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All wheel drive

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All wheel drive

Old 05-27-21, 10:59 AM
  #1  
popeye
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All wheel drive

I had never heard the term before but this morning I heard it in conjunction with bikes and motorcycles.

https://hackaday.com/2021/05/26/all-...d-drill-parts/

Just keep your fingers out of that chain. Seeing that made an image of that fixie guys fingers on the bench reappear.
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Old 05-27-21, 11:05 AM
  #2  
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How about a unicycle? They're all wheel drive. AND no chain to catch your fingers in!
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Old 05-27-21, 11:14 AM
  #3  
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I saw this one at the Philly Bike Show in 2019 and thought that it looked pretty well thought out.

Christini Bicycles
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Old 05-27-21, 12:56 PM
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Let the mountain bikers and others prove this technology and refine it. We can take another look further down the road.

Road bikes being a pavement dwelling beast don't suffer from loss of traction that'd require all wheel drive. I was very happy to wait 20 years to try disc brakes and still waiting on the tubeless tire thing. All great tech that crossed over when the margins got to a useful point for road bikes.

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Old 05-28-21, 11:55 AM
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There have been many two-wheel drive bike projects, and I think that Legacy was the first I ever saw.

If you follow the link to the bottom, you’ll see their ‘91 brochure: Weird Bike Stuff. That’s Repack Rider ’s site, so maybe Charlie can pop in with some history backfill.
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Old 05-28-21, 01:22 PM
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Old 05-28-21, 01:58 PM
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I used to think 2wd bikes would be great for off-road use, but have since reconsidered. The drawback as I see it would be that a front wheel that is driving the bike forward is using up traction that would be used for steering and balance. If you run out of traction for steering, generally, you fall.

Further, with all the off-road biking experience I have had, I cannot think of a scenario where I needed 2wd - generally for climbing steep hills the front wheel is almost completely unweighted so can offer little help in driving forward. Trying to get over stumps or other large obstacles wouldn't be any better either, as the limiting factor is usually the pedal or chainring hitting the obstacle, and if you aren't turning the pedals then neither wheel is driving forward. In fact, most maneuvers to get over obstacles start with unweighting your front tire, making a front drive tire useless.

I could be wrong, but 2wd systems have been around for a couple decades (I saw one style in a magazine in at least the early nineties) and many cyclists are confirmed 'early adopters' of new technology, so if there was an advantage I would have seen at least a couple people riding 2wd bikes over the years - maybe only trials riders or hardcore technical singletrack riders, but someone would be using it. However, to date I have seen ZERO people riding 2wd bikes irl - only in magazine articles.
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Old 05-28-21, 04:12 PM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by ClydeClydeson View Post
I... the front wheel is almost completely unweighted so can offer little help in driving forward. Trying to get over stumps or other large obstacles wouldn't be any better either, as the limiting factor is usually the pedal or chainring hitting the obstacle, and if you aren't turning the pedals then neither wheel is driving forward. In fact, most maneuvers to get over obstacles start with unweighting your front tire, making a front drive tire useless.
Exactly. Hard to imagine any scenario where it would provide an advantage except maybe in a parking lot to attract the attention of curious mountain bikers.
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Old 05-28-21, 05:19 PM
  #9  
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And you thought disc rotors were dangerous.
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Old 05-28-21, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ClydeClydeson View Post
I used to think 2wd bikes would be great for off-road use, but have since reconsidered. The drawback as I see it would be that a front wheel that is driving the bike forward is using up traction that would be used for steering and balance. If you run out of traction for steering, generally, you fall.

Further, with all the off-road biking experience I have had, I cannot think of a scenario where I needed 2wd - generally for climbing steep hills the front wheel is almost completely unweighted so can offer little help in driving forward. Trying to get over stumps or other large obstacles wouldn't be any better either, as the limiting factor is usually the pedal or chainring hitting the obstacle, and if you aren't turning the pedals then neither wheel is driving forward. In fact, most maneuvers to get over obstacles start with unweighting your front tire, making a front drive tire useless.

