smashndash

Nah. Pretty much all specialized road bikes upto 2019 or 2020 used BB30. It works pretty decently if you use a non-BB30 crank + a good BB. For example, I have a Hambini BB + shimano crank on my BB30 and it works incredibly well.

But yes, do not use straight BB30 with a real BB30 crank and direct fit bearings. That's asking for trouble. Eg Sworks crank or Hollowgram. Specialized went BSA and Cannondale now uses BB30A (basically BB30) only for alloy bikes. Carbon bikes now use PF30A which makes it easier for them to mask their horrible manufacturing

DaveSSS 

My solution for my frames with bb86 press fit bottom brackets is a wheels manufacturing thread together BB with angular contact bearings for shimano 24mm spindle cranks. The two halves of the BB shell are torqued together at 50Nm. No creaks and easy to adjust bearings.

blacknbluebikes 

Yawn. Green Loctite. Next?

Maelochs

Go to Wheels Mfg. and see if they sell something which might help.

Hiro11

Setting aside stiffness and lightness claims (both of which are real but in my opinion likely not very meaningful in the real world) the main benefit of press fit ironically has to do with reliability. Manufactured correctly, press fit will result in better bearing alignment than threaded. Raoul at Leuscher Teknik and Hambini both have videos explaining this:

Calmer but less complete explanation:

Annoyingly trying to be edgy but has a complete explanation starting at 11:50

To summarize what they say, threads need a bit of "slop" to work properly. Press fit does not need this slop. By removing this slop, it's much more likely for the bearings to be well aligned. Bearing misalignment is by far the most common cause of bottom bracket issues. As a result, if you manufacture a BB correctly it is theoretically more likely to run smoothly and less likely to have problems. It's the "theoretical" part that's the issue because press fit relies on higher manufacturing tolerances than threaded. Note that the manufacturing tolerances required by press fit aren't unachievable by any means, but they are tighter.

I think the main benefit of threaded BBs is that they're easier to work on. I can replace the threaded BB with a $10 tool if you have an issue and simply lubing the threads will quiet most BBs. On the other hand, properly pressing in new bearings if necessary isn't that hard either. Also, it's worth nothing that press fit is the standard world wide for every bearing. Threads are a holdover from an older age of manufacturing. The underlying engineering and tolerance requirements of press fit bearings are mature and well understood. Bikes are more weight sensitive than many other bearing application which introduces some difficulty, but this is a solvable problem.

smashndash

I think the whole "easy to work on" angle of threaded BBs is a false flag. It normalizes the idea that the BB is supposed to wear out every 2000 miles or so and you're supposed to get a new one and "easily replace it".

A contact sealed bottom bracket with good alignment should last practically indefinitely. People probably recall how long square taper BBs used to last. My bike with a Hambini BB has noncontact seals and steel bearings. I, being an idiot, pressure washed the crap out of them and they rusted through. Despite this, I took them apart, cleaned them and regreased them. it's still clicky but it somehow spins faster than probably 90% of bottom brackets out there. Bearing quality and maintenance mean jack if the alignment is bad. And the alignment is quite frequently bad on carbon frames. It's actually tragic.

Point

?? I’ve never had a threaded BB give up the ghost after only 2k miles. One bike has a high quality cup and cone with at least 5x that mileage on it. Another with s Shimano sealed unit also has much more than that. 5k miles at a bare minimum, and normally much more

smashndash

Hm. How many of those were carbon road bikes? Just curious.

The things that make pressfit BBs not last long can happen with threaded BBs too. I'm just saying we need to be wary of bike manufacturers using the ease of replacement as a way to create a new normal.

Point

None, but that was never a qualifier in your statement. Bottom line is that a quality threaded BB will last far beyond your stated lifespan regardless of the frame material.

smashndash

Um. What. That is literally my entire point. That carbon frames suck. And the ease of service of threaded BBs allows them to get away with continuing to make crappy carbon frames. Metal frames are practically no longer part of the mainstream road discussion.

Metal frames are *easy* to manufacture to required tolerances. And there is practically no difference between threaded and pressfit BBs in terms of longevity. And I never claimed otherwise. Please re-read what I posted.

Branko D

I'd go press fit, myself.
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On my road bike I have right now a Praxis works thread together PF30-GXP BB which at 8000km is still spinning every bit as smoothly as I remember it doing when new.

TT bike is PF30 and thousands of kilometers later (wife isn't persnickety about tracking bike miles, I've done about a thousand kilometers on it on the turbo) the factory bearings - your standard Ultegra level press fit BB - spins smoothly, no issues whatsoever with it.

Press fit with a solid one piece BB is sort of the ultimate setup on a carbon fiber bike, the alignment of the bearings will be better than both threaded inserts done well (which it doesn't have to be) and most press fit shells, which means the least possible friction and longest possible bearing life. More expensive initially, though.

prj71

^^^This.

MY PF BB days are over. Every. Single. One. Nothing but problems.

Only reason bike manufactures started using PF is because it was easier and faster to assemble going down the production line and a slight weight savings. They are now starting to switch back to threaded after they realized it cost them more in warranty work claims than using a threaded BB.

Hiro11

Again, not all press fit standards are the same and not all manufacturers are the same. Someone that has a Trek with a BB90 is not going to have the same experience as someone with a Giant with a BB86 (for example). Treks with BB90s generally are problem prone, Giants with BB86s are generally problem free.

Maybe a little oversimplified but likely true. This is debatable. I think the switch had more to do with customer preference. A threaded BB is a big selling point for lots of people buying high end bikes.

prj71

My last road bike was a Giant. After a year of ownership the BB started creaking. Replaced it with a new one and less than a year later started creaking again.

Same situation with my Cannondale Mountain Bike I had and My Specialized Fat Bike that I had.

It's absolutely true. Threading and facing frames is more costly and so is the labor to install the threaded BB which slows down the production line.

It is a customer preference!! Customers prefer to have a quiet bike and not one that creaks with every rotation of the crank!!! That and threaded cups can be serviced with simple wrenches and threaded cups allow component makers to have complete control over every moving part of the crankset from pedal to pedal.

Branko D

Customer preference, indeed. I opt for pressfit, but I can understand people who just don't care and simply want it not to creak regardless of anything; threaded is unlikely to creak even if it was made crooked, while a crooked pressfit frame will require some sort of fix.

Maelochs

Don't tell this to the disc brake haters .... they Know that no matter what Big Bike sells what it wants, not what the customers want.

Maelochs

Also .... I am hearing all about these threaded BBs which are so badly made they can barely be used .... for ten or twenty years.

I call BS. Press-fit went through several years of drama, because of production tolerances, different expansion rates and wear rates of materials, maybe sloppy install ---whatever reasons----..... manufacturers resorted to telling people to use two types of Locktite to get the cups to stay properly in place ....

Threaded BBs have been around forever and have been in use, some of them, for almost that long.

Do some threaded BBs lose a thousandth of a watt due to friction because they are a millionth of a millimeter off---maybe, but I haven't seen any evