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Tubeless Tires on Road bike. Yuck!

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Tubeless Tires on Road bike. Yuck!

Old 06-20-21, 10:30 AM
  #151  
Zaskar
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PeteHski ... wow. I didn't really think people gave a ***** about a little spray on their bikes. But I guess it's a thing. I'm lookin at you now tomato coupe ;-)

Come on guys. We supposed to be athletes. These are supposed to be tools of our sport. Plus, the time it takes me too wipe/rinse off that spray will likely be less than the time it didn't take to change a tube - OR getting the grease off my fingers and chain stay from pulling/reinstalling a rear wheel.

Maybe it's my BMX, then MTB background and now gravel riding that's set a different level of acceptable use/abuse for the bikes. You could draw blood on the rough pits/scratches on my gravel bike's crank arms. Hell, even the seat tube is pitted from rocks hitting it. But you know what... it's just a bike.
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Old 06-20-21, 11:00 AM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
PeteHski ... wow. I didn't really think people gave a ***** about a little spray on their bikes. But I guess it's a thing. I'm lookin at you now tomato coupe ;-)

Come on guys. We supposed to be athletes. These are supposed to be tools of our sport. Plus, the time it takes me too wipe/rinse off that spray will likely be less than the time it didn't take to change a tube - OR getting the grease off my fingers and chain stay from pulling/reinstalling a rear wheel.

Maybe it's my BMX, then MTB background and now gravel riding that's set a different level of acceptable use/abuse for the bikes. You could draw blood on the rough pits/scratches on my gravel bike's crank arms. Hell, even the seat tube is pitted from rocks hitting it. But you know what... it's just a bike.
It's usually those who don't actually run tubeless tyres but like to list reasons why they think it's a rubbish idea. I too come from an mtb background and struggle a bit with this apparent roadie obsession with having a surgically clean bike and kit. I keep my drivetrain in top condition, but the rest can just take care of itself.
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Old 06-20-21, 11:01 AM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
PeteHski ... wow. I didn't really think people gave a ***** about a little spray on their bikes. But I guess it's a thing. I'm lookin at you now tomato coupe ;-)

Come on guys. We supposed to be athletes. These are supposed to be tools of our sport. Plus, the time it takes me too wipe/rinse off that spray will likely be less than the time it didn't take to change a tube - OR getting the grease off my fingers and chain stay from pulling/reinstalling a rear wheel.

