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You think rim brake, direct mount will return?

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You think rim brake, direct mount will return?

Old 07-16-21, 06:25 PM
  #76  
tomato coupe
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I can't imagine a rim brake ever squealing.
Sure rim brakes can squeal. They're not as nearly as bad as disc brakes, but they can squeal.
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Old 07-16-21, 06:27 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by zymphad View Post
Well I was doing a hill climb loop I like to do today, cause I suck at hills, yeah I heard someone's disc brakes squealing ahead of me and sure enough he had to get off to fix them... And there was some sort of charity ride last week and riding past them, sure enough noticed one pack was waiting for some woman to adjust, who's disc brake was making a raucous. I really want rim brakes to stay.

I keep being told disc brakes don't make noise, it's just they weren't properly installed blah blah blah. But I keep seeing people tinkering with their disc brakes on the side of the road... So I dunno. /shrug
Yup, and rim brakes never rub when they shouldn't, always have the perfect toe-in and modulation, are never maladjusted to the point that they abrade the tire sidewall until it bursts, perform consistently in all weather, the pads never get fouled, the pad gap never needs to be adjusted, etc, etc, etc.

Try harder. Both rim and disc can be set up poorly, but once set up properly, discs require less by way of regular maintenance and what maintenance they do require is pretty simple stuff. Can they honk like pissed off geese when it's wet out or when they've been fouled? Sure. Can a warped rotor kiss the pads to the tune of a mildly annoying zing-zing-zing? Yeah. Are these kinds of things easily remedied? Uh huh, if you're mildly competent.
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Old 07-16-21, 06:30 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by zymphad View Post
Well I was doing a hill climb loop I like to do today, cause I suck at hills, yeah I heard someone's disc brakes squealing ahead of me and sure enough he had to get off to fix them... And there was some sort of charity ride last week and riding past them, sure enough noticed one pack was waiting for some woman to adjust, who's disc brake was making a raucous. I really want rim brakes to stay.

I keep being told disc brakes don't make noise, it's just they weren't properly installed blah blah blah. But I keep seeing people tinkering with their disc brakes on the side of the road... So I dunno. /shrug
Itís always hard to speculate on other random peopleís bike issues. Personal experience is far more reliable. If I had these issues with disc brakes I would go back to rim brakes. But I donít.
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Old 07-16-21, 06:31 PM
  #79  
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I doubt it. The benefits aren’t significant enough. Maybe they’ll figure out a way to regurgitate post mount disc calipers as direct mount disc brakes.
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Old 07-16-21, 06:37 PM
  #80  
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Hydro lines also easier for the manufactures to route internally with sharper bends that cables.
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Old 07-16-21, 06:51 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
I reckon it'd be sweet to see a bike with direct mount rim brakes and through axles, but it'll never happen since the necessary hubs would be way too niche...


Old fish swims past a couple of young fish, and goes, hi, the water's nice today. One young fish says to the other, what the hell is water?
Here's some news for you: you're not special, you're not "smarter than the average bear", you're not "wise", everyone else aren't dumbasses. The sooner you realise this, the better it will be for you.

By the way: there is nothing "niche" about through axle hubs.
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Old 07-16-21, 06:58 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by zymphad View Post
Sure they are. Just like they said certain frame design like that headtube remember was wider at the bottom than top increased rigidity, and now well no one does that? And well they ALL did that just 5 years ago? Also don't see how that is possible, but I guess my tiny brain can't get over how giant disc brakes are more aero than tiny rim brakes. Oh I forgot, maybe the tiniest less curve because of brake on the wheels is less aero than having a chunky disc brake... Right... That's why so many people are still raiding wheels that are only 20mm deep, cause they were saying how much aero 40mm was and everyone should ride it, and just like how 28mm was actually faster than 25mm but every road bike I saw in the shop were 25mm. So, I've started to think the bike marketing is mostly nonsense to get people to upgrade.

