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New Dura Ace R9200 announcement on GCN

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New Dura Ace R9200 announcement on GCN

Old 08-31-21, 12:09 PM
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MidTNBrad
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New Dura Ace R9200 announcement on GCN

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Old 08-31-21, 12:45 PM
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Its all over YT. Cycling tips here:

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Old 08-31-21, 01:44 PM
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12sp cassettes fit on current 11sp hubs. good. new wheels/hubs arent needed.
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Old 08-31-21, 01:46 PM
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Biggest news I saw: Ultegra and Dura-Ace are Di2 only. No more mechanical at those levels.
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Old 08-31-21, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
Biggest news I saw: Ultegra and Dura-Ace are Di2 only. No more mechanical at those levels.
But rim and disc are available. Glad they made the shift buttons larger and easier to differentiate.

Sram dropped mechanical shifting also.
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Old 08-31-21, 03:00 PM
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No mention of brake lever reach adjustment. Not being a shimano user, I don't know if this is available. I use it with my sram force axs levers. With sram, having only two contact points controlling all shifting seems like a better idea. Sram batteries last a long time and with a spare, you'll never be out of service. I like taking my batteries to the charger instead of the whole bike. My axs drivetrain has more range. My top gear equals a 53/11 and the low is 31/36 or 31/33. I cheat with shimano grx cranks.
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Old 08-31-21, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
But rim and disc are available. Glad they made the shift buttons larger and easier to differentiate.

Sram dropped mechanical shifting also.
Less support for rim brakes. Sad.
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Old 08-31-21, 03:57 PM
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No more 53/39, wut I run. I guess I was the last one.
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Old 08-31-21, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
No mention of brake lever reach adjustment. Not being a shimano user, I don't know if this is available.
It is.
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Old 08-31-21, 04:18 PM
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Only difference between Dura-ace and Ultegra is 200g and $1700.

I wonder how long before this makes it to the 105 level...one can dream.
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Old 08-31-21, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
12sp cassettes fit on current 11sp hubs. good. new wheels/hubs arent needed.
^ This was the news I was hoping for.

Very surprised to see Ultegra go 12-speed at the same time - plus both Dura Ace and Ultegra going Di2 only! No mechanical version.


I'm still trying to confirm whether my new bike (on order for a while) will come with the 11-speed or 12-speed version of Dura Ace Di2, hopefully it's the latter!
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Old 08-31-21, 05:11 PM
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Yeah, 53/39 with an 11 cog is probably not the most in demand setup.
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Old 08-31-21, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Yeah, 53/39 with an 11 cog is probably not the most in demand setup.
Instead, they're offering a 54/40.
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Old 09-01-21, 02:33 AM
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It's a sad day. Still today, most frames being ridden have cable housing stops all over them so if you want to upgrade to a new Ultegra group it's going to look like crap. So stupid. I think I'm about to order an R8000 group just to have before they totally disappear, which won't be long. Matter of fact, if I was smart I'd buy a bunch of R8000 stuff now and make a nice profit in the future.
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Old 09-01-21, 03:06 AM
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Profit from antiquated mechanical drivetrains? I don't think so.

I will ride my last mechanical generation Dura Ace for years to come (it really is great), when it is time to upgrade the bike I will go with electronic DA with hydraulic discs and everything integrated. Really dig the new generation Dura-ace.
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Old 09-01-21, 03:21 AM
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Exciting stuff. But, until I can score a new groupset, I'm just going to sit over here and eat popcorn while the luddites bemoan that they don't want electronic shifting or disc brakes, and then tell us their 20-year old frames can't run this stuff...giggling my ass off because if they had bothered to buy even one new bike or a groupset in the last 10, or even 5, years with mechanical shifting and rim brakes they could have voted their preference for these things. Let's face it Shimano (and other component manufacturers) care about what they are selling, not what we are riding...and if you aren't buying, you aren't voting. But, guess what, guys like me who have bought 3 bikes and 2 new groupsets in the last 4 years did vote, and Shimano heard us, because...well, you get the idea.

Electronic shifting, disc brakes, 12-speed...none of that was foisted on us, it is because those of us who bought stuff in the last few years sent clear signals through our purchasing that we wanted those things. If you weren't buying, sure, you feel like it was forced on you, but don't get mad at Shimano, get mad at me.

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Old 09-01-21, 03:32 AM
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But, Kimmo will be happy to know that the venerable cup-and-cone (bane of my existence...I can never seem to get it just right, probably need more practice) have remained in the hubs.
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Old 09-01-21, 05:46 AM
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Great opportunity for Microshift. There's a void waiting to be filled.
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Old 09-01-21, 06:45 AM
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What's old is new again. What happened to the compact? Sure seems to be some big rings on the front for the average Joe. How're they going to get up the hills on a 54/40 11-28? I've been saying it for some time. Once the FD becomes electronic, you'll see the return of the triple. I'm guessing when the trickle down goes to the other groups you'll see a 54/40/28 or 30 crank become available. Might even see it on these two.
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Old 09-01-21, 06:57 AM
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I'm wondering when either group set will actually be available for purchase and delivery. One video stated, "You *should* be able to buy bikes with the new Dura Ace right now." I'd be surprised if the average person (in the USA) will be able to get their hands on these group sets before 2023 with all the inventory issues currently going on. I'm sure you'll be able to place an order for a bike or the group sets right now, but who knows when you'll actually get either.