Maybe it's my BMX, then MTB background and now gravel riding that's set a different level of acceptable use/abuse for the bikes. You could draw blood on the rough pits/scratches on my gravel bike's crank arms. Hell, even the seat tube is pitted from rocks hitting it. But you know what... it's just a bike.
The inherent and imo fallacious assumption in the bolded statement seem to be that all tyres puncture equally often. They dont. The need for TL - with sealant - is in reality brought about by the insisting on riding paper thin race day tyres all the time and exposing you to endless flats unless some kind of action is taken. Id argue, as I have for a long time, that choosing a tyre better fit for purpose is much less hassle and less expense, in most cases.
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Old 06-20-21, 11:10 AM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
The inherent and imo fallacious assumption in the bolded statement seem to be that all tyres puncture equally often. They dont. The need for TL - with sealant - is in reality brought about by the insisting on riding paper thin race day tyres all the time and exposing you to endless flats unless some kind of action is taken. Id argue, as I have for a long time, that choosing a tyre better fit for purpose is much less hassle and less expense, in most cases.
As opposed to running paper thin tubed race day tyres and having to regularly stop to change tubes. I did a local sportive a few weeks ago on some pretty crappy rural back-roads full of thorns and sharp stones. I fitted my virtually puncture-proof Pirelli Cinturatos with a generous dose of sealant (just in case anything did get through the casing) for the job and must have passed maybe a dozen or more riders fixing flats by the roadside.
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Old 06-20-21, 11:14 AM
  #155  
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I don't disagree Racing Dan . I said, in this thread or another recent thread - Not running tubeless on a mtn bike is dumb. Not running tubeless on a gravel bike is ill-advised (and means you're really not riding where you could be on that gravel bike)... but that tubeless on a road bike is a choice that depends on a bunch of factors. The pros vs cons aren't as clear cut as they are on the dirt.
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Old 06-20-21, 11:18 AM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
I haven't used Schwalbe Pro One tyres (was put off by reviews of them being a bit fragile), but I think I read somewhere that they improved their puncture resistance in later versions. But according to bicyclerollingresistance.com Pirelli currently have the best race tyre for puncture protection, so that's what I chose. I've been running the Pirelli Cinturato training/all-season tyre for a while and those appear to be bomb proof (not a hint of a puncture or cut after riding extensively on crappy roads), but a bit heavy and slower rolling than a more race focused tyre. I've just got hold of a pair of P-Zero Race TLRs to try. I'm hoping they will add a bit of speed and still provide reasonable puncture protection, even if the sealant needs to do a bit of work occasionally.
Yes, I understand that the current VGuard puncture resistant belt under the tread is better than the older Microskin construction, and that they’ve also gone to better sidewall durability, but there are several versions of One/Pro One in each generation, now including tube-type only, so it’s important to be aware of which models are being compared. For example, the first One and the first Pro One had One Star tread compound, then it went to Addix, and now there is a new, multi-compound Addix on a new “turn up” construction called Souplesse. I still don’t understand what Super Race, a term Schwalbe has used, means in all this; it’s very confusing, IMO as a consumer, and I honestly don’t think anyone outside of Schwalbe really understands the permutations. I’ve not seen any “evolutionary tree” of One/Pro One, anyway, and I’ve looked at a lot of sales and tech material, as well as reviews and press releases.

In any case, besides tire performance differences being quite small generally, and certainly very specific to the rider and conditions, I don’t sweat the tech details so much and just enjoy trying different tires, selecting favorites based on subjective performance evaluations and feel. I don’t measure stuff like watts at speed, nor do I care about luck factors like punctures, but if a tire feels good to ride, sticks when I ask it to, behaves predictably and inspires confidence, I’m all good.

Pro One has been a fave in that regard, marginally better than IRC Formula Pro and Hutchinson Galactik 11-Storm, which are also quite nice tubeless tires. In all honesty, though, I’ve been buying high enough up the quality ladder the past 15 years that I’ve not had a truly terrible tire since the Maxxis Detonator of the early ‘00s. Well, maybe the Michelin Pro 3 Endurance around ‘08 - ‘10 was nothing to write home about either…
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Old 06-20-21, 11:34 AM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
The inherent and imo fallacious assumption in the bolded statement seem to be that all tyres puncture equally often. They dont. The need for TL - with sealant - is in reality brought about by the insisting on riding paper thin race day tyres all the time and exposing you to endless flats unless some kind of action is taken. Id argue, as I have for a long time, that choosing a tyre better fit for purpose is much less hassle and less expense, in most cases.
Frankly, I think cleaning off sealant spray, whenever it happens, is faster and easier than changing a tire, whenever that happens. No need for assumptions about frequency there.

And let’s be frank about another thing: there is no need, per se, for tubeless. It’s a desire for the best feeling, best handling, and fastest tire that drives tubeless adoption. That’s the purpose of my road tires. If the purpose was to avoid flats, that’d pretty much ruin my riding experience; I’ve been on the road since ‘85, BTDT, and it sucks. And I still got flats.

Sure, there are tradeoffs to be made between performance, feel, and durability, but I’d make the point that tubeless is probably the best balance for riders who care about maximizing those elements.
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Old 06-20-21, 02:00 PM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Oh okay. Another reason to run disc brakes then.
Maybe.

Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
PeteHski ... wow. I didn't really think people gave a ***** about a little spray on their bikes. But I guess it's a thing. I'm lookin at you now tomato coupe ;-)
It's not just about appearance; it tends to gum things up when it gets into the nooks and crannies.

