Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

SRAM Force Disc woes continue

Notices
Road Cycling It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle. -- Ernest Hemingway

SRAM Force Disc woes continue

Old 08-24-21, 04:52 AM
  #1  
Mattyb13
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Mattyb13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 201

Bikes: 2021 Specialized Tarmac Pro

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 6 Posts
SRAM Force Disc woes continue

No matter how many times I try, I continue to have howling from my Force Disc brakes on my SL7 Pro Tarmac. I clean, and bed in properly repeatedly, but they just howl. I am going to try one more brand new Paceline rotor, one more time and one more brand new set of pads. I am curious if anyone has used or recommends other than SRAM brand brake pads? Thx.
Mattyb13 is offline  
Old 08-24-21, 05:56 AM
  #2  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 5,017
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2542 Post(s)
Liked 2,717 Times in 1,715 Posts
Are you using organic or sintered pads? The former are generally quieter. Also what are you cleaning them with?
PeteHski is offline  
Old 08-24-21, 06:02 AM
  #3  
Mattyb13
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Mattyb13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 201

Bikes: 2021 Specialized Tarmac Pro

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 6 Posts
I have been using the Organic/black pads. I have been sanding my rotors with 150 grit, and then cleaning them with alcohol. I have heard about acetate working but I have not tried that yet. Also heard of lighting the rotors and pads on fire after cleaning as well. Haven't tried that either. Never touching the rotors or pad surface and always wearing nitrile gloves. Its been really frustrating. I have the rears in a fairly quiet (although not completely quiet) place, but my fronts sound like an air horn.
Mattyb13 is offline  
Old 08-24-21, 06:14 AM
  #4  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 5,017
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2542 Post(s)
Liked 2,717 Times in 1,715 Posts
Originally Posted by Mattyb13 View Post
I have been using the Organic/black pads. I have been sanding my rotors with 150 grit, and then cleaning them with alcohol. I have heard about acetate working but I have not tried that yet. Also heard of lighting the rotors and pads on fire after cleaning as well. Haven't tried that either. Never touching the rotors or pad surface and always wearing nitrile gloves. Its been really frustrating. I have the rears in a fairly quiet (although not completely quiet) place, but my fronts sound like an air horn.
Strange one this. Okay next question. Is this happening on both your front and rear brakes or just one of them? Trying to rule out things like resonance and alignment issues etc.

Just as an aside, I do literally nothing in the way of cleaning with any of our many disc brake bikes and non of them are noisy. I just bed in the pads and ride.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 08-24-21, 10:39 AM
  #5  
Bald Paul
Senior Member
 
Bald Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 577 Post(s)
Liked 1,105 Times in 520 Posts
Originally Posted by Mattyb13 View Post
I have been sanding my rotors with 150 grit, and then cleaning them with alcohol.
Personally, I would be using a much finer grit (minimum 1000.) Auto parts stores have a product called Brake-Kleen designed specifically for cleaning brake pads and rotors. It leaves zero residue. (Hint: don't even THINK about lighting it on fire!)
Bald Paul is offline  
Old 08-24-21, 10:45 AM
  #6  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 5,017
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2542 Post(s)
Liked 2,717 Times in 1,715 Posts
Originally Posted by Bald Paul View Post
Personally, I would be using a much finer grit (minimum 1000.) Auto parts stores have a product called Brake-Kleen designed specifically for cleaning brake pads and rotors. It leaves zero residue. (Hint: don't even THINK about lighting it on fire!)
.and if you are starting with a new rotor and pads then dont touch them with anything. Just fit them and ride, following the usual bedding in procedure.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 08-24-21, 10:55 AM
  #7  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,585

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1308 Post(s)
Liked 1,255 Times in 536 Posts
Sounds like you're just cross polluting everything - meaning you are changing one thing and not another until it's already been messed up.

1. Replace the rotors and pads all around. Full stop. No skimping.
2. Make sure the calipers are tightly mounted.
3. Make sure the rotors are very tightly mounted.
4. Make sure the rotors and pads are matched (resin pads to resin compatible rotors).
5. Bed the whole system in correctly. Get up to speed, drag the brake slightly for a while to warm it up, then apply harder to come to a quick(ish) stop then let go before you come to a complete stop. Repeat 10-20 times. The more the merrier.

