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Le Tour tire wins

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Le Tour tire wins

Old 07-06-21, 06:15 PM
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popeye
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Le Tour tire wins

Tallying it up, in terms of wins, this is how the battle between clinchers, tubeless and tubulars currently stands.
  • Tubulars: 5.5
  • Clinchers: 3
  • Tubeless: 0.5
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Old 07-07-21, 10:37 AM
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Sizes?
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Old 07-07-21, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by popeye View Post
Tallying it up, in terms of wins, this is how the battle between clinchers, tubeless and tubulars currently stands.
  • Tubulars: 5.5
  • Clinchers: 3
  • Tubeless: 0.5
Cool. So what does this tell us?
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Old 07-07-21, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Cool. So what does this tell us?
That if you rode Tufo Tubular Clinchers, you'd have 5.5 + 3 = 8.5 Le Tour wins.
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Old 07-07-21, 01:12 PM
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Old 07-07-21, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Cool. So what does this tell us?
That the OP knows how to cut & paste?
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Old 07-08-21, 07:01 AM
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Good to see them using tubeless now. I remember a couple of years ago when people here were saying that disc brakes were an abomination, had no real benefits, and would never make it. I used to roll my eyes at the ignorance. I suspect tubeless will see more adoption, though tubs still make a lot of sense in races. We just need to develop a sealant that works even better that the current crop (at high road pressures).
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Old 07-08-21, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Chandne View Post
Good to see them using tubeless now. I remember a couple of years ago when people here were saying that disc brakes were an abomination, had no real benefits, and would never make it. I used to roll my eyes at the ignorance. I suspect tubeless will see more adoption, though tubs still make a lot of sense in races. We just need to develop a sealant that works even better that the current crop (at high road pressures).
That stuff is still said. And it is largely still correct depending on user. I dont like the look of a disc brake road bike as much as the look of a rim brake road bike. And I would not benefit from disc brakes on my road bike based on how/where/when I ride it.
My gravel bike has hydraulic disc brakes so I have extensive experience with that style. There is 0 benefit for me to swap my road bikes for disc brake.

Others though? Others may love how the disc brakes look on a road bike and may find the braking to be better for how/were/when they ride.

Saying people are ignorant is pretty harsh when its simply an conclusion based on aesthetic opinion and intended use.
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Old 07-08-21, 07:32 AM
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Who's decision is the tire choice? Is it the team mechanic, the riders or the sponsor? If the teams have multiple offerings within a single sponsor, why would they select one tire type over the other?

As a tubeless (MTB only), track/TT (tubular) and road rider, I choose to ride clinchers on my road bike wheels. Butyl for training, latex for racing.
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Old 07-08-21, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
That stuff is still said. And it is largely still correct depending on user. I dont like the look of a disc brake road bike as much as the look of a rim brake road bike. And I would not benefit from disc brakes on my road bike based on how/where/when I ride it.
My gravel bike has hydraulic disc brakes so I have extensive experience with that style. There is 0 benefit for me to swap my road bikes for disc brake.

Others though? Others may love how the disc brakes look on a road bike and may find the braking to be better for how/were/when they ride.

Saying people are ignorant is pretty harsh when its simply an conclusion based on aesthetic opinion and intended use.

It's the lack of info that is ignorance, and not that everyone is ignorant and must have discs. The same happens with every new development. I saw the same thing with mountain bike tubeless and with carbon mountain bike frames (which are now predominant). Not many care what anyone rides or prefers but to say that discs generally have no benefit or use or are a solution looking for a problem, is just plain ignorance. For me (I have both) I prefer the modulation of discs and their performance in the mountains, by far. When wet, there is little comparison. I also prefer them when riding through any muddy sections where rim brakes get pretty clogged up. My favorite climbing bike does happen to be rim brake but it is becoming a dinosaur, along with rim brake carbon wheels by the major wheel companies. I did order a set of rim-brake Zipps before they go completely extinct. I hope to get them late this month. After this, it is all discs for me as well though I would live to keep my one rim-brake bike going. I also prefer the look of rim-brake bikes as well but that is the only thing I prefer.
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Old 07-08-21, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
That the OP knows how to cut & paste?
Judging from the comments everyone has a different take based on their own prejudices which has extended to brakes. My take is that the supposed take over by tubeless is an illusion. YMMV and will.
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Old 07-08-21, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by popeye View Post
Judging from the comments everyone has a different take based on their own prejudices which has extended to brakes. My take is that the supposed take over by tubeless is an illusion. YMMV and will.
Judging from the comments, I don't think that anyone (besides you) is silly enough to think that this information is any type of commentary on the state of road tires.

Your continued 'doth protest too much' efforts do seem to hint that you're tubeless-curious, though. Don't thrash about and fight it - embrace it. You'll probably get goosebumps when you hear the snap-snap-POP! of your first time seating a tire.

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Old 07-08-21, 10:27 AM
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1. How do you get a half of a stage win?