Hell I remember how Cervelo one year why they increased the height of the BB and shortened their chain stay... and then they changed it back to how it was before because it was better... And then I remember how bladed forks were all the rage and now I see the new more AERO road bikes don't have bladed forks. And then I remember how Cannondale made a big deal about their 25mm seat-tube and now they are back to 27mm... so.

I also remember how the TT bikes were kinda bulky rounded tubes... Then they became blades cause more aero. But now they are back to being more bulky rounded oval tubes cause more aero. Wait what... ?!?!?
I think you need to chill out and have a beer or something. I donít see disc brakes adding any more aero drag than rim brakes given their frontal area. Especially if the frame design is optimised around them. Iím pretty sure Pinarello are saying that their new Dogma is fractionally more aero in disc form. Not that the difference would be significant for the average rider or even a pro. My point was that rim brakes are not going to make a comeback on the basis of being more aero.
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Old 07-16-21, 07:15 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
I think you need to chill out and have a beer or something. I donít see disc brakes adding any more aero drag than rim brakes given their frontal area. Especially if the frame design is optimised around them. Iím pretty sure Pinarello are saying that their new Dogma is fractionally more aero in disc form. Not that the difference would be significant for the average rider or even a pro. My point was that rim brakes are not going to make a comeback on the basis of being more aero.
There's a recent Nerd Alert podcast that interviews the guy at Cannondale responsible for their SuperSlice TT bike. There is a fair amount of discussion about the the use of rim brakes vs. disc brakes on TT bikes. One data point is that any set of brakes costs about 2 W at 30 mph, but it's easier to reduce the drag of disc brakes (if you're worried about that teeny weeny amount of drag.)
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Old 07-16-21, 07:40 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
As soon as bike manufactures began offering chocolate (disc brakes), they told consumers that this new chocolate flavor tastes so much better than vanilla that only a fool would keep eating vanilla.
Gee, I wonder why people chose chocolate over vanilla. I guess we'll never know.
Because they did not HAVE a choice. The only thing offered is disks! errr chocolate. DM for me.
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Old 07-16-21, 08:47 PM
  #85  
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I'm holding onto to my high end rim brake wheels for the foreseeable future. They will probably outlast me and I'm definitely not swapping my rim brake road bike as that would be super expensive for a comparable new bike with disc brakes. I wish I had direct mount rim brakes though. It just seems like an intuitively better design. My gravel bike on the other hand with 40mm+ tires I have a proper full hydro disc brake setup. Definitely pros and cons for both types of systems. At this point I am hoping that the titans like SRAM and Shimano can continue to develop the technology further.
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Old 07-16-21, 08:58 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Pretty agitated, apparently.
You know how sometimes there's a constant annoying noise that eventually you only notice when it stops?

Systematic exploitation and the minimisation of human potential gives me tinnitus.

You'd be pretty silly to disagree that the distribution and exercise of power in a society is the most fundamental factor affecting the nature of that society, right?

The development of the road bike occurs within that paradigm. Sure would be nice, not just for the development of road bikes, if we had a system that was actually designed to maximise our potential...

I'll zip it now, except to say that you can ignore politics, but you can't escape its pervasive effects.

Last edited by Kimmo; 07-16-21 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 07-16-21, 09:51 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
And our current dual pivot brakes could probably be redesigned to be direct mounted, but I don't think there is the demand.
Um,
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Old 07-16-21, 11:27 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Yeah, I meant that fluid changes are tedious, with the two syringes and the back and forth thing to purge air. Is that only a SRAM thing? I’ve not done Shimano fluid change.
Shimano is pretty simple, fill a syringe with new fluid (inert mineral oil), attach to the bleed screw on the caliper, then thread a cup onto the lever. Open the bleed screw, and push the new fluid through. It'll flush the old fluid up into the cup and bleed the system at the same time. Shimano calls it "one way bleed."
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Old 07-16-21, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Broctoon View Post
..your bike sucks if you still have rim brakes.
Is not what I said. I said rim brakes suck. What I didn't say is "relative to discs." Rim brakes work, they just don't work as well.