I could be wrong, but 2wd systems have been around for a couple decades (I saw one style in a magazine in at least the early nineties) and many cyclists are confirmed 'early adopters' of new technology, so if there was an advantage I would have seen at least a couple people riding 2wd bikes over the years - maybe only trials riders or hardcore technical singletrack riders, but someone would be using it. However, to date I have seen ZERO people riding 2wd bikes irl - only in magazine articles.
I agree. Maybe riding on loose sand could be a valid application, but who wants to ride on that stuff anyway?

For road use it would be a complete waste of time, while adding both weight and friction to the drivetrain.
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Old 05-28-21, 06:01 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by ClydeClydeson View Post
I used to think 2wd bikes would be great for off-road use, but have since reconsidered. The drawback as I see it would be that a front wheel that is driving the bike forward is using up traction that would be used for steering and balance. If you run out of traction for steering, generally, you fall.

Further, with all the off-road biking experience I have had, I cannot think of a scenario where I needed 2wd - generally for climbing steep hills the front wheel is almost completely unweighted so can offer little help in driving forward.
I suspect with the awd the idea is that rather than unweighting the front to get more rear traction you can put more weight forward and the front will dig in. I've always hated the long climbs in which I end up having to choose between loss of traction or loss of steering as I have to put the weight to one wheel or the other. Maybe its more of a clydesdale issue but I could see where this would be useful. But I suspect the weight and parasitic drivetrain loss would make the ride feel sluggish.
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Old 05-29-21, 06:03 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
I have many questions.
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Old 05-29-21, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Greiselman View Post
I have many questions.
Where are those cables going?
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Old 05-29-21, 07:40 AM
  #14  
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If it did have a advantage in soft sand, are you just going to ride in soft sand all day? And the sand he's riding on in the video is not soft, you could ride any mtb on that.

I can't see a 2wd motorcycle or bicycle ever becoming more than a curiosity.
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Old 05-29-21, 07:42 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by znomit View Post
Where are those cables going?
How'd you like to have your seatpost directly over and to one side of the rear axle?
Not to mention the steer tube.
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Old 05-29-21, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
How'd you like to have your seatpost directly over and to one side of the rear axle?
Not to mention the steer tube.
Yeah but thats only going to bother you for 1/8th of a pedal stroke.
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Old 05-29-21, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by znomit View Post
Yeah but thats only going to bother you for 1/8th of a pedal stroke.
I guess you could constantly lean left. What happens to the chain when you steer?
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Old 05-29-21, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Greiselman View Post
I have many questions.

Answers:
https://www.gianlucagimini.it/portfo...m/velocipedia/
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Old 05-29-21, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by popeye View Post
Just keep your fingers out of that chain.
And be ready for the torque reaction through the steering...

I saw a 2WD MTB last century on Beyond 2000 that was better thought out than this, used a flex drive instead of silly bevel gears.
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Old 05-29-21, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Let the mountain bikers and others prove this technology and refine it.
Don’t hold your breath

There have been 2WD mountain bikes out for a good 20 years, and they have gone nowhere. Interest from the MTB community peaked at roughly zero.

Last edited by Kapusta; 05-30-21 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 05-29-21, 10:51 PM
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I recall a dirt bike project that used a hydraulic system though I’m blanking on details.
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Old 05-30-21, 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post

That is awesome.
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Old 05-30-21, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
Absolutely brilliant and maybe one of the most wholesome things I've ever seen on BF.
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Old 05-30-21, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
Very cool indeed. I'm going to get my wife and daughters to draw a bicycle and see what sort of mutant beasts they come up with.
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Old 05-30-21, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
I recall a dirt bike project that used a hydraulic system though I’m blanking on details.
I remember someone built a YZ250 with a hydraulic pump where the countershaft sprocket would be and a smaller pump on the rear hub, connected by 2 hydraulic hoses. The idea was to keep the engine in the heart of the powerband. I think it worked but there is no market for it.
There have been 2wd motorcycles actually on the market (chain drive) but they are quite pointless, just like 2wd bicycles are.

Here is an experimental hydraulic drive 2wd motorcycle.

Last edited by big john; 05-30-21 at 04:23 PM.
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