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Shimano Ultegra 11 Chain

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Shimano Ultegra 11 Chain

Old 06-18-21, 02:43 PM
  #51  
Greatestalltime
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir View Post
Supposedly the chamfers on the surfaces of the outer link plates are slightly different, such that the interior facing outer link plates are optimized for downshifts on a Shimano cassette (i.e., moving from a physically smaller to a bigger cog), whereas the exterior facing outer link plates are optimized for upshifts on a Shimano chain ring (i.e., from the smaller to the bigger). I only learned this a few months ago when I installed my Ultegra chain (CN-HG701) because it did not matter with my prior generation 105 chain (CN-HG600). Some do not believe this and claim that it is an elaborate hoax by Shimano to have its logo facing the right. If that is the case the hoax must be targeted at those with much better eyesight than me.
Yeah. After my mistake I looked it up. Not too smart never reading the directions. I guess I learned. It likely has 1k miles on it.

Some say not to reuse the quick link so Iíll likely buy a new one and switch it around.

Thanks to all of you for pointing it out. Iíve changed quite a few of these and maybe got lucky on some, but not on this one.

My chain was recently jumping past a cog. Adjusted the rear mech, but I wonder if the chain being wrong contributed.
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Old 06-18-21, 03:21 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Greatestalltime View Post
Yeah. After my mistake I looked it up. Not too smart never reading the directions. I guess I learned. It likely has 1k miles on it.

Some say not to reuse the quick link so Iíll likely buy a new one and switch it around.

Thanks to all of you for pointing it out. Iíve changed quite a few of these and maybe got lucky on some, but not on this one.

My chain was recently jumping past a cog. Adjusted the rear mech, but I wonder if the chain being wrong contributed.
Sorry, putting the chain back on in the correct orientation may shave you 0.1s on the two shifts I described, and help you comply with Velominati Rule #65 (re: chain noise), but I highly doubt doing so would solve the problem of jumping a cog, which sounds more likely due to a bent hanger or an issue with RD settings, assuming that you are not running a mixed cassette (i.e., a cassette built from multiple donor cassettes).
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Old 06-18-21, 03:26 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
I respect the discourse but the clarification I would like to make is I have nothing but respect for the local bike shops as well as the distributors. My concern is with how the manufacturers can allow these back doors to exist and our businesses suffer while others are unfairly benefiting.
That's how business is done in Asia. Even the biggest companies in the world (think $100B+ in sales) still will do special deals if someone shows up with a suitcase of money and they have a relationship with someone who can make it happen. Seen it happen all the time over decades especially at month end. I doubt it will ever change and I can't imagine Shimano is any different. I agree, it's infuriating but doubtful it will change anytime soon.

On factory lube - friction facts looked at that a while ago and found that factory lube is not great. It's primary purpose is to protect the shelf life of the chain and prevent oxidation of the metals while at the same time providing lubrication. If you want the slickest running chain, clean it off and lube with top end lube with the wax based ones being best - which also means you really have to clean that chain because the oils in the OEM lube coating is not compatible with waxes.

Oh, and Competitive Cyclist has Shimano DA chains now for $52. I just bought one.
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Old 06-18-21, 03:44 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
That's how business is done in Asia. Even the biggest companies in the world (think $100B+ in sales) still will do special deals if someone shows up with a suitcase of money and they have a relationship with someone who can make it happen. Seen it happen all the time over decades especially at month end. I doubt it will ever change and I can't imagine Shimano is any different. I agree, it's infuriating but doubtful it will change anytime soon.
It is not so much the company or even the factory doing a "special deal." Rather, like you said, these "special deals" are done through a connection with someone at the factory, sometimes even a relatively mid to low level supervisor or shift manager, for goods that are produced but not included as part of the official output or capacity of the factory.

Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
On factory lube - friction facts looked at that a while ago and found that factory lube is not great. It's primary purpose is to protect the shelf life of the chain and prevent oxidation of the metals while at the same time providing lubrication. If you want the slickest running chain, clean it off and lube with top end lube with the wax based ones being best - which also means you really have to clean that chain because the oils in the OEM lube coating is not compatible with waxes.
True, but a cleaning sufficiently thorough for wax application is just too much work.

Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
Oh, and Competitive Cyclist has Shimano DA chains now for $52. I just bought one.
Good find! I guess if the Ultegra chains are all out one can pony up an extra $10 to $12 for a Dura-Ace chain.
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Old 06-18-21, 03:55 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir View Post
True, but a cleaning sufficiently thorough for wax application is just too much work.
.
I had bought the Friction Facts reports a few years ago so I went and dug them out. Here's what Friction Facts said about factory lubes:

The efficiency of factory lubes varies greatly. Test results show some factory lubes have the highest frictional losses of any chain lube Friction Facts has ever tested, aftermarket or otherwise. Additionally, test results show that no factory lube is as efficient as the top performing aftermarket lubes.
Their purpose is not to provide a slick chain, but to protect the chain from factory to install through shelf life. That's why the OEM lube is so sticky and thick.

The wax based lubes did the best but almost as good as those were some top oil based with PTFE lubes like Rock n Roll and some others. As FF says, pretty much any of the top lubes are better than the OEM. It's simply matter to do a quick clean of the chain on the bike and add something slicker. So I'd take that heavy OEM "lube" off as much as I could. So it doesn't have to be wax and it's better to take off the OEM lube because OEM lube is pretty bad.

But I get it - chain cleaning and lubing is not high on my list of fun things to do either.
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Old 06-19-21, 10:30 AM
  #56  
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I, too, cannot find a replacement chain for my Shimano 11-speed chain. I was talking with the guy in a local bike shop and I asked him why are chains hard to get. I can get just about anything else I want rather easily, yet chains seem impossible to get. I would imagine chains to be manufactured with a minimum of human input much as the steel used for them is made in fully automated steel plants. So where is the bottleneck in chain production? It's not as if this is a high demand product. I'm sure there are good explanations for the shortage, but you would think that in the modern world folks might be able to figure out how to maintain production levels despite the pandemic.
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Old 06-19-21, 11:08 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by jackb View Post
I, too, cannot find a replacement chain for my Shimano 11-speed chain. I was talking with the guy in a local bike shop and I asked him why are chains hard to get. I can get just about anything else I want rather easily, yet chains seem impossible to get. I would imagine chains to be manufactured with a minimum of human input much as the steel used for them is made in fully automated steel plants. So where is the bottleneck in chain production? It's not as if this is a high demand product. I'm sure there are good explanations for the shortage, but you would think that in the modern world folks might be able to figure out how to maintain production levels despite the pandemic.
Just bought two of these. $52 each - Shimano DA 11 speed chain.

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/s...NDYXQxMDA0Njg=

And with this stuff, it's less the manufacturing than it is the supply of raw materials on a consistent enough basis to maintain production. It's the labor intensive steps upstream not the actual automated manufacturing.
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Old 06-19-21, 11:21 AM
  #58  
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JohnJ80,

Thanks for the info and tip. I just bought the Dura-Ace chain.
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Old 06-19-21, 12:26 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by jackb View Post
I, too, cannot find a replacement chain for my Shimano 11-speed chain. I was talking with the guy in a local bike shop and I asked him why are chains hard to get. I can get just about anything else I want rather easily, yet chains seem impossible to get. I would imagine chains to be manufactured with a minimum of human input much as the steel used for them is made in fully automated steel plants. So where is the bottleneck in chain production? It's not as if this is a high demand product. I'm sure there are good explanations for the shortage, but you would think that in the modern world folks might be able to figure out how to maintain production levels despite the pandemic.
Just look at this thread.. people buying chains 2 at a time, linking available product at Competitive Cyclist, which has readers frenzy buying that stock out, etc. It's the same as toilet paper availability a year ago.
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Old 06-19-21, 02:53 PM
  #60  
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Photographs of box that current chain came in (left) and new spare chain (right). Both times I purchased 116L version but got 126L version instead.
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Old 06-19-21, 03:22 PM
  #61  
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You mean there's another component manufacturer besides Campagnolo???