And to the other poster telling the cool stories about disc brake equipped bikes requiring mid-ride maintenance (implying it's uniquely isolated to disc brakes)...use a little common sense. Every single part of a bike could require maintenance mid-ride, things break and go out of adjustment. This is not unique to disc brakes.
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Old 07-16-21, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jmphill01 View Post
...I'm definitely not swapping my rim brake road bike as that would be super expensive for a comparable new bike with disc brakes...
I won't lie, it's why I didn't switch to a disc brake equipped road bike until 2021. The final straw for me was the crash that was entirely preventable, except for the fact that it started raining and rim brakes don't work so good for emergency stops in the rain, and some dude decided he didn't see me, so he turned left in front of me...thankfully I hit the side of his CitroŽn instead of going over the hood.
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Old 07-17-21, 05:20 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Doomrider74 View Post
Here's some news for you: you're not special, you're not "smarter than the average bear", you're not "wise", everyone else aren't dumbasses. The sooner you realise this, the better it will be for you.

By the way: there is nothing "niche" about through axle hubs.
Personal experience says otherwise. There are bell curves, and some people aren't in the middle; maybe that's news to you. And yeah, if I lost 50 IQ points I'd probably be happier; cf Lisa Simpson's graph of happiness versus intelligence. There's a lot of facts about reality that are hazardous to mental health which vast swathes of folks happily ignore.

Also, through-axle rim brake hubs aren't a thing, AFAIK.

Last edited by Kimmo; 07-17-21 at 05:24 AM.
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Old 07-17-21, 05:47 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Right, sure. Commercial radio isn't a cacophonic cesspit, and community radio isn't a vital refuge from pervasive capitalist propaganda, got it.

Scumbags trying to manipulate me via my amygdala are only doing their totally necessary job and don't deserve a special circle in hell, thanks for clearing that up.
I don't listen to commercial radio so I wouldn't know. I generally avoid the popular media because it doesn't interest me. I don't mind marketing of products because, like most keen cyclists, I'm smart enough to make my own personal judgements on new technology. Marketing just helps to make products more visible. I find that quite useful. I don't live in the past and I keep an open mind. Bicycles, like most products, are continually evolving and improving yet there is always this backlash whenever there is change. Without change there is no progression. Some people are curious about new things, others just perpetually live in whatever arbitrary year they lost their virginity. You see some of these old guys literally living in a time-warp, which is fine as long as they don't try to convince everyone else that they should too.
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Old 07-17-21, 06:20 AM
  #93  
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Let's say I own a $50,000 stable of rim brake equipped bikes and wheels.

Why would I replace them with $80,000 of disc brake equipped bikes?

The thought of filling up the landfills breaks my heart.

WRT to claims that discs have no aero disadvantage, my perusal of Tour Magazin results says otherwise. It is small, 2-6 watts but clearly there are cost(s) to changing to disc brakes. The only bike that I would like to have discs is on my recumbent because I hit very high speed, discs would make sense on that bike. Upgrade others? Not compelling.
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Old 07-17-21, 06:34 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Badger6 View Post
Shimano is pretty simple, fill a syringe with new fluid (inert mineral oil), attach to the bleed screw on the caliper, then thread a cup onto the lever. Open the bleed screw, and push the new fluid through. It'll flush the old fluid up into the cup and bleed the system at the same time. Shimano calls it "one way bleed."
Sounds simple on a relative basis vs maintenance items discussed on bikeforums. If we change the discussion a bit, away from the typical roadbikes discussed in this forum, what is the thought on disc brakes also being standard on the big box stuff that the general masses purchase? Eg. here's an example page. For the price, are buyers better off with these no-name mechanical disc setups than they would be with no-name rim brake setups?

https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/f...%3B2527%3ADisc
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Old 07-17-21, 06:40 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Let's say I own a $50,000 stable of rim brake equipped bikes and wheels.

