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New Dura Ace R9200 announcement on GCN

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New Dura Ace R9200 announcement on GCN

Old 09-03-21, 01:36 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
what incredible insight you have.
Why, thank you! I've spent years honing it to its current razor-like sharpness. So kind of you to notice.
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Old 09-03-21, 02:59 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Razorrock View Post
What's the odds on the 11 spd DI2 systems being able to upgrade to the 12 spd cassette?
Zero
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Old 09-04-21, 05:55 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Razorrock View Post
What's the odds on the 11 spd DI2 systems being able to upgrade to the 12 spd cassette?
Looks like you'll be able to put an 11 speed cassette on the 12 speed freehub body, but not the other way around. I suppose that allows wheel builders to build for the 12 speed group sets and still have them be backwards compatible. I'm really surprised Shimano didn't use the XTR Microspine free hub, allowing roadies to mix-n-match with XT and XTR cassettes (within reason). The 12 speed freehub appears to have more "spines" in it, so hopefully there will be little or no cassette "bite" like there can be with the 11 speed (i.e., the cogs can start biting into the aluminum splines of the freehub if they freehub isn't torqued down enough.)

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Old 09-04-21, 07:39 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by PoorInRichfield View Post
Looks like you'll be able to put an 11 speed cassette on the 12 speed freehub body, but not the other way around.
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
12sp cassettes fit on current 11sp hubs. good. new wheels/hubs arent needed.
I didn't watch the video that leads this thread .... but I am pretty sure that if @mstateglfr had been completely incorrect, we would have devoted several pages to disparaging him.

On the other hand, maybe we still have that chance.
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Old 09-04-21, 01:04 PM
  #105  
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Regarding 105 electronic, it would seem inevitable since sram already has rival axs at a reasonable price. Shimano has some catching up to do. I've already used Campy 12 mechanical for a year and now over a year on force axs electronic. No regrets about giving up on Campy after 25 years. What I find most impressive is only two shift levers do the same job as four with Campy or Shimano.

It will be interesting to see how cross compatible the sprocket spacing is. Campy and SRAM are nearly identical.
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Old 09-04-21, 01:30 PM
  #106  
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Any chance electronic will go the yearly subscription route in the future?
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Old 09-04-21, 09:46 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
People say that, but I can't imagine better shifting than I get with 7800 shifters and RD, and a 7400 FD. Honestly, I DON'T get better shifting on R7000 105 than I get on much older DA.

Then again, I haven't tried Di2. Probably shouldn't, unless I win the lottery.
In my opinion, 7800 is one of the best groups Shimano ever built. I loved the look and the function. I keep looking for NOS groups to buy. I could live with 10 speed as long as I can get cassettes, chains and chainrings.
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Old 09-04-21, 10:54 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
Regarding 105 electronic, it would seem inevitable since sram already has rival axs at a reasonable price. Shimano has some catching up to do. I've already used Campy 12 mechanical for a year and now over a year on force axs electronic. No regrets about giving up on Campy after 25 years. What I find most impressive is only two shift levers do the same job as four with Campy or Shimano.

It will be interesting to see how cross compatible the sprocket spacing is. Campy and SRAM are nearly identical.
105 mech and rival axs is not comparable. Rival is much more expensive and much heavier too. A new rear DR is either 278 euros or 52 euros! :-)
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Old 09-04-21, 11:10 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by PoorInRichfield View Post
hopefully there will be little or no cassette "bite" like there can be with the 11 speed (i.e., the cogs can start biting into the aluminum splines of the freehub if they freehub isn't torqued down enough.)
The only conceivable way you could get enough friction between cogs and spacers to prevent that before you strip the thread on the lockring would be to install the cassette as an assembly paste sandwich.
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Old 09-04-21, 11:40 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Any chance electronic will go the yearly subscription route in the future?
Pay per gear shift. Expect more cogs if that catches on.
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Old 09-05-21, 05:03 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by znomit View Post
Pay per gear shift. Expect more cogs if that catches on.
Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Any chance electronic will go the yearly subscription route in the future?
I hear they are still working on an all-weather on-the-bars universal card reader, but it might be out in a season or two.
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Old 09-05-21, 05:40 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I hear they are still working on an all-weather on-the-bars universal card reader, but it might be out in a season or two.
They need a coin slot, for the luddites.
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Old 09-05-21, 08:47 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by guachi View Post
Best thing about the new 12-speed is Shimano fixed the crappy spacing on the 11-spd 11-34 cassette. It looks like the new 11-34 12-spd is the old 11-30 11-spd with a 34-tooth cassette added to it.