In all seriousness, if cycling is a big part of your life and you aren't hoarding consumables, I don't know what to tell you.
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Old 06-19-21, 06:27 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
So I'd take that heavy OEM "lube" off as much as I could. So it doesn't have to be wax and it's better to take off the OEM lube because OEM lube is pretty bad.

But I get it - chain cleaning and lubing is not high on my list of fun things to do either.
As the first step of my annual bike wash earlier this afternoon, I cleaned my chain, which has just < 300 miles with the Shimano factory lube. About 5 minutes through a Park Tool CM-5.2 chain scrubber filled with degreaser, then further cleaned with degreaser using an old Sonicare toothbrush. Chain looks clean and shiny and barely leaves a mark on the rag, but I can still "feel" the factory lube in the roller. This is about the best I can do with the chain still on the bike. In the past, when I have gone through the same steps to clean a higher mileage chain that has gone through multiple periodic applications of Boeshield T-9 or Rock N Roll Extreme, the chain would squeak when it is very clean. So hopefully the solvent in the new lube takes off the remaining factory lube when I apply it later.

Last edited by SoSmellyAir; 06-19-21 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 06-19-21, 07:48 PM
  #63  
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I think a big part of the supply problem is shipping containers piling up in the US, and drying up in Asia. Oh, and the whole just in time model, which is anything but resilient.
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Old 06-20-21, 04:05 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Just look at this thread.. people buying chains 2 at a time, linking available product at Competitive Cyclist, which has readers frenzy buying that stock out, etc. It's the same as toilet paper availability a year ago.
Not to mention guns and ammo, whenever ppl get scared a ban is coming ... :-)
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Old 06-20-21, 07:09 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir View Post
As the first step of my annual bike wash earlier this afternoon, I cleaned my chain, which has just < 300 miles with the Shimano factory lube. About 5 minutes through a Park Tool CM-5.2 chain scrubber filled with degreaser, then further cleaned with degreaser using an old Sonicare toothbrush. Chain looks clean and shiny and barely leaves a mark on the rag, but I can still "feel" the factory lube in the roller. This is about the best I can do with the chain still on the bike. In the past, when I have gone through the same steps to clean a higher mileage chain that has gone through multiple periodic applications of Boeshield T-9 or Rock N Roll Extreme, the chain would squeak when it is very clean. So hopefully the solvent in the new lube takes off the remaining factory lube when I apply it later.
. Poertner and crew have (typically) studied the heck out of the whole thing after they came up with a wax based lube. Iíve done this to my last chain and Iíve also gone the ultrasonic route. This manual cleaning method worked pretty well but ultrasonic was better. Either way, it was clean enough that the chain accepted and retained the wax based lube (Silcaís lube is terrific). Itís pretty easy and it does get the chain really clean.

If you are not using a wax based lube, oil compatible lubes will just infuse the remaining OEM lube and still be better. Another quick lube after maybe 100 miles will help accelerate the process.
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Old 06-20-21, 08:11 AM
  #66  
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From KMC:

Cleaning

A new chain usually feels sticky at first. These are residues of the high-performance grease used during assembly. Remove this grease with a thin-bodied oil or cleaner (no aggressive grease solvents!), lightly oil the rollers and remove excess oil with a cloth.

We recommend never to degrease the chain completely. Also when changing to wax, we recommend to degrease the chain only on the outside. If you degrease the chain completely, we recommend to soak the chain in wax for 12–24 hours, so that this can penetrate into the inside of the chain.