2. Some teams are so hamstrung by shyte tires that they black out the ones they want to use for time trials at least so the sponsor can't see.

3. What would be the ratio of wins to # of users? I'd bet that would weight the results a bit differently.
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Old 07-08-21, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Chandne View Post
Good to see them using tubeless now. I remember a couple of years ago when people here were saying that disc brakes were an abomination, had no real benefits, and would never make it. I used to roll my eyes at the ignorance. I suspect tubeless will see more adoption, though tubs still make a lot of sense in races. We just need to develop a sealant that works even better that the current crop (at high road pressures).
Just like with brakes, the pros will ride what their sponsors tell them to. If Trek/Spesh wanted to get back into centerpull U brakes, the pros would be riding those next season. Same is true for tires.

For what it's worth (nothing), I prefer the look of forks with a curved rake. Those are only found on rim brakes, so that's my preference.
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Old 07-08-21, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Judging from the comments, I don't think that anyone (besides you) is silly enough to think that this information is any type of commentary on the state of road tires.

Your continued 'doth protest too much' efforts do seem to hint that you're tubeless-curious, though. Don't thrash about and fight it - embrace it. You'll probably get goosebumps when you hear the snap-snap-POP! of your first time seating a tire.

Read again, the OP only referred to the pro peloton with no opinion from me. As for me I don't see me rocking tubeless at any point in my future unless my rides change. Two bikes 8-10K Miles a year with ~ 2 flats a year and I get far enough that I must be self sufficient. Tubeless does not meet my requirements.
As for the disks they don't meet my requirement either. 135 lbs, not to fat for this sport, direct mount D/A calipers, textured CF brake tracks with Black Prince Pads, no rain rides, no steep descents, I know how to brake, never had a problem in the hills but as now all our rides are flat flat flat. Almost 2 yrs on the pads and they don't look worn. So no brake maintenance whatsoever in 2 yrs and reliable. My bike is a total weight weenie build. What I do does not apply to anyone else.
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Old 07-08-21, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by popeye View Post
... the OP only referred to the pro peloton with no opinion from me.
The OP only referred to the winners of a handful of stages in one race. The opinion was implied. Loudly.
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Old 07-08-21, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Chandne View Post
It's the lack of info that is ignorance, and not that everyone is ignorant and must have discs. The same happens with every new development. I saw the same thing with mountain bike tubeless and with carbon mountain bike frames (which are now predominant). Not many care what anyone rides or prefers but to say that discs generally have no benefit or use or are a solution looking for a problem, is just plain ignorance. For me (I have both) I prefer the modulation of discs and their performance in the mountains, by far. When wet, there is little comparison. I also prefer them when riding through any muddy sections where rim brakes get pretty clogged up. My favorite climbing bike does happen to be rim brake but it is becoming a dinosaur, along with rim brake carbon wheels by the major wheel companies. I did order a set of rim-brake Zipps before they go completely extinct. I hope to get them late this month. After this, it is all discs for me as well though I would live to keep my one rim-brake bike going. I also prefer the look of rim-brake bikes as well but that is the only thing I prefer.
You sure? Got stats?
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Old 07-08-21, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by popeye View Post
Read again, the OP only referred to the pro peloton with no opinion from me.
I'm not referring to the OP. I quoted your follow-up -

Originally Posted by popeye View Post
My take is that the supposed take over by tubeless is an illusion.
Originally Posted by popeye View Post
As for me I don't see me blah blah blah...
Yet you take the trouble to look up and/or collect tire information for tour riders, post fearful links about the dangers of tubeless tires affecting spoke tension, etc. For someone so certain that these things are not for you, they're certainly on your mind more than they're on mine, and I'm a tubeless user.
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Old 07-08-21, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Chandne View Post
Good to see them using tubeless now. I remember a couple of years ago when people here were saying that disc brakes were an abomination, had no real benefits, and would never make it. I used to roll my eyes at the ignorance. I suspect tubeless will see more adoption, though tubs still make a lot of sense in races. We just need to develop a sealant that works even better that the current crop (at high road pressures).
I'll take rimmed brakes over disc brakes, thank you. I have my reasons and ignorance isn't the issue.

