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Originally Posted by As You Like It
I truly belive that a lot of SUV drivers have absolutely no concept of how very much space their car/truck monsters take up.
Most SUV drivers only drove regular cars up until they had an SUV. They never had to drive a pickup for towing or a minivan for kid hauling. They never drove a real Jeep offroad. Very likely they never even had to drive a 1970s sedan, from when advertising copy touted how much larger the current year's model was from the previous. Suddenly, they're 35 with three kids and feel that they are not nearly dorky enough to pop for that Volvo, so they get the Ford Explorer instead. Then they have to learn a brand new style of driving, because their new, huge vehicle is taller, longer, and wider than what they're used to, and is an entirely different beast from the sedan or station wagon they really ought to be driving. A lot of people seriously mis-judge their placement when they drive a tall vehicle, many people don't understand how much more space a big, heavy vehicle needs for stopping, and most people don't have any clue as to how clumsily SUVs handle, especially at speed. I agree that there are a lot of "Raaaar, I own the road" jerks out there, but I think there are probably a lot more SUV drivers who are just not very good drivers anyhow, who think it is cool to drive a BIGA$$ TRUCK, when it really is way too much vehicle for them. When I was finishing up at college, I was in the midst of moving from my first apartment, and my dad let me drive his 1979 International Scout for a weekend, because I could pack way more into it than I could my 1959 VW Beetle. It just about scared me to death driving that behemoth of a Scout (which was a precurser to today's SUVS). I had a crazy difficult time telling how much of a lane of highway I was taking up--it felt like the truck filled up the whole road. Left front corner looked like it was hanging over the center lane, right front looked like it was about to drop off the road. I drove that thing like a timorous granny because I could hardly judge where I was with it, and I really didn't want to end up having or causing a wreck. I think maybe a lot of novice SUV drivers experience this, but instead of being freaked out by it, like I was, they think it feels pretty tough and hardcore, like being a tank driver or something. It still boils down to driving something they can't really handle, and probably being more enthusiastic about it than they really ought to be. I think this is hitting the nail on the head... along with females not really knowing where their vehicle "edges" are in the first place... put a giant SUV in their hands and they think they see more road, but have no concept of the actual space they "command." |
Alot of people are getting confused because we are talkng about a group of people and not all people in the group are like this. I know you have to carful with these types of statements. It's one of the same logic mistakes that racists use. But one should not be blind to trends and one should try to analyze their cause. The golden rule for not taking it too far is that you should try to see the big picture but at the same time judge each person individually.
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"Why do I want a SUV? More space, more capacity(dog, bikes, etc)."
Sorry to disaggree, but station wagons have much more interior space than most SUVS, get better mileage, have room for bikes, etc.... |
Originally Posted by shimanopower
Alot of people are getting confused because we are talkng about a group of people and not all people in the group are like this. ....
but at the same time judge each person individually. Vehicle choice in a given enviroment tells a lot about personality. For example young (and older) males driving jacked up pickups in urban areas have not chosen this vehicle because they want to be safe and safe to others. It is clearly about image, specifically the image of being the tough alpha male who is not going to let anyone get in their way. Everyone has the choice if to use a cell phone while driving. Age is a good predictor of driving skill/accident rate - the insurance companies use this to set rates. A young driver on a cell phone is a good predictor of someone who is not fully aware of surrounds or best prepared to react to a rapid changing situation and doesn't have the experience to know these things happen. Yes all the above are in many ways sterotypes and not eveyone in these age groups, who makes these vehicle choices fits, but if you want to make predictions of behaviors, these are good starting points. Al |
Originally Posted by jlin453
Why do I want a SUV? More space, more capacity(dog, bikes, etc).