Attention!
  • Never use acidic or alkaline cleaners (rust remover). These will damage the chain and in extreme cases can lead to breakage.
  • Never use aggressive degreasers - these will loosen the factory applied grease from the pins. This allows dirt to penetrate and drastically reduces the service life of your chain! Furthermore, these agents are harmful to the environment.
  • Chain cleaners also often contain solvents that can damage your chain.
  • Clean the chain with a dry cloth.
  • Important: also clean the sprockets, chainrings and shifting rollers.
  • To remove dirt or sand, use a brush.
  • If the chain is very dirty, lukewarm water with detergent or a cloth soaked in thin oil will help.
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Old 06-20-21, 09:21 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Jack Tone View Post
From KMC:

Cleaning

A new chain usually feels sticky at first. These are residues of the high-performance grease used during assembly. Remove this grease with a thin-bodied oil or cleaner (no aggressive grease solvents!), lightly oil the rollers and remove excess oil with a cloth.

We recommend never to degrease the chain completely. Also when changing to wax, we recommend to degrease the chain only on the outside. If you degrease the chain completely, we recommend to soak the chain in wax for 12Ė24 hours, so that this can penetrate into the inside of the chain.

Attention!
  • Never use acidic or alkaline cleaners (rust remover). These will damage the chain and in extreme cases can lead to breakage.
  • Never use aggressive degreasers - these will loosen the factory applied grease from the pins. This allows dirt to penetrate and drastically reduces the service life of your chain! Furthermore, these agents are harmful to the environment.
  • Chain cleaners also often contain solvents that can damage your chain.
  • Clean the chain with a dry cloth.
  • Important: also clean the sprockets, chainrings and shifting rollers.
  • To remove dirt or sand, use a brush.
  • If the chain is very dirty, lukewarm water with detergent or a cloth soaked in thin oil will help.
well, thatís fairly nonsensical. If you donít remove the grease from the inside of the chain you will *never* get the wax to penetrate and adhere. The grease will repel the wax. Grease on the outside of the chain performs no function in terms of lubrication.

I can tell you this - using oil based lubes, Iíd get a chain to last about 2000 miles. With wax - at least the Silca lube I use -, Iím currently at 4500 and the chain is only half worn according to my KMC digital chain checker. I think the wax based lube is a better lubricant and I also think the oil based lines attract and retain road grit which leads to higher chain wear
through internal abrasion.

Using the Silca lube is less work than with oil based lubes. You have to clean the chain more thoroughly at the initial installation, but re-lube every 300 miles compare to 200 with oil based lubes. But most of all, I was surprised at how much better the chain runs. The decrease in wear is clear evidence itís a better lube.

Itís almost cringe worthy when riding down bike paths, so many really nice bikes go by with chains so dry they squeak. As an engineer, that drives me nuts to the point where I almost want to ask if I could live their chain for them. I think this is the scenario that KMC and other chain manufacturers are addressing with their ďdonít remove the greaseĒ advice. Theyíre a lot more concerned with a durable lubricant for users who never lube their chain than they are with friction losses.

From my perspective, anyone buying an expensive high end chain should be more concerned with proper maintenance and low friction otherwise there is no point in buying a top quality chain.

Last edited by JohnJ80; 06-20-21 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 06-21-21, 08:30 AM
  #68  
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The genuine DA is on the left. Counterfeit on right

DA left Counterfeit right
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Old 06-21-21, 08:34 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Pacelineg View Post
Do you happen to have photos of both to compare the real vs counterfeit? I'd like to see what to look out for.
I posted pics above
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Old 07-01-21, 04:57 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Greatestalltime View Post
I posted pics above
That's a great help! Thanks!!
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Old 08-02-21, 11:01 AM
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I went ahead and ordered a "Dura Ace" chain from China for $15.00. Knowing full well it was fake, curiosity got the best of me.

Here's some photos to add to this great thread. Ignore the fact that I was suppose to receive a 901(hollow pin) chain but instead

received a 701 (solid pin) chain. I pulled a real 701 I had to compare to this fake one.












*** Notice the CN-HG901 stamped into the link on this solid pin fake Shimano chain.



Last edited by Pacelineg; 08-02-21 at 11:36 AM.
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