Why would I replace them with $80,000 of disc brake equipped bikes?

The thought of filling up the landfills breaks my heart.

WRT to claims that discs have no aero disadvantage, my perusal of Tour Magazin results says otherwise. It is small, 2-6 watts but clearly there are cost(s) to changing to disc brakes. The only bike that I would like to have discs is on my recumbent because I hit very high speed, discs would make sense on that bike. Upgrade others? Not compelling.
Nobody is asking you to replace all your rim brake bikes. But if, for whatever reason, you felt the need to add to your $50k stable you could always try discs for a change.

The aero difference between rim/disc brakes is very marginal and there are signs it is starting to swing in favour of discs as frame design becomes more optimised around them. Even Pinarello are now moving in that direction.
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Old 07-17-21, 06:44 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Sounds simple on a relative basis vs maintenance items discussed on bikeforums. If we change the discussion a bit, away from the typical roadbikes discussed in this forum, what is the thought on disc brakes also being standard on the big box stuff that the general masses purchase? Eg. here's an example page. For the price, are buyers better off with these no-name mechanical disc setups than they would be with no-name rim brake setups?

https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/f...%3B2527%3ADisc
My only experience with cable actuated discs was on a kid's bike and they were fine. Better than the cheap rim brakes I was used to dealing with.
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Old 07-17-21, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Nobody is asking you to replace all your rim brake bikes. But if, for whatever reason, you felt the need to add to your $50k stable you could always try discs for a change.

The aero difference between rim/disc brakes is very marginal and there are signs it is starting to swing in favour of discs as frame design becomes more optimised around them. Even Pinarello are now moving in that direction.
So, what are you asking?

Your statements about old men, timewarp and virginity are pretty disgusting and disrespectful. And I see no humor there. Just plain nasty.

I have owned three disc equipped bikes. The marginal increase in braking performance does not justify replacing what I already have.
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Old 07-17-21, 08:01 AM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
I have owned three disc equipped bikes. The marginal increase in braking performance does not justify replacing what I already have.
Agreed.

Last week I stopped by the Trek store to use the bathroom and refill my water bottles. The sales person noticed I was riding a Emonda SLR and then explained why I should upgrade my 2015 rim brake model for the 2021 disc brake. I told him it was simple math and return on investment. If I sold my bike as it stood i'd get maybe $3000-$3500 for it. A new equally equipped model would cost me over $8000 more. And for that $8000 i'd get a heavier bike, disc brakes, through axles and a T47 bottom bracket. I reminded him that I live on Long Island so there are no mountains to descend and my bottom bracket does not creak so it's fine.

And I did have a second bike that has hydro disc, 1x mechanical drivetrain and 32mm tubeless tires for inclement weather which is where disc brakes excel over rim brakes. And this bike cost a fraction of the $8000 I saved by not constantly upgrading.
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Old 07-17-21, 08:03 AM
  #99  
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I'm just not seeing a substantial improvement in disk brakes for my style of riding. I have never once thought that my rim brakes were inadequate. If my brakes are good enough to lock up my wheels when I'm riding, that's all you need. All the rest of the stopping power is in the tires. 10 years ago disk brakes were only found on cyclocross and MTB because they get muddy and rim brakes can get slippery. They were thought of as clunky, complicated and heavy, but if racing a road bike off-road in the mud, they performed better. Kind of a necessary evil. Seems like a fad to me now. I can understand that if you are running CF wheels and doing very long, fast descents with constant braking maybe rim brakes could cause overheating or damage the CF. But for regular touring and flat riding I don't see a benefit...certainly not to the extent that they have now become practically standard equipment on new bikes. If I was in the market for a new bike I think I'd actually prefer to stick with a model that has rim brakes.
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Old 07-17-21, 08:25 AM
  #100  
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I'd think it safe to suppose rim brakes have as good a chance at returning as friction shifters do.
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