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Rear tire skidding

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Rear tire skidding

Old 07-19-21, 12:48 PM
  #26  
RichSPK
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I agree with most of the other replies. Additionally, don't be afraid to get off the seat and move your weight around to where you need more traction (generally scoot back a little on descents). Back in 1987-ish I did manage to use too much front brake on a long descent and suddenly found myself flying over the handlebars, then saw the bike flying over me. Fortunately, I never repeated that, but I took to shifting my weight rearward on descents, and I've been afraid to add luggage on the front of the bike. I've always used both brakes in all conditions, but I'm conscious of how much pressure I'm using on either brake lever and modulate to suit conditions.

Braking before you turn is good advice on a bike, motorcycle, or in a car. Some people do like to drag the rear brakes a little in a turn to adjust the balance of the vehicle rather than to slow down.
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Old 07-19-21, 01:18 PM
  #27  
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Effective bike handling skills include developing a feel for when and how much of each brake to use in a particular situation.
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Old 07-20-21, 07:22 PM
  #28  
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I rocked a pushie with just a front brake for a while... it was fine like 98% of the times I braked, but that other 2% was scary. Sometimes you need to throw that back wheel out.
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Old 07-20-21, 07:57 PM
  #29  
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Thanks everyone - I've been favoring the front brake and life is much more safe
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Old 07-20-21, 08:17 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Symox View Post
Thanks everyone - I've been favoring the front brake and life is much more safe
You want to be good enough with it that say if you're braking on a turn and it starts to skid, that's not enough to make you drop the bike. Emergency stops should have your back wheel hovering.
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Old 07-20-21, 08:45 PM
  #31  
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I think a lot of peopel on this thread know more than me on this subject, but as a matter of habit, I almost always use both brakes at once for most situations. the balance between front and back then comes from "feel", such that I can't tell you in a given situation that that was 70% front, 30% back - it was both and the relative pressure I was applying is what gave me the feeling of greatest control.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Oh yeah there are also those hard-braking moments - usually something like coming to a sudden stop at an intersection - when the rear wheel lifts off the ground a bit. Those are always fun.
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Old 07-20-21, 08:56 PM
  #32  
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Each tyre only has so much grip; when you're braking you're using up some proportion of that grip, so it's generally best to share the load. And when descending, you have to manage heat buildup too. 70/30 wouldn't be far wrong, but of course it's gonna vary.

If you have rim brakes, you might also want to think about whether you want to spread the rim wear or concentrate it on the front. If your back rim wears out first, you're doing it wrong.

Last edited by Kimmo; 07-20-21 at 09:01 PM.
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Old 07-20-21, 09:22 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
Using both brakes is more ‘effective’ at keeping the front and rear brake wear even. For hard braking or emergency stops though using 100% front is correct. Maybe if you can get enough of your weight behind the saddle you could use a little rear brake but the vast majority of weight will be on the front tire and the braking force available from the rear is small.
Why would you care about keeping brake wear even, of what importance can that possibly have? I would never think using 100% front is correct except for scrubbing some speeds on long steep descents when alternating the brakes to keep temps down. Most actual stopping should be a mix of front and back together so the bike is working optimally and so when you need to panic stop you know how to do so safely with both wheels. The rear might do a lot less of the stopping but the fastest stopping is only possible when both wheels are braking at their limit.

Originally Posted by big john View Post
I use a lot of rear brake, I do a lot of descending and I am a heavier rider. I can't think of many times I have locked the rear wheel, it almost never happens.
While it's true the front provides 70% or more of the stopping power, careful use of the rear on a steep descent can aid in your control and help keep the front from getting too hot. Sometimes when I just want to scrub speed I will alternate front to back.

There is a steep grade I do which is twisty and a bit off camber. I use lots of both brakes on that thing.
Just this.

