solo I use the mini pumps.

The trick is efficient ergonomics. Rather than pushing the extended pump closed to inject air, I pull the pump toward me. I had to learn that technique in 2018 after I was hit by a car, breaking and dislocating my strong side shoulder. I used my "good" arm just to brace the butt of the pump against my torso. I used my left hand to pull the pump toward me. It uses the stronger bicep and lateral muscles of the back, rather than the weaker triceps, shoulder and pecs.

The short hoses on those mini pumps helps. I hook a finger around the spoke and pull the entire wheel toward me along with pumping air. Sounds awkward to describe but it works really well and expends relatively little energy compared with trying to push the pump closed with weaker arm muscles.

Takes about 300 strokes with the short RaceRocket HP, about 200-250 strokes with the longer HPX and Core Slim. The first 75% of the strokes are fairly easy. The resistance increases a lot toward the end, but it is possible to inflate to my usual riding pressure -- around 80 psi rear, 65 psi front, with 700x23 and x25 tires. I weigh 150 so that's enough for comfortable riding, no problems with pinch flats. If I was heavier and needed to pump to 100-120 psi, I'd consider a full length frame pump or larger pump with folding foot and T-handle to brace on the pavement, like a small shop pump.

Or just carry plenty of CO2 cartridges and use those for everything. But carry more than you think you'll need. I've seen other riders blow most of their only CO2 cartridge into the air and need someone else to bail them out with a pump or spare CO2 cartridge.
canklecat is offline  
Old 05-16-21, 10:32 AM
  #25  
deacon mark
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,773

Bikes: Habanero Titanium Team Nuevo

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 314 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 76 Posts
Update number 2. Another flat today hit a huge pothole trying to avoid but car was passing me had to keep my line. So a pinch flat I get in a hurry. Stopped pulled the Leyzen Road drive out and was back in order pretty quick. About as fast as co2 and get my adrenaline going when I get a flat so road the final 6 miles of a 56 mile ride. Came home and check the tire with my floor pump and gage it was at 84 psi, that is fine.
deacon mark is offline  
Likes For deacon mark:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.