If you can't get it to stop with new pads and rotors and after bedding them all in then you have a problem - either with you and your process, the caliper is leaking or you have other mechanical issues with the bike like a loose headset, or just crappy frame and fork. There is absolutely no need to go outside of OEM rotors and pads. In fact I would say you should absolutely insist on staying with OEM pads and rotors. The system will absolutely work flawlessly with OEM pads and rotors. If you can't get it to work that way then I assure you it isn't the pads and rotors.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Likes For Psimet2001:
Old 08-24-21, 10:58 AM
  #8  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,585

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1308 Post(s)
Liked 1,255 Times in 536 Posts
tbh - sanding and cleaning a rotor has never truly worked in my experience. I have done it in mild situations when contamination wasn't most likely an issue but in cases of contamination it will just continue. The fluid is in the pads and can not be cleaned out. It will get on the rotor. You can't get the rotor completely clean and it will transfer to the new pads.

I have cleaned with brake cleaner, all sorts of grits of emery, alcohol, acetone, I have set fire to them, etc. Based on my years of working with all of these systems it's a better use of your time just to start from scratch with the right gear.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Likes For Psimet2001:
Old 08-24-21, 11:00 AM
  #9  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 23,208
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18880 Post(s)
Liked 10,640 Times in 6,050 Posts
My happiest day as the owner of a SRAM Force 22 hydro disc bike was the day I sold it.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Likes For Seattle Forrest:
Old 08-24-21, 11:04 AM
  #10  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,585

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1308 Post(s)
Liked 1,255 Times in 536 Posts
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
My happiest day as the owner of a SRAM Force 22 hydro disc bike was the day I sold it.
As a mechanic in the home of SRAM (Chicago) who can name people who helped design those brakes... it pains me to say that I totally understand.

...after having had to pull stuck pistons and master cylinders out of 2 systems in the last week simply because the owners have had them for a few years. Can't stand the fact that I have to do it to my own kid's bike for cross racing this fall.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Likes For Psimet2001:
Old 08-26-21, 04:06 AM
  #11  
Mattyb13
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Mattyb13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 201

Bikes: 2021 Specialized Tarmac Pro

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Sounds like you're just cross polluting everything - meaning you are changing one thing and not another until it's already been messed up.

1. Replace the rotors and pads all around. Full stop. No skimping.
2. Make sure the calipers are tightly mounted.
3. Make sure the rotors are very tightly mounted.
4. Make sure the rotors and pads are matched (resin pads to resin compatible rotors).
5. Bed the whole system in correctly. Get up to speed, drag the brake slightly for a while to warm it up, then apply harder to come to a quick(ish) stop then let go before you come to a complete stop. Repeat 10-20 times. The more the merrier.

If you can't get it to stop with new pads and rotors and after bedding them all in then you have a problem - either with you and your process, the caliper is leaking or you have other mechanical issues with the bike like a loose headset, or just crappy frame and fork. There is absolutely no need to go outside of OEM rotors and pads. In fact I would say you should absolutely insist on staying with OEM pads and rotors. The system will absolutely work flawlessly with OEM pads and rotors. If you can't get it to work that way then I assure you it isn't the pads and rotors.
This is great advice and I completely agree. I am going to go with all new rotors and pads all the way around, start from scratch and hopefully that fixes this. Good call also on checking the caliper, disc and headset. Stay tuned for updates. thanks.

