BHG6

You really thought I was talking about non-carriers of the virus? And you're calling me a troll?

Most infected people aren't aware of their own status. INFECTED VACCINATED people can transmit the virus just as easily as unvaccinated people. And despite what you may have heard, breakthrough cases aren't THAT rare. I personally know at least 5 people who have contracted the disease despite being vaccinated.

My question still stands - Why, since these vaccines are so highly effective, should you worry about getting infected from ANYONE, vaccinated or not?

You won't have a clue if anyone on your group ride is infected or lying about their vaccination status so, If you're really that concerned about getting infected despite being vaccinated, you should probably stick to doing group rides on Zwift.....it's way safer. Or is it? Your risk of contracting the virus is actually much higher indoors.........

terrymorse 

Question asked. In case you're looking for an answer, here are my personal reasons:

Because this virus is highly contagious and causes serious illness.

Being vaccinated, I almost certainly won't get seriously ill. I'm not worried about getting sick.

But if I get infected (which I suspect will happen eventually), I probably will transmit it to other people. And they will transmit it to more people. And so on, until it reaches someone who ends up in the hospital and possibly dies.

Then there's the prospect of further variants. More infected people means more opportunities for a new virus variant that is more deadly or more able to evade the vaccines.

I now take precautions to prevent getting and transmitting the virus. Not to keep myself healthy, but to keep others healthy.

MinnMan

Another question to which we don't have good answers

]Can I get long covid if I've been vaccinated?

BHG6

If you truly are that concerned about protecting others from the virus then the vaccination status of those around you should be of no concern. Honestly, you have no idea who around you is actively transmitting the virus so you need to treat everyone as if they're infected and conduct yourself accordingly. Do you do that?

I take the requisite precautions to protect myself and those I love. Beyond that, I find worrying about everyone else's vaccination status to be completely exhausting

MinnMan

Based on the vigor with which you are posting on the topic, that's hard to believe.

BHG6

So the conclusion you drew from reading my previous posts is that I'm actually concerned with the vaccination status of others?

MinnMan

Wrong. The conclusion I drew is that you have a lot of energy to discuss it. If you find the topic exhausting, you can just exit the thread and contemplate things that you find less draining.

BHG6

I never said I found the topic exhausting. I said I find worrying about everyone else and their vaccination status to be exhausting.

Kabuto

The most recent number I read was 39%. And falling.

"95% of the severe patients are vaccinated".
"85-90% of the hospitalizations are fully vaccinated people."
"We are opening more and more COVID wards."
"The effectiveness of the vaccine is waning/fading out"
(Dr. Kobi Haviv, yesterday on Chanel 13 @newsisrael13)

MinnMan

znomit

I know. How the heck you you live with yourself owning both a pina and a Nishiki?

diphthong

there's a lot of buzz...esp since the '85 pinarello is running shimano and the '88 nishiki is running campy.
expecting to be crushed underneath a falling piano or two any day...wouldn't have it any other way.

terrymorse 

I disagree. If the people in close proximity are not vaccinated, the chances of my acquiring and transmitting the disease are far greater.

terrymorse 

Data pulled from hospitalizations don't tell you much about effectiveness.

Better estimates of effectiveness can be found in journal articles, like this very recent one, Bernal et al, July 21, 2021:

Effectiveness of Covid-19 Vaccines against the B.1.617.2 (Delta) Variant

CONCLUSIONS

Only modest differences in vaccine effectiveness were noted with the delta variant as compared with the alpha variant after the receipt of two vaccine doses. Absolute differences in vaccine effectiveness were more marked after the receipt of the first dose. This finding would support efforts to maximize vaccine uptake with two doses among vulnerable populations. (Funded by Public Health England.)

jon c. 

I ride solo, but if I rode in a group I would continue to do so. I wouldn't want to stand around in close contact before or after the ride, but I would feel safe enough actually riding in the presence of other riders.

MinnMan

I understand this sentiment. But people should recognize that even during a group ride, there are occasions for motionless proximity. For example, stopping at red lights, stopping for mechanicals, rest stops at C-stores or elsewhere. These may not be long, and can be minimized with some positional awareness.

BillyD

Let's steer clear of politics guys.

BHG6

Far greater? Honestly?

My friend, you are already protected by a vaccine boasting a 93% efficacy rate. Why on earth would you be concerned with the minute off-chance of being infected by an unvaccinated person, SPECIFICALLY , when the data shows that vaccinated people can be every bit as contagious?

If you are truly that concerned, you shouldn’t be doing group rides - you should be treating everyone as if they were infected, regardless of their claims. Kinda like picking up some random strange at the Pink Flamingo. Know what I mean?

Protecting yourself IS protecting those around you. Worrying about everyone else will only cause your Cortisol to shoot through the roof.

Am I wrong?

terrymorse 

Yes, honestly. It doesn't take a PhD in epidemiology to conclude that the unvaccinated are more likely to transmit the virus.

Is the risk of contracting the virus much less when vaccinated? Data suggest yes, but data also suggest that indoor and crowded gatherings are risky for everyone.

Note that masks are now mandated indoors for all, not just the unvaccinated, in order to reduce transmission. From our most recent county order, dated 2-August:

------
Regardless of vaccination status, all persons must wear face coverings at all times when indoors...

...all persons are strongly discouraged from engaging in any activities that require removal of face coverings indoors (e.g., indoor dining), and instead encouraged to choose safer alternatives (e.g., outdoor dining). Even outdoors, individuals are recommended to use face coverings if they are in crowded areas.
------

None of this causes me any "worry", or shoots up my cortisol level (LOL). I go about my daily routine, following the orders from health officials, taking sensible precautions.

Kapusta

I do not know what the heck you are thinking, nor do I particularly care.

What I DO know is that you are consistently misrepresenting what the CDC is saying about the risk posed by vaccinated vs unvaccinated groups.

BHG6

I gave you a direct quote from the Director of the CDC and you claim I’m misrepresenting what she said. Ok….you win

Kapusta

You are providing a quote while claiming it means something completely different than actually does.

You may as well be pointing to the sky as proof that it is green.

You you already know this.

Seattle Forrest

​​​​​​Yes. It's been explained to you and you keep repeating the misinformation.

WhyFi

Yes, you are.

You know how there are often pissing matches about what constitutes the best bang for the buck when it comes to bikes? What many fail to recognize is that BBftB is going to differ from person to person based upon their expectations and the depth of their wallet. This is very similar. Sometimes it's Sora, sometimes it's Super Record - it's different for everyone. You're failing to acknowledge that there are various levels of risk and various levels of reward. Some may only feel comfortable completely isolated, as you suggest, while others, knowing that they'll be surrounded by inoculated folks, will be happy to increase their risk slightly if it means the pleasure of riding with company - that's their best bang for the viral load buck.

Kapusta

Yes, but he can back up this misinformation with quotes from the CDC that don't back up his misinformation.