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difference between single and double front of saddle?

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difference between single and double front of saddle?

Old 05-13-21, 02:20 AM
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motopokep
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difference between single and double nose saddle?

What's the difference between a single and a front nose saddle in terms of comfort and performance? I'm more interested in comfort on long rides than performance.


Last edited by motopokep; 05-13-21 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 05-13-21, 03:14 AM
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atwl77
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Basically, imagine you have a regular full length saddle with a central cutout or relief channel. Chop off the front half of the saddle, and you'll arrive at something like the above. Why? To get around the UCI rule regarding saddle positioning so that you can sit further forward than with a more traditionally-shaped saddle.
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Old 05-13-21, 03:26 AM
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I use the above saddle, and like it. My other bike is fitted with a WTB deva. I like that as well.
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Old 05-13-21, 06:54 AM
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I have the above saddle ISM PN1.1.

It's the most comfortable road saddle I have used so far. My other saddles were regular single nose with relief channel.

Note ISM saddles require an adaptation period. In my case, it took me a month to become comfortable to it.

ISM is also very sensitive to wrong saddle height. If saddle is adjusted even slightly too high, you'll get rubbing and chaffing of the skin. No problem however if saddle is too low.

I also confirm atwl77 said. ISM twin nose saddles makes it comfortable enough to sit at the tip of the nose! I do it all the time in steep climbs or anything that involves high effort pedaling. Definitely makes it feel easier to deliver power in that position!

Last edited by cubewheels; 05-13-21 at 06:57 AM.
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Old 05-13-21, 08:57 AM
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Ok, but how does the double nose affect comfort or performance? The double nose saddle appears to be twice as wide in the front so it makes more contact with the perineum, does that mean it's easier on that area and there's less numbness on longer rides? I understand that it's easier to sit at tip of the nose when needed, but what about when you regularly sit fully in the seat, does it negatively affect performance? Are the inside of the thighs in any way rubbing against it (probably not). If it's much more comfortable, why are most saddles made with a single nose? Why would someone not want a double nose saddle?
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Old 05-13-21, 09:08 AM
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As with all saddles, what works for one person might not for someone else. Saddle fit is the most personal thing on a bike. You have to try it to see if you like it, you might hate it. I've given away saddles before.
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Old 05-13-21, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by motopokep View Post
Ok, but how does the double nose affect comfort or performance? The double nose saddle appears to be twice as wide in the front so it makes more contact with the perineum, does that mean it's easier on that area and there's less numbness on longer rides? I understand that it's easier to sit at tip of the nose when needed, but what about when you regularly sit fully in the seat, does it negatively affect performance? Are the inside of the thighs in any way rubbing against it (probably not). If it's much more comfortable, why are most saddles made with a single nose? Why would someone not want a double nose saddle?
Apologies for the crappy MS Paint art... but it's really not that different, once you wrap your mind around it:



As for concerns about inner thigh rubbing - the general advise is, if your thigh is rubbing, lower your saddle, or get the narrower model. And if your thigh is still rubbing with the narrowest model... then maybe it's not the one for you.

Speaking from my own experience - I rode a 600km brevet with the PR 2.0. Very comfortable, just some annoying thigh rubbing because I am a pretty thin person (my regular saddle is a Fizik Arione). I also tried the PN 3.0 on a 200km brevet. Better, no thigh rub, but it's only comfortable in a low, aero position (e.g. on the drops or aerobars). Try to sit up a bit and the 120mm width just doesn't work well for me.

Last edited by atwl77; 05-13-21 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 05-13-21, 11:10 AM
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I'd think with a saddle that comfort and performance were the same thing. If you aren't comfortable then your performance suffers.
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Old 05-13-21, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by guachi View Post
I'd think with a saddle that comfort and performance were the same thing. If you aren't comfortable then your performance suffers.
If that were true, why wouldn't all racers put this saddle on their road/racing bike?

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Old 05-13-21, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by motopokep View Post
If that were true, why wouldn't all racers put this saddle on their road/racing bike?

Put that thing on your bike and go ride for 8 hours and tell us how comfortable it is. It's not a bar stool, on a bike your legs move and do work, a big tractor seat would get in the way.
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Old 05-13-21, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
Put that thing on your bike and go ride for 8 hours and tell us how comfortable it is. It's not a bar stool, on a bike your legs move and do work, a big tractor seat would get in the way.
+1 I doubt most folks could ride something like that for more than an hour unless they were on a "sit up and beg" cruiser. A lot of cycling stuff seems odd to people who don't ride. Probably the same with any activity.
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Old 05-13-21, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by motopokep View Post
If that were true, why wouldn't all racers put this saddle on their road/racing bike?