Last edited by Mattyb13; 08-26-21 at 04:19 AM.
Mattyb13 is offline  
Old 08-26-21, 10:15 AM
  #12  
TiHabanero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,000
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1508 Post(s)
Liked 1,027 Times in 530 Posts
Ran into this earlier this year with a front Force disc brake. Tried everything you have already done plus what you are about to do. The only solution was replacing the front wheel with an upgraded model. This worked perfectly and has continued to work perfectly. There was a problem with resonance in the front wheel, and at first it was replaced with an exact same model, but the problem persisted. On a whim we tried an upgraded wheel and bam! it worked!
Outside the box thinking solved the issue.
TiHabanero is offline  
Old 08-26-21, 10:34 AM
  #13  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,153
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1267 Post(s)
Liked 290 Times in 197 Posts
In my (admittedly limited) experience all the elaborate "bedding in" schemes and what not to make your brakes not howl or brake better is just deluding yourself. If you keep it clean form oil It either works or it doesn't. Normal use should be plenty to keep the brakes "bedded" and silent. If not, your forever fighting an uphill battle to keep the brakes efficient and silent, in essence chasing your own tail. A different rotor and/or resin pads may alter the outcome, but I'm convinced mindlessly replacing components 1:1 and trying ever more elaborate bedding methods wont.

Last edited by Racing Dan; 08-26-21 at 10:38 AM.
Racing Dan is offline  
Old 08-26-21, 12:12 PM
  #14  
RNAV
Flyin' under the radar
 
RNAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: O'Fallon, IL
Posts: 830

Bikes: '15 LeMond Washoe custom painted, '06 LeMond Croix de fer custom painted, '18 Specialized Crux

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 168 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times in 23 Posts
Just curious . . . in the auto industry we put grease on the back side of the pad (between the pad and piston) to prevent brake squeal. I haven't seen that mentioned in this thread. Is that something not done on bicycle disc brake applications?

Last edited by RNAV; 08-26-21 at 12:12 PM. Reason: typo
RNAV is offline  
Old 08-26-21, 12:37 PM
  #15  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 5,017
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2542 Post(s)
Liked 2,717 Times in 1,715 Posts
Originally Posted by RNAV View Post
Just curious . . . in the auto industry we put grease on the back side of the pad (between the pad and piston) to prevent brake squeal. I haven't seen that mentioned in this thread. Is that something not done on bicycle disc brake applications?
It is not normally required on bikes. Probably because the pads are so much smaller and the grease would probably find its way onto the wrong side!
PeteHski is offline  
Old 08-26-21, 03:27 PM
  #16  
blakcloud
Senior Member
 
blakcloud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,583
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 603 Post(s)
Liked 342 Times in 220 Posts
Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
Ran into this earlier this year with a front Force disc brake. Tried everything you have already done plus what you are about to do. The only solution was replacing the front wheel with an upgraded model. This worked perfectly and has continued to work perfectly. There was a problem with resonance in the front wheel, and at first it was replaced with an exact same model, but the problem persisted. On a whim we tried an upgraded wheel and bam! it worked!
Outside the box thinking solved the issue.
It could be an expensive solution but a solution none-the-less. Thanks for sharing this.
blakcloud is offline  
Old 08-27-21, 02:56 AM
  #17  
Lazyass
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minas Ithil
Posts: 9,335
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2431 Post(s)
Liked 630 Times in 389 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
tbh - sanding and cleaning a rotor has never truly worked in my experience.
After trying every tip and trick I could find on the internet to stop the airhorn sound coming from my 105's and reaching the point where I was about to put the bike up for sale and give up on discs forever, I sanded the rotors out of desperation. They've been silent ever since. I lightly sanded them with a piece of rough grit that came in a tube patch kit, just enough to scuff them up. Worked for me. If you're using a lighter grit it may not be enough.

Last edited by Lazyass; 08-27-21 at 03:00 AM. Reason: Poor spelling because I'm old
Lazyass is offline  
Old 08-27-21, 07:49 AM
  #18  
Bald Paul
Senior Member
 
Bald Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 577 Post(s)
Liked 1,105 Times in 520 Posts
Permatex makes a product called "Disc Brake Quiet" that is applied to the back (piston) side of the brake pad. It may help. Just follow instructions.
Bald Paul is offline  
Old 08-27-21, 08:18 AM
  #19  
MoAlpha
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 10,914

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9004 Post(s)
Liked 4,919 Times in 2,624 Posts
Maybe I've been lucky, but I have never had a 30 sec burn-off in a gas flame fail to silence a dirty pad.
MoAlpha is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.