Plus, the time it takes me too wipe/rinse off that spray will likely be less than the time it didn't take to change a tube - OR getting the grease off my fingers and chain stay from pulling/reinstalling a rear wheel.
You don't have to touch the chain to remove a rear wheel.
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Old 06-20-21, 09:31 PM
  #159  
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One tip: I've been using Scotch 8898 tape on my wheels for several years. It's $8-$12 for 60 yards of the stuff online, which is about a 1/10th the cost of Stan's tape. I think Stan's tape is just rebranded 8898, it's the same as far as I can tell. You can get 8898 in a wide variety of widths, the 1" (25mm) variety fits the Enve SES 4.5 AR wheels on my gravel race bike perfectly and the 18mm version fits my road bike perfectly. It also splits cleanly: you can buy a wider tape, nick it to the width you need and it will peel off straight and cleanly at that width. I've used some 45mm tape to seal my (30mm internal) MTB wheels that way.
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Old 06-22-21, 06:40 PM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
PeteHski ... wow. I didn't really think people gave a ***** about a little spray on their bikes. But I guess it's a thing. I'm lookin at you now tomato coupe ;-)

Come on guys. We supposed to be athletes. These are supposed to be tools of our sport. Plus, the time it takes me too wipe/rinse off that spray will likely be less than the time it didn't take to change a tube - OR getting the grease off my fingers and chain stay from pulling/reinstalling a rear wheel.

Maybe it's my BMX, then MTB background and now gravel riding that's set a different level of acceptable use/abuse for the bikes. You could draw blood on the rough pits/scratches on my gravel bike's crank arms. Hell, even the seat tube is pitted from rocks hitting it. But you know what... it's just a bike.
No, the stuff made a mess, sealant got everywhere. Aside form that, I like a clean (road) bike, I've got a little ADD about it. I'm OK with my mixed-terrain bike being dirty, but not my road bike.

Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Do you? I think you *imagine* the tires were crap, because you’re talking about a tire that debuted at the world tour level back in ‘12 or ‘13 (as the One), and can still be found there today (e.g. under Team Canyon/SRAM). Do you really believe top level pro teams use crap?! Teams which have hundreds of thousands of dollars and careers on the line are less discriminating than you, who is all in for a couple hundred $ max? C’mon, dude.

It would be smarter to acknowledge that the Pro One was not the right tire for your application, or that you simply had a run of bad luck.
Well it's not like I wrote that someone's kids were ugly, I just wrote that those tires were crap, and they were, at least to me. On that note, I like (and own several ) Trek bikes with Sram components. I'd be wealthy if I had a nickel for every "junk", "garbage", "crap" etc. comment about those two brands here on BF. So it's just a matter of personal experience & opinion.
FWIW, I loved the way that those tires rolled, I was definitely fast on them, but at least the one's that I had were junk, garbage, crap.
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Old 06-23-21, 06:30 AM
  #161  
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Update:
Pirelli Velos arrived. Got both tires done(mounted, seated, and filled with sealant) in 15 mins total. Couldn’t have been easier.
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Old 06-23-21, 11:16 AM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by GBK233 View Post
Update:
Pirelli Velos arrived. Got both tires done(mounted, seated, and filled with sealant) in 15 mins total. Couldn’t have been easier.
Cool. Which version did you get? The Cinturato or the P-Zero Race?
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Old 06-23-21, 11:26 AM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Cool. Which version did you get? The Cinturato or the P-Zero Race?
cinturato
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Old 06-23-21, 06:51 PM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
It's usually those who don't actually run tubeless tyres but like to list reasons why they think it's a rubbish idea. I too come from an mtb background and struggle a bit with this apparent roadie obsession with having a surgically clean bike and kit. I keep my drivetrain in top condition, but the rest can just take care of itself.
Tried them, didn't like them, went back to tubes. Just my preference.

And my bike could really use a good cleaning.
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Old 06-23-21, 06:57 PM
  #165  
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1st ride on Pirellis today. 10 miles. Averaged 19.5mph. 75psi front/80psi rear. (I weigh 200lbs).