1. They have not much usable room due to the high floors 2. They are trucks, which means they are built to lower safety standards that passenger cars, parents who place kids in these unstoppable and flippable second-rate quality vehicles are irresponsible. 3. They are the highest profit vehicles made in US, for reason #2. 4. Despite the commercials, they have typical passenger car suspensions and are not warrantied for off-road. 5. They are the most common vehicles seen in ditches after snowstorms up here. 6. You are 2.5X more likely to get into an accident with an SUV, hence the high insurance. 7. For all reasons above, they are a hazard to all other drivers on the road. 8. They make parking impossible, for the owners, and the others around them. I'm always surprised to a cyclist proud of owning an object that is about cheap fashion, consumption, pollution and everything cycling does not stand for. Gas prices will NOT affect SUV sales, these people would rather feed their kids dogfood than lose their perceived road status. At 2X gas prices in Canada, we have thousands of suburban rednecks who cannot afford these vehicles commuting hours to work (the 10% generation). We now have the poorest air in North America in southern Ontario. You know what an SUV is good for? Driving kids to the Asthma doctor. A psych student here wrote a great paper about her precise observations in the large university employee parking lot: the lower the education level and job status, the larger the vehicle driven. |
Originally Posted by puddin' legs
"Why do I want a SUV? More space, more capacity(dog, bikes, etc)."
Sorry to disaggree, but station wagons have much more interior space than most SUVS, get better mileage, have room for bikes, etc.... |
Anecdotal evidence; draw your own conclusions:
My folks own a place up in Tahoe City. You know what is by far the most popular car among the year-round residents up there? The Subaru Outback station wagon. Probably followed by older model 4x4s like K5 Blazers and such. And Audi sedans and wagons. If you see someone in Tahoe driving a Chevy Tahoe, chances are it's a tourist from the Bay Area. |
Originally Posted by Crank It Up
I've made a bundle investing in big oil/energy companies.
So how did you make out with that Enron stock? ;) |
Originally Posted by TexasGuy
How many good looking station wagons are there though :p I honestly can't name any though maybe Subaru makes one. I personally like vehicles the size of the Rav4/ Trail Blazer. Nice compact, great mileage, both come from reliable companies, great resale value
And:
Originally Posted by DocRay
SUVs are about fashion and visible consumption, don't BS us, if you are buying a SUV, you are like the typical owner: ignorant, self-centered consumer with little regard for the world or even your community:
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Originally Posted by TexasGuy
How many good looking station wagons are there though :p I honestly can't name any though maybe Subaru makes one. I personally like vehicles the size of the Rav4/ Trail Blazer. Nice compact, great mileage, both come from reliable companies, great resale value
Will I run out and buy one? Probably not. |
Hahaha Dodge
*falls over laughing*
Originally Posted by DocRay
SUVs are about fashion and visible consumption, don't BS us, if you are buying a SUV, you are like the typical owner: ignorant, self-centered consumer with little regard for the world or even your community:
or what about my Dad who has driven nearly 1 million miles and has never once gotten a speeding ticket and owns a Tahoe and a Rav4. I mean seriously, that's even worse then all the "all SUVs are evil" people |
Maybe us Texans are just better drivers. ;)
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Originally Posted by TexasGuy
Hahaha Dodge
*falls over laughing* |
Saab, Audi, VW, Volvo.... Aside from Subaru, Honda and Toyota do a whole lines of great 4WD wagons (small, medium, large) that aren't imported into the US. Too bad, they're amazing cars and all are more comfortable to sleep in and store more gear than most SUVs. When gas hits $3.50, Detroit will yet again be scrambling for product behind the ever rolling 8 ball of human progress while whining about unfair trade, rules, labor, etc...even while owning large shares in their "competitors".
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And what is this talk about "why some people NEED SUV's"
Who NEEDS a XXX hp Viper? Who NEEDS a XXX hp Corvette? Who NEEDS to buy a 4x4 when they never go off roading? Really, who are we to criticize others for their choice of vehicles? And GAS? If you're going to become a tree hugger, go yell at everyone to buy hybrid cars. |
That statement from the canadien was out of line. (Anyone for some tree hugging?)
I do not own an SUV but I am smart enough to not be THAT narrow minded about them. I do agree that there are numerous drivers out there who shouldn't be driving them.....(read stereotype: soccermom). Here in Burlington,VT where there are numerous colleges..you would be amazed at the out-of-state-parents-paying-for-college-while-I-drive-the-new-SUV kids around here. Everyone of them...on the damn phone.. |
There is no real need for an SUV.