For the bike that you bought and the riding you said you wanted to do, this would probably be fine.
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Old 05-13-21, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bampilot06 View Post
For the bike that you bought and the riding you said you wanted to do, this would probably be fine.
Don't be stupid. It's obviously the wrong colour.
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Old 05-13-21, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
As with all saddles, what works for one person might not for someone else. Saddle fit is the most personal thing on a bike. You have to try it to see if you like it, you might hate it. I've given away saddles before.
^^ This.
Also as most people use and prefer a more "normal" saddle you could also conclude that is what works for most people.
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Old 05-14-21, 12:24 AM
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seems there is no consensus as to advantages of a double nose over single nose saddle. It also seems the single nose saddles are more prevalent.
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Old 05-14-21, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
^^ This.
Also as most people use and prefer a more "normal" saddle you could also conclude that is what works for most people.
Most people don’t have to worry about UCI regulations. I have seen more than a few enduros at the track use them to help het around the stupid setback rules
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Old 05-14-21, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by motopokep View Post
seems there is no consensus as to advantages of a double nose over single nose saddle. It also seems the single nose saddles are more prevalent.
There is a clear advantage to those who can sit more forward against the BB to raise power output.

Such sitting position also offers huge advantage to those who does lots of steep climbs.
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Old 05-14-21, 01:49 AM
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motopokep
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Originally Posted by cubewheels View Post
There is a clear advantage to those who can sit more forward against the BB to raise power output.

Such sitting position also offers huge advantage to those who does lots of steep climbs.
what does "BB" stand for? I'm trying to decipher your post and am I correct that you mean that single nose saddle renders better uphill performance than double nose?
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Old 05-14-21, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by cubewheels View Post
There is a clear advantage to those who can sit more forward against the BB to raise power output.

Such sitting position also offers huge advantage to those who does lots of steep climbs.
I guess all those pro riders that are climbing sitting back on the saddle are giving up a huge advantage then.
Someone should tell them.
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Old 05-14-21, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by motopokep View Post
what does "BB" stand for? I'm trying to decipher your post and am I correct that you mean that single nose saddle renders better uphill performance than double nose?
BB = bottom bracket, i.e centre of the crank spindle in particular being the point of reference.
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Old 05-14-21, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by motopokep View Post
what does "BB" stand for? I'm trying to decipher your post and am I correct that you mean that single nose saddle renders better uphill performance than double nose?
I meant the double nose has the advantage. Sorry, BB means the bottom bracket.

The double nose allows you to sit at the tip of the nose of the saddle without discomfort and that position opens the hips for more power/endurance.
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Old 05-14-21, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
I guess all those pro riders that are climbing sitting back on the saddle are giving up a huge advantage then.
Someone should tell them.
Most pro bikes still use single nose saddle so the pro riders really can't sit at the nose for very long periods and not suffer.

Maybe they would sit at the nose if they had double nose saddles but never seen a double nose saddle on a non-TT pro bike yet. Maybe it's banned by UCI except for TT use?
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Old 05-14-21, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by motopokep View Post
seems there is no consensus as to advantages of a double nose over single nose saddle. It also seems the single nose saddles are more prevalent.
This is correct. There is literally no consensus when it comes to saddle choice. Saddles come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, just like people's butts! Unfortunately there's a fair bit of trial and error involved in choosing a saddle, but I would start off with something more conventional than the ISM and see how it goes. Some shops have demo saddles to try too. I've been through a few saddles in my time, but I'm really liking this one from Fizik. It's pretty easy on the man gear with the cut-out and comfortable for all day endurance rides. The best saddles are the ones you don't actually notice when riding.

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Old 05-14-21, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
This is correct. There is literally no consensus when it comes to saddle choice. Saddles come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, just like people's butts! Unfortunately there's a fair bit of trial and error involved in choosing a saddle, but I would start off with something more conventional than the ISM and see how it goes. Some shops have demo saddles to try too. I've been through a few saddles in my time, but I'm really liking this one from Fizik. It's pretty easy on the man gear with the cut-out and comfortable for all day endurance rides. The best saddles are the ones you don't actually notice when riding.

They really are incredibly personal. For years I was a Selle Italia Flite guy, but my new bike last fall came with a short nose saddle very similar to this in shape (a Most saddle). Easily my favorite saddle of all time. Then I picked up a gravel bike with a Seller Italia Model X which I also love. This shape works for me - of course it's a similar shape to my old Flite with the nose cut off, as noted above. I'm also a rider who likes to shift forward when hammering, and these stubby noses are way more comfortable. I may have to try one of these double nose saddles if I do decide to look at time trials....
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Old 05-14-21, 06:12 AM
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I don't really understand the stubby nosed appeal. Is it an appearance thing? I never ride sitting on the nose of my non-stubby saddle, nor find the nose to be in the way. So what is gained by having that last ~4cm lopped off the front (a bit of weight savings)? I considered the Selle Italia "Boost" version of the SP-01, but didn't see any advantage so I've been happy with the standard. FWIW, the stubby version seems to be priced higher also.
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