Originally Posted by Symox View Post
(especially in a turn) my rear wheel locks up and I start a short skid.

im using rim brakes and keep my but on the saddle

any tips to avoid the skids?
Avoid these two things. As others have mentioned, speed should be scrubbed before a turn, if you have to brake through one you need to use light pressure on both wheels so you don't lose grip. Braking is a dynamic process, you need to shift your weight or position to allow the brakes to do better. When descending through curves I try not to sit and if you watch a lot of racers the fastest ones are moving on the bike to keep their weight optimized and allow the knees to soak up small bumps so the tires track better. Being crouched on the pedals slightly also lets you respond to the bike under braking better.
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Old 07-20-21, 10:11 PM
  #34  
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In my youth, riding my motorcycle way too fast in the Alps, I found that starting with the a light rear brake to sort of steady the bike and then adding as much front brake as necessary worked best. Testing has shown that under extreme braking on a road bike, using only the front brake gives the fastest stop. My guess is that having one's full attention on only one thing is the trick.

Of course just like on any racing machine, brake before the turn, never during if you can help it.
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Old 07-20-21, 10:36 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth View Post
The rear might do a lot less of the stopping but the fastest stopping is only possible when both wheels are braking at their limit.
The fastest deceleration occurs when the rear wheel begins to lift off the pavement. At that point, the rear brake is useless.
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Old 07-20-21, 10:50 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
The fastest deceleration occurs when the rear wheel begins to lift off the pavement. At that point, the rear brake is useless.
Proof? Cause that sounds like a load of BS to me. If you're rear wheel is off the ground you're doing it wrong. Get your weight back and use both brakes.
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Old 07-20-21, 11:08 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth View Post
Proof? Cause that sounds like a load of BS to me. If you're rear wheel is off the ground you're doing it wrong. Get your weight back and use both brakes.
Go practice some emergency braking in a straight line, on dry pavement. You'll quickly discover that the rear brake is essentially useless in that situation.

A simple force diagram shows that maximum braking force occurs when the rear wheel begins to lift off. I won't waste my time proving something so patently obvious.
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Old 07-20-21, 11:17 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Go practice some emergency braking in a straight line, on dry pavement. You'll quickly discover that the rear brake is essentially useless in that situation.

A simple force diagram shows that maximum braking force occurs when the rear wheel begins to lift off. I won't waste my time proving something so patently obvious.
Done plenty of emergency braking, happen to like my rear brake which has never been useless. Enjoy your view, personally I'll focus on stopping fast when I need to. And again, if your tire is lifting off the ground, you're probably doing it wrong.
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Old 07-20-21, 11:24 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth View Post
Done plenty of emergency braking, happen to like my rear brake which has never been useless. Enjoy your view, personally I'll focus on stopping fast when I need to.
It's not "my view". It's an established fact:

A bike is at maximum deceleration when the rear tire begins to lift off the pavement.

Brake as you wish, but if you claim that using both brakes is the fastest way to stop, you are wrong. Physics says so.
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Old 07-21-21, 12:42 AM
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If you're doing everything you can to get your weight back as far as possible, what happens when you're braking as hard as you can without going over the bars?

The back wheel comes up. A full-blown emergency stop is you balancing the whole bike around the head tube while you hope the fork is up to it and the back wheel is a passenger.

First time this happened to me BITD, it was the second time I had to make an emergency stop with a fancy new dual pivot brake. The first time, I went straight over the bars, and I was totally stoked that now this was a thing I could do.

Hmm, maybe a faceplant is the fastest possible stop?

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Old 07-21-21, 12:44 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Brake as you wish, but if you claim that using both brakes is the fastest way to stop, you are wrong. Physics says so.
It occurs to me that perhaps both brakes can get you quicker to the point the rear brake is useless, but since that happens in a fraction of a second, it's pretty academic.
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Old 07-21-21, 04:18 AM
  #42  
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*make sure your tire is spinning the correct direction
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Old 07-21-21, 04:20 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Greatestalltime View Post
*make sure your tire is spinning the correct direction
Dunno how you ride your bike, but that's always taken care of itself for me
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Old 07-21-21, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Dunno how you ride your bike, but that's always taken care of itself for me
tire is separate from the wheel
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Old 07-21-21, 01:34 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
It's not "my view". It's an established fact:

A bike is at maximum deceleration when the rear tire begins to lift off the pavement.