That aside, I like all the incremental refinements that appear to be in the new group sets. In the 25+ years I've been riding Shimano, each new group set has been "just a little better" than the last and the 12 speed groups appear to continue that tradition. I'm fine with the mechanical group sets going away, but I'd have to think that'll leave quite a price gap between a mechanical 105 equipped bike and an Ultegra Di2 equipped bike unless Shimano radically drops the price of the new Di2 (not holding my breath on that!)

This video helped me understand some of the design decisions in the new group sets, such as the symmetrical crank design, the larger brake levers, mountain bike calipers, etc.:

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Old 09-01-21, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Badger6 View Post
Exciting stuff. But, until I can score a new groupset, I'm just going to sit over here and eat popcorn while the luddites bemoan that they don't want electronic shifting or disc brakes, and then tell us their 20-year old frames can't run this stuff...giggling my ass off because if they had bothered to buy even one new bike or a groupset in the last 10, or even 5, years with mechanical shifting and rim brakes they could have voted their preference for these things. Let's face it Shimano (and other component manufacturers) care about what they are selling, not what we are riding...and if you aren't buying, you aren't voting. But, guess what, guys like me who have bought 3 bikes and 2 new groupsets in the last 4 years did vote, and Shimano heard us, because...well, you get the idea.

Electronic shifting, disc brakes, 12-speed...none of that was foisted on us, it is because those of us who bought stuff in the last few years sent clear signals through our purchasing that we wanted those things. If you weren't buying, sure, you feel like it was forced on you, but don't get mad at Shimano, get mad at me.
So you claim that if people with bikes that work perfectly well had spent more money and consumed more, even though they didnt need to, we wouldnt have electronic shifting and disc brakes?
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Old 09-01-21, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Great opportunity for Microshift. There's a void waiting to be filled.
For sure. They just need to figure out a workaround to allow their dual paddle tech to shift while routing shift cables under the bar tape. I am pretty sure exposed cables is a hard pass moving forward for most consumers.
Since SRAM seems to be done with doubletap, itd be neat if they licensed it out to Microshift which would solve the exposed cables.
Microshift does have some road shifters with hidden cables, but they have that thumb button for shifting too. The dual paddle style they designed is really kinda nice.
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Old 09-01-21, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
What's old is new again. What happened to the compact? Sure seems to be some big rings on the front for the average Joe. How're they going to get up the hills on a 54/40 11-28? I've been saying it for some time. Once the FD becomes electronic, you'll see the return of the triple. I'm guessing when the trickle down goes to the other groups you'll see a 54/40/28 or 30 crank become available. Might even see it on these two.
Where are you getting this from? Cycling Tips is indicating that the 50/34 Compact is still here and, for the first time, you can do 1:1 within DA/Ultegra; since there's only one RD cage size (and assuming that there aren't some sub-compact cranks not listed) this seems to mean that the both the DA and Ultegra RDs will handle a 34t out of the box - https://cyclingtips.com/2021/08/new-...thing-to-know/

Up front are some revamped chainring pairings — 50/34T, 52/36T, and 54/40T — and as expected, the outer chainrings are hollow aluminum pieces for vastly improved bending rigidity (and shift performance) relative to more traditional flat-plate construction. Notably missing from that list is the traditional 53/39T, which Shimano says just wasn’t big enough for how much faster top racers are moving these days. But at the other end, the new cassette options mean that — for the first time ever — you can now get a factory 1:1 climbing gear with Dura-Ace and Ultegra without having to resort to aftermarket components. Yes, yes, and more yes.
(my bolding)
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Old 09-01-21, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Badger6 View Post
Electronic shifting, disc brakes, 12-speed...none of that was foisted on us, it is because those of us who bought stuff in the last few years sent clear signals through our purchasing that we wanted those things. If you weren't buying, sure, you feel like it was forced on you, but don't get mad at Shimano, get mad at me.
The issue, if there is one, is not so much the notion that there is no longer mechanical shifting, but that there's no option to not pay the ~$1K that is seen as the typical add-on for Di2. If Di2 were always sold at the same price as mech, I'd guess that there'd be much less grumbling.
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Old 09-01-21, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
For sure. They just need to figure out a workaround to allow their dual paddle tech to shift while routing shift cables under the bar tape. I am pretty sure exposed cables is a hard pass moving forward for most consumers.
Since SRAM seems to be done with doubletap, itd be neat if they licensed it out to Microshift which would solve the exposed cables.
Microshift does have some road shifters with hidden cables, but they have that thumb button for shifting too. The dual paddle style they designed is really kinda nice.
I used some R9s for the first time this past weekend on a century. They work good. Easy to set up. Took 1 two mile shakedown ride, then shipped the bike to it's destination. Pulled it out of the box. No adjustment needed. They were paired with a Sakae crank, Deore RD and Suntour FD. The key here is the 12 speed will work on the 11 speed hubs. That being the case, all Microshift has to do is offer some shifters and derailleurs that work. They also as you stated, have to have the cables hidden.
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