-If you need to tow something or just carry a bunch of stuff, a pickup does it better. -If you need to carry passengers or haul large amounts of stuff out of the elements, either a van or a wagon will do better. A RWD van can tow as much or more than most SUVs. -If you need 4WD in winter, an all whell drive car is much more stable and a front wheel drive car with winter tires will out drive both a 4WD or an AWD with all-seasons. -If you are concerned about safety, SUVs are prone to rollovers and their large mass can cause the roof to fail that way. Most midsize cars are safer in crash tests than SUVs. Older Ford Explorers, Chevy Blazers, and Ford 150s are all cars that are deemed poor. SUVs that are built on frames don't crumple the way a unitized car does and will transmit more of the force of an accident to the occupents. |
Thought this was funny and relevant:
Fred J. Schaafsma, a top engineer for General Motors, says, "Sport-utility owners tend to be more like 'I wonder how people view me,' and are more willing to trade off flexibility or functionality to get that." According to Bradsher, internal industry market research concluded that S.U.V.s tend to be bought by people who are insecure, vain, self-centered, and self-absorbed, who are frequently nervous about their marriages, and who lack confidence in their driving skills. Ford's S.U.V. designers took their cues from seeing "fashionably dressed women wearing hiking boots or even work boots while walking through expensive malls." Toyota's top marketing executive in the United States, Bradsher writes, loves to tell the story of how at a focus group in Los Angeles "an elegant woman in the group said that she needed her full-sized Lexus LX 470 to drive up over the curb and onto lawns to park at large parties in Beverly Hills." One of Ford's senior marketing executives was even blunter: "The only time those S.U.V.s are going to be off-road is when they miss the driveway at 3 a.m." |
The 25-30mpg that the Trail Blazer and the Rav4 - nothing Gas guzzling there. And of course mentioning companies that are known for having price ranges that are ridiculous or mentioning products that are not in the country is of course so helpful :-D
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Originally Posted by jlin453
And what is this talk about "why some people NEED SUV's"
Who NEEDS a XXX hp Viper? Who NEEDS a XXX hp Corvette? Who NEEDS to buy a 4x4 when they never go off roading? Really, who are we to criticize others for their choice of vehicles? And GAS? If you're going to become a tree hugger, go yell at everyone to buy hybrid cars. Oh that's more generalizing aint it - whewps ;) Maybe I should go buy a Rav4 or Trail Blazer just knowing that somewhere I ticked off some zealot who thinks that everybody has to have his/her opinion and anybody else who doesnt is a ____ <insert their term > ____. |
Originally Posted by badcompany9
There is no real need for an SUV.
-If you need to tow something or just carry a bunch of stuff, a pickup does it better. -If you need to carry passengers or haul large amounts of stuff out of the elements, either a van or a wagon will do better. A RWD van can tow as much or more than most SUVs. -If you need 4WD in winter, an all whell drive car is much more stable and a front wheel drive car with winter tires will out drive both a 4WD or an AWD with all-seasons. -If you are concerned about safety, SUVs are prone to rollovers and their large mass can cause the roof to fail that way. Most midsize cars are safer in crash tests than SUVs. Older Ford Explorers, Chevy Blazers, and Ford 150s are all cars that are deemed poor. SUVs that are built on frames don't crumple the way a unitized car does and will transmit more of the force of an accident to the occupents. |
Originally Posted by mirona
Wow! That is so damn stupid! Have you ever heard of a Toyota Land Cruiser? Well I have, because I get to see them up close and personal when the jaggoffs almost run me off the road! You almost succeeded in justifying your SUV purchase... "But Toyotas are flawless! They wouldn't hurt a fly!" Give me a break. SUV drivers should have to get their Class A before they can purchase one.