11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27-30-34 instead of 11-13-15-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34.

The 11-30 12-spd swaps a 16 tooth for the 34 tooth.
Agree. The 11-34 cassette could hit the sweet spot for me. I ride 11-30 11 spd currently but a 34/34 bailout gear would be nice at times.
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Old 09-05-21, 04:20 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by cp88mb1 View Post
Agree. The 11-34 cassette could hit the sweet spot for me. I ride 11-30 11 spd currently but a 34/34 bailout gear would be nice at times.
I hope you mean the 12-34 would do it .... because it would for me. I like that gear progression .... unhappily I will not be able to justify that expenditure for quite a while.
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Old 09-05-21, 04:21 PM
  #115  
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You horrible people .... now you have me wondering .... "If I get new Ultegra 12-speed DI and move the Ultegra 6800 to my other Workswell ... ."

Bunch of danged parts-pushers, that's all you are.
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Old 09-05-21, 04:40 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
105 mech and rival axs is not comparable. Rival is much more expensive and much heavier too. A new rear DR is either 278 euros or 52 euros! :-)
Rival axs is the third level of 12 speed axs. 105 is third level shimano. Seems comparable. Comparing mechanical to electronic makes no sense. You won't get 12 speeds and electronic shifting for free.
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Old 09-06-21, 11:57 AM
  #117  
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@guachi it's funny that you mention the 16 tooth cog. Listened to a podcast with Shimano's US Product Manager and he said many of the world tour pros are clamoring for a return of the 16. What is it about that cog that's magic??
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Old 09-07-21, 06:48 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
My bike would destroy these so-called race bikes in a real race. It's got rim brakes, an alloy frame, tubes, mechanical shifting and exposed cables...
Is this like a Battle Bots thing? How do we set this up? I'd pay to watch this.
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Old 09-07-21, 03:55 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Where are you getting this from? Cycling Tips is indicating that the 50/34 Compact is still here and, for the first time, you can do 1:1 within DA/Ultegra; since there's only one RD cage size (and assuming that there aren't some sub-compact cranks not listed) this seems to mean that the both the DA and Ultegra RDs will handle a 34t out of the box - https://cyclingtips.com/2021/08/new-...thing-to-know/



(my bolding)
I bought my bike with Ultegra Di2, 50/34 up front and 11-34 11 speed on back in Sept. 2019.
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Old 09-07-21, 04:05 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by jconti13 View Post
I bought my bike with Ultegra Di2, 50/34 up front and 11-34 11 speed on back in Sept. 2019.
Sure, but we were talking about stuff that's not available yet.
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Old 09-07-21, 04:15 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Sure, but we were talking about stuff that's not available yet.
Having trouble finding what I originally responded to but I thought the person I replied to said a 1:1 gear was only just now available with Ultegra group set.
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Old 09-07-21, 04:50 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by jconti13 View Post
Having trouble finding what I originally responded to but I thought the person I replied to said a 1:1 gear was only just now available with Ultegra group set.
Ah, that's what you were referring to, in a very indirect way. Take it up with CW, but I assume that they're talking about the entire drivetrain, cassette included, which would have involved going outside of Ultegra/DA, IIRC. Either way, tangential point.
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