Seemed to roll super smooth in comparison to the Gavias.

Side note: After dismounting the Gavias, I noticed that the beads had a lot of gummed up sealant on them. Don’t know if that is normal or maybe the cause of why they wouldn’t stay seated when tires were deflated,
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Old 06-24-21, 09:25 AM
  #166  
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If that happened during the initial mounting, that is fine, especially if the rim bead was clean too. If you mounted them a second time, all the dried sealant needs to be cleaned out of tire bead and rim bead. Otherwise you could run into sealing problems,
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Old 06-24-21, 12:43 PM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by GBK233 View Post
1st ride on Pirellis today. 10 miles. Averaged 19.5mph. 75psi front/80psi rear. (I weigh 200lbs).

Seemed to roll super smooth in comparison to the Gavias.
I’m a little lighter at around 180 lbs and been running Cinturatos at 65/70 psi. But mine are 32c. Are you on 28c?

I think they are an excellent all-round tyre. I’m looking forward to trying the P-Zeros I have sitting on the shelf. Be interesting to see if they are significantly quicker on “real” UK roads full of potholes and rough surfacing.
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Old 06-24-21, 12:46 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
I’m a little lighter at around 180 lbs and been running Cinturatos at 65/70 psi. But mine are 32c. Are you on 28c?

I think they are an excellent all-round tyre. I’m looking forward to trying the P-Zeros I have sitting on the shelf. Be interesting to see if they are significantly quicker on “real” UK roads full of potholes and rough surfacing.
Mine are 32c
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Old 06-24-21, 01:08 PM
  #169  
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Originally Posted by GBK233 View Post
Mine are 32c
In that case don't be afraid to experiment with a little less pressure. I find 80 psi on the rear a bit harsh, but mainly because of our rough roads. 70 psi seems to be the sweet spot for me on these tyres. On the front I can go 5 psi less, but I don't like them too soft when climbing out of the saddle.
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Old 06-24-21, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
In that case don't be afraid to experiment with a little less pressure. I find 80 psi on the rear a bit harsh, but mainly because of our rough roads. 70 psi seems to be the sweet spot for me on these tyres. On the front I can go 5 psi less, but I don't like them too soft when climbing out of the saddle.
my roads aren’t rough…aside from the occasional pothole on the shoulder. I do sometimes worry that lower pressure will risk bent rims. I’ve run my Gavias at 70psi in the front and 80psi in the rear.
Will drop pressure before today’s ride to 70/75 and see it feels
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Old 06-24-21, 01:19 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by GBK233 View Post
my roads aren’t rough…aside from the occasional pothole on the shoulder. I do sometimes worry that lower pressure will risk bent rims. I’ve run my Gavias at 70psi in the front and 80psi in the rear.
Will drop pressure before today’s ride to 70/75 and see it feels
What's the internal width of the Gavia wheels and how much do you weigh? I have 23mm wide (internal) rims, weigh a little over 180 and run my 28s at ~58f/62r psi - no squirm out of the saddle or when cornering or anything like that.
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Old 06-24-21, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
What's the internal width of the Gavia wheels and how much do you weigh? I have 23mm wide (internal) rims, weigh a little over 180 and run my 28s at ~58f/62r psi - no squirm out of the saddle or when cornering or anything like that.
giant P-R2 wheels are 17.6mm internal width
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Old 06-24-21, 01:23 PM
  #173  
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Originally Posted by GBK233 View Post
giant P-R2 wheels are 17.6mm internal width
Ah. Yeah, that'll make a difference.
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Old 06-24-21, 01:24 PM
  #174  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Ah. Yeah, that'll make a difference.
Meaning what?
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Old 06-24-21, 01:28 PM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by GBK233 View Post
Meaning what?
~17mm is relatively narrow by modern standards and a given tire will have less volume when mounted on rims of that width vs something like a 19mm or 21mm; that lower volume will necessitate higher pressure for a few reasons.
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