Brake as you wish, but if you claim that using both brakes is the fastest way to stop, you are wrong. Physics says so.
I expect the rear brake will have some effect *before* the rear tire lifts off. Breaking doesn't begin with a stoppie.
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Old 07-21-21, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
If you're doing everything you can to get your weight back as far as possible, what happens when you're braking as hard as you can without going over the bars?

The back wheel comes up. A full-blown emergency stop is you balancing the whole bike around the head tube while you hope the fork is up to it and the back wheel is a passenger.

First time this happened to me BITD, it was the second time I had to make an emergency stop with a fancy new dual pivot brake. The first time, I went straight over the bars, and I was totally stoked that now this was a thing I could do.

Hmm, maybe a faceplant is the fastest possible stop?
For those of you experts who emergency stop only with the front brake, what's the technique to keep you from going over the bars? Getting your weight as far back behind the saddle as possible as fast as possible and hope, huh?

Seems to me that what others have said is right: in that instance, there isn't any harm in also using the rear. In the best case, it helps you shed speed and you doesn't lift off. And if it lifts off, what have you lost?
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Old 07-21-21, 04:00 PM
  #47  
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This lesser point will surely be lost and buried in this thread, but I run the same tire pressure in front and rear primarily because of the issues discussed here. Since the weight transfers more to the front wheel when braking, I want the front tire to behave properly under that increased load.

Riding SS I also ride out of the saddle often with weight over the bars, so there are a lot of moments of more forward weight distribution even when not braking.

Anyway, something to consider when you set your tire pressure.

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Old 07-21-21, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by RichSPK View Post
I expect the rear brake will have some effect *before* the rear tire lifts off. Breaking doesn't begin with a stoppie.
Sure, that's what happens most of the time.

But if you're just talking about maximum braking, that is always the point where the rear wheel is about to lift off. That situation holds at any moment, from when you first apply the brakes to the moment you come to a stop.
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Old 07-21-21, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Symox View Post
Been doing a lot of hills lately. I read or watched a video where someone recommended slowing down using the rear brake.


while doing that I’ve had a few occasions where (especially in a turn) my rear wheel locks up and I start a short skid. Luckily I’ve corrected by releasing the brakes in time to prevent losing control.

im using rim brakes and keep my but on the saddle


any tips to avoid the skids?
First, remember that whether you use the front or rear brake, if the bike is slowing, it is pushing you to slow you down and you are pushing back. So your weight is more on the front wheel. Less weight on the rear wheel means less rolling friction force is available for braking before you max out and skid.

Second, when cornering, the available frictional force is shared by cornering forces (lest the wheel slip and you fall) and braking forces. This means you will skid all that much quicker because the act of braking has unloaded the rear wheel and you are also cornering at the same time.

Hope that helps.

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Old 07-21-21, 07:55 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
For those of you experts who emergency stop only with the front brake, what's the technique to keep you from going over the bars? Getting your weight as far back behind the saddle as possible as fast as possible and hope, huh?

Seems to me that what others have said is right: in that instance, there isn't any harm in also using the rear. In the best case, it helps you shed speed and you doesn't lift off. And if it lifts off, what have you lost?
First time I had a proper front brake and needed it, straight over the bars. Second time, I dunno - I just knew I had enough brake and didn't automatically grab as hard as I could. I was cooking, doing more than 40 clicks, and had the back wheel up for several metres. No way I'd have the balls to replicate that on purpose, it was just automatic.

But the first instinct is to throw myself back hard as I grab a fistful.
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