Suv's have been around for a long time. It's just that in the past couple of years they have surpassed the mini van in popularity. So in another 4 years or so it'll be hybrids, perhaps, that are the popular vehicle. And you'll be here b*tching about how some dumba** in a F***ing hybrid cut you off. Either way you'll always have something to b*tch about. I looked at about 15 different vehicles trying to find something with room enough. It's what I found to be the most functional and reliable. I'm not trying to justify anything to you. I don't know you, so I could give a damn what you think of the general population of SUV drivers and the reason they have one. I was simply letting the "suv" bashers know about the other reasons why people purchase them. |
Yes, then it will be damn zippy electric acceleration. :p
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"And of course mentioning companies that are known for having price ranges that are ridiculous or mentioning products that are not in the country is of course so helpful :-D"
Just letting you know there are other options out there that the N.American market is yet to recognize... Loaded SUV's aren't cheap by any means. Blue book on a 4 year old low mileage Saab 9.5 wagon is about $16,000. New cars are a waste of money when there are nice bikes to buy! |
Originally Posted by badcompany9
There is no real need for an SUV.
-If you need to tow something or just carry a bunch of stuff, a pickup does it better. -If you need to carry passengers or haul large amounts of stuff out of the elements, either a van or a wagon will do better. A RWD van can tow as much or more than most SUVs. -If you need 4WD in winter, an all whell drive car is much more stable and a front wheel drive car with winter tires will out drive both a 4WD or an AWD with all-seasons. -If you are concerned about safety, SUVs are prone to rollovers and their large mass can cause the roof to fail that way. Most midsize cars are safer in crash tests than SUVs. Older Ford Explorers, Chevy Blazers, and Ford 150s are all cars that are deemed poor. SUVs that are built on frames don't crumple the way a unitized car does and will transmit more of the force of an accident to the occupents. |
Originally Posted by badcompany9
There is no real need for an SUV.
-If you need to tow something or just carry a bunch of stuff, a pickup does it better. -If you need to carry passengers or haul large amounts of stuff out of the elements, either a van or a wagon will do better. A RWD van can tow as much or more than most SUVs. -If you need 4WD in winter, an all whell drive car is much more stable and a front wheel drive car with winter tires will out drive both a 4WD or an AWD with all-seasons. -If you are concerned about safety, SUVs are prone to rollovers and their large mass can cause the roof to fail that way. Most midsize cars are safer in crash tests than SUVs. Older Ford Explorers, Chevy Blazers, and Ford 150s are all cars that are deemed poor. SUVs that are built on frames don't crumple the way a unitized car does and will transmit more of the force of an accident to the occupents. |
Originally Posted by puddin' legs
"And of course mentioning companies that are known for having price ranges that are ridiculous or mentioning products that are not in the country is of course so helpful :-D"
Just letting you know there are other options out there that the N.American market is yet to recognize... Loaded SUV's aren't cheap by any means. Blue book on a 4 year old low mileage Saab 9.5 wagon is about $16,000. New cars are a waste of money when there are nice bikes to buy! Would never buy a used vehicle that is not either Chevy, Toyota or Honda. Plain and simply used vehicles are problematic and there are few companies known in the real world for their reliability like the aforementioned. For 18K-25K i can get a brand new reliable Rav 4 or chevy Blazer. Realistic, Brand spanking new, Trouble Free, for a few K more. And when you buy a vehicle that can last a decade+ (our toyota is 3+ and still running) spending a few extra K is nothing. Our Rav is I think 4 years now and has never seen the inside of a mechanics shop and still gets 25mpg which is spot on with its specs |
Originally Posted by fishigan
So instead of having one vehicle that does all of those things, (I have a boat too) I should buy what? 3 or 4 different vehicles? Buy the way, where the hell did you get those assumptions?
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Originally Posted by jlin453
What if you wanted to seat 6 passengers AND tow a boat? :D
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Originally Posted by badcompany9
A rear wheel drive van with a tow hitch. Like a Ford E150 or whatever the Chevy one's called.
Is a van not the same width as a SUV? (Only wrote this because some people actually complained about this) Wouldn't buying a van add to the "soccer mom" image? The 2005 Ford E150: fuel economy city / highway 4.6 Liter Engine: V8 5.4 Liter Engine: V8 4 Speed Automatic w/Overdrive 44A Transmission 15 / 19 13 / 17 4 Speed Automatic w/Overdrive 44F Transmission 15 / 19 13 / 17 |
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