WRT tires, tubulars behave a lot nicer when getting flat than clinchers or tubeless. If I had my own mechanic, I would ride tubies every day. But, I suffer with clinchers and latex tubes. Fixing tubeless tire on the road is a no go for me. Tried it for a year. No thanks. No ignorance.
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Old 07-08-21, 11:28 AM
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Yeah, I'm sure. Look up how many alloy frames all the well-known manufacturers even make. I'm not talking about $500 mountain bikes from Walmart. Those are junk and no real mountain biker uses them. Look at Specialized, Yeti, Santa Cruz, Pivot, Ibis, Evil, Spot, Intense, Niner, Rocky Mountain, Trek, YT, etc... I am predominantly a mountain biker and I am part of a large group and I ride with other groups/teams. It is rare to ever see an alloy frame, though these are all $5K and up, predominantly. I personally have seen 3-4 this past month. Even Hardtails are going all carbon now. It is a rare racer who uses alloy anymore. A few holdouts use alloy 29ers and even most of them are on short-travel carbon 29ers now. At the Firecracker 50 race last week, I saw TWO alloy 29ers. I am not aware of even one pro who uses an alloy frame. If there is one, he/she is a rare bird.
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Old 07-08-21, 11:35 AM
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Nobody cares what anyone rides but discs are taking over. The ignorance is mostly over...that was from 3-4 years ago when so many here were using the "a solution looking for a problem" line over and over, yet now they are common. Some models don't even make rim brake frames anymore. Again, nobody cares but ya can't stop the innovation and new stuff from taking over slowly. Discs and flared bars are pretty commonplace now, even in the The Tour and locally. Tubeless seems to be going that way too. Ride what you want. Be happy. Nobody is taking away your rim brake bike.
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Old 07-08-21, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Chandne View Post
Nobody cares what anyone rides but discs are taking over. The ignorance is mostly over...that was from 3-4 years ago when so many here were using the "a solution looking for a problem" line over and over, yet now they are common. Some models don't even make rim brake frames anymore. Again, nobody cares but ya can't stop the innovation and new stuff from taking over slowly. Discs and flared bars are pretty commonplace now, even in the The Tour and locally. Tubeless seems to be going that way too. Ride what you want. Be happy. Nobody is taking away your rim brake bike.
Than, stop with the ignorance comments.

It seems rather insulting.
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Old 07-08-21, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Fixing tubeless tire on the road is a no go for me.
I remain perplexed by this common gripe about tubeless. In my experience, the only difference between fixing a tubed clincher and a tubeless clincher is that it might be a little bit messier, but that issue is pretty easy to mitigate, too. Replacing a tube by the side of the road sucks, no matter which kind of tire you're using. Minimizing the frequency of those moments is an easy call for me.
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Old 07-08-21, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
I remain perplexed by this common gripe about tubeless. In my experience, the only difference between fixing a tubed clincher and a tubeless clincher is that it might be a little bit messier, but that issue is pretty easy to mitigate, too. Replacing a tube by the side of the road sucks, no matter which kind of tire you're using. Minimizing the frequency of those moments is an easy call for me.
Try removing a tubeless tire on the side of the road. I have broken levers. Tires are not infrequently unrepairable. I cannot tell you how many cyclists I have passed with tires destroyed. I do carry a spare tire. When I spent a year with tubeless, a repair meant booting, removing the tubeless valve, cleaning the mess, and inserting a tube. Just removing the tubeless tire from the rim was very, very hard. To put it back on, I had to carry a KoolStop tire jack. Oh, the fun. I tried three different rims and two different tubeless tires. I flatted almost every weekend on Schwalbe Pro Ones. A major PITA. No thanks. They were also slow dogs but not as bad as the Specialized tubeless. If you are still perplexed, how about explaining any advantage of tubeless? I rarely get flats. No more frequent than every 3-4,000 miles and sometimes much less frequent.
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Old 07-08-21, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Try removing a tubeless tire on the side of the road. I have broken levers. Tires are not infrequently unrepairable. I cannot tell you how many cyclists I have passed with tires destroyed. I do carry a spare tire. When I spent a year with tubeless, a repair meant booting, removing the tubeless valve, cleaning the mess, and inserting a tube. Just removing the tubeless tire from the rim was very, very hard. To put it back on, I had to carry a KoolStop tire jack. Oh, the fun. I tried three different rims and two different tubeless tires. I flatted almost every weekend on Schwalbe Pro Ones. A major PITA. No thanks. They were also slow dogs but not as bad as the Specialized tubeless. If you are still perplexed, how about explaining any advantage of tubeless? I rarely get flats. No more frequent than every 3-4,000 miles and sometimes much less frequent.
Hmmm...My experience with Conti GP5KTLs has been a single lever was able to pry off the bead on one side, a sidewall slash booted with a dollar bill, the stem removed (not very difficult at all), a tube inserted, the bead put back on with the help of one lever, and the tire re-inflated with a shot of CO2. Not significantly different from how it would have been with the tubed version of the same tire. There was a bit of spillage of sealant, but it wasn't really much of a problem. Not getting a flat every 3-4k miles is enough of an advantage to make tubeless worthwhile for me. From your description, it sounds more like the Schwalbe tires are more of the issue than the fact that they were tubeless. If I had your experience, I might have second thoughts, too. Among the riders I typically roll with (mostly racers and ex-racers), in the past year, there has been 1 ridder who had an issue with his tubeless tire during a group ride. He had a slow leak that wasn't sealing while we were riding. We stopped, he turned his wheel so the sealant pooled in the leak area, he topped it off with a partial shot of CO2, and the group was rolling again, way quicker than if he had to replace a tube. Advantage tubeless.
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