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You think rim brake, direct mount will return?

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You think rim brake, direct mount will return?

Old 07-17-21, 05:32 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Doomrider74 View Post
You keep telling yourself that.

True about the hubs but what's stopping you using a disc hub laced to some rim brake-suitable rims? If you don't like the look of the 6 bolt flange, use centre lock hubs
Pff. Mentioning IQ always brings out the insecure wannabes. Here's a tip - if somebody says they can bench 300 pounds, maybe don't challenge them to an armwrestle in front of everyone.

Aside from the unused brake interface, there's the small matter of unnecessary dish on the front, and oversized rear OLD. When I pictured a bike with direct mount brakes and through axles, I saw something sleek and cool, not something I'd point and laugh at.
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Old 07-17-21, 05:47 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
A friend of mine bought a Domane SL7 with ultegra hydraulic disks at the beginning of the season and they have squealed annoyingly every time he stops on every ride since the first time I rode with him in February. If it were my bike, I'd fiddle with it until it was quiet.
Loud brakes are good on bike paths. Pull up behind someone, slam on the brakes, and wait for them to dive into the bushes.
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Old 07-17-21, 06:01 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Loud brakes are good on bike paths. Pull up behind someone, slam on the brakes, and wait for them to dive into the bushes.
What would be perfect is if the brake was silent when you wanted it to be, without having to avoid a bracket of your modulation. Say, push the lever sideways a bit and you have alarming squeal, but never otherwise.

I had similar thought about my car - the BOV could vent to atmo if I pulled up on the reverse lockout during a shift. I know, what could possibly go wrong, right?
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Old 07-17-21, 06:16 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
A friend of mine bought a Domane SL7 with ultegra hydraulic disks at the beginning of the season and they have squealed annoyingly every time he stops on every ride since the first time I rode with him in February. If it were my bike, I'd fiddle with it until it was quiet. I guess if people don't care if they have loud brakes, they don't take any maintenance. I know he hasn't done anything to his. He said he took it to the shop and they told him that's just how they are. They stop fine. They're just loud.
Well thatís not just how they are. Thatís just how your friendís are. Do the disc brakes on your car squeal all the time? Iím guessing not.
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Old 07-17-21, 06:19 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Well that’s not just how they are. That’s just how your friend’s are. Do the disc brakes on your car squeal all the time? I’m guessing not.
The discs on your car are more than a couple of mm thick, I hope.

Come on, it's a thing with bike discs, and not really a thing with proper rim brakes unlike on your mum's hybrid.
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Old 07-17-21, 06:28 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Well thatís not just how they are. Thatís just how your friendís are. Do the disc brakes on your car squeal all the time? Iím guessing not.
The brakes on my cars are quiet. My BB7s squeal incessantly which is the main reason I hate them. Given my personal experiences I'm skeptical that hydraulics are all that much better in that regard.
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Old 07-17-21, 06:32 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by kimmo View Post
there are bell curves, and some people aren't in the middle; maybe that's news to you. And yeah, if i lost 50 iq points i'd probably be happier...
Originally Posted by kimmo View Post
Mentioning IQ always brings out the is a good indicator of insecure wannabes.
ftfy
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Old 07-17-21, 06:34 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
The brakes on my cars are quiet. My BB7s squeal incessantly which is the main reason I hate them. Given my personal experiences I'm skeptical that hydraulics are all that much better in that regard.
Cheaper cable disc brakes may be more prone to squealing, probably due to slop in the piston. A worthwhile upgrade would probably be the TRP hybrid calipers, which will also drastically reduce the amount of fiddling necessary to keep them working nicely.
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Old 07-17-21, 06:35 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
ftfy
For a given definition of fixed, which I find lacking.
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Old 07-17-21, 06:37 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
The discs on your car are more than a couple of mm thick, I hope.

Come on, it's a thing with bike discs, and not really a thing with proper rim brakes unlike on your mum's hybrid.
IME they only squeal if they get contaminated or something is loose. Resin pads are normally silent. Sintered pads can be a little noisy in certain conditions. Canít say noisy disc brakes have been an issue for me on either mtb or road. Iíve been really impressed with the Shimano road discs. Canít fault them really.
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Old 07-17-21, 06:48 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
The brakes on my cars are quiet. My BB7s squeal incessantly which is the main reason I hate them. Given my personal experiences I'm skeptical that hydraulics are all that much better in that regard.
I donít have much experience with BB7s, but most decent hydraulic brakes donít squeal incessantly. I ride with loads of people using disc brakes and they are not all squealing. IRL I havenít come across anyone complaining about their disc brakes. It seems to be an internet only thing. Noisy drivetrains on the other hand seem pretty common.
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Old 07-17-21, 06:51 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Cheaper cable disc brakes may be more prone to squealing, probably due to slop in the piston. A worthwhile upgrade would probably be the TRP hybrid calipers, which will also drastically reduce the amount of fiddling necessary to keep them working nicely.
My solution has been to stick to rim brakes in the rain. It's the road grime that contaminates the pads and makes the disks squeal in my experience. They're fine if I keep them dry. As I said, I'm skeptical that the pad contamination problem is solved with a different caliper.
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Old 07-17-21, 07:37 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
...IRL I havenít come across anyone complaining about their disc brakes. It seems to be an internet only thing...
The internet and seven-time grand tour winner Chris Froome who is paid to ride a bike with disk brakes and has a team of mechanics who still can't keep them from rubbing and squealing. That's it. Just those two.
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Old 07-17-21, 07:51 PM
  #139  
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Many car disc brakes have a squeaker built in.

Silent until you get down to about 1/8", then they start squealing.
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Old 07-17-21, 07:51 PM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
As I said, I'm skeptical that the pad contamination problem is solved with a different caliper.
The squealing is resonance, which is just looking for a reason to happen; it'll be happy to go ahead on the basis of any single excuse or combination thereof, so everything you do to minimise it counts.

Most cable calipers aren't double acting, which flexes the rotor onto one set of pads, which sucks mainly because it drastically reduces pad life (the pad rapidly wears where it touches first, until it conforms, at which point the thinnest part of the pad could be half gone), but also because that sort of nominal near-enoughery is what adds up to make stuff work badly.

The hybrid calipers, aside from being double acting and providing the significant benefit of self-adjustment, are going to work better also because they're necessarily made to tighter tolerance.
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Old 07-17-21, 08:09 PM
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That's a very helpful explanation as to why my BB7s squeal and hydraulic calipers would be better Kimmo.
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Old 07-17-21, 08:12 PM
  #142  
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Disc brakes continue to evolve, but component manufacturers are investing zero into rim brake R & D.

Like 26" wheels, coaster brakes, and quill stems, rim brakes will be around forever. But their current iteration is about as advanced as they'll get, and that will seal their fate.
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Old 07-17-21, 08:21 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Cheaper cable disc brakes may be more prone to squealing, probably due to slop in the piston..
Cable disc brakes have pistons?

I thought pistons and cylinders were a hydraulic-only thing.
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Old 07-17-21, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Rolla View Post
Disc brakes continue to evolve, but component manufacturers are investing zero into rim brake R & D.

Like 26" wheels, coaster brakes, and quill stems, rim brakes will be around forever. But their current iteration is about as advanced as they'll get, and that will seal their fate.
Direct mount, or even hydraulic rim brakes got pretty freakin sweet (where are the hydraulic direct mount rim brakes?) - lots of folks seem to be unaware that rim braking on carbon is pretty much a solved problem.

The fundamental advantage of rim brakes that tempts a designer away from disc, is that the difference the brake makes from a track frame is stuff-all: the fork legs in particular can be stiff or compliant in all the places and directions desired to fulfil the gamut of criteria for a top-notch fork. This is why I pine for my unicorn, rim brake / through-axle - it's about flex where you want it and none where you don't.

Traditional QR axles made sense BITD, but now that we only use steel for stuff like bearings and fasteners, cables and drivetrain, the dimensions are wrong, like HG splines in aluminium.

​​​​​​​Anyway, rim brakes are highly evolved; it's a bit unfair to mention them in the same breath as '26" wheels, coaster brakes, and quill stems'...

Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Cable disc brakes have pistons?

I thought pistons and cylinders were a hydraulic-only thing.
There's a component that is to the cable caliper what the piston is to the hydraulic. Whatever that's called.

So there's one vote for increased verbosity in my posts

Last edited by Kimmo; 07-17-21 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 07-17-21, 08:43 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Big Bike is subverting my free will. Is there some kind of support group for this?
Here ya go:

https://www.rivbike.com/
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Old 07-17-21, 09:05 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
​​​​​​​Anyway, rim brakes are highly evolved; it's a bit unfair to mention them in the same breath as '26" wheels, coaster brakes, and quill stems'...
Yes, but my point was that their evolution has peaked, and little if anything is being done to make them competitive in the market. In that respect, I maintain that the comparison is apt.
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Old 07-18-21, 03:20 AM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
The internet and seven-time grand tour winner Chris Froome who is paid to ride a bike with disk brakes and has a team of mechanics who still can't keep them from rubbing and squealing. That's it. Just those two.
Who else in the pro peleton is complaining about disc brakes?
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Old 07-18-21, 04:35 AM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by Doomrider74 View Post
Who else in the pro peleton is complaining about disc brakes?
I have no idea. I'm just some middle-aged white guy from the suburbs. Froome is the only one I've seen publicly complain about it recently. There were a lot a few years ago when the transition was just getting started. Apparently someone on team Israel forgot to tell Froome to keep his opinions about disks to himself after coming from Ineos who still ride rim brake Pinarellos. I notice the issue has since been corrected.
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Old 07-18-21, 06:17 AM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by Doomrider74 View Post
Who else in the pro peleton is complaining about disc brakes?
Still see stories along these lines crop up every year or so.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mat...an-rim-brakes/
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Old 07-18-21, 06:26 AM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by Rolla View Post
Disc brakes continue to evolve, but component manufacturers are investing zero into rim brake R & D.

Like 26" wheels, coaster brakes, and quill stems, rim brakes will be around forever. But their current iteration is about as advanced as they'll get, and that will seal their fate.
Maybe the next evolution in brakes will simply be smaller and lighter disk brakes. That really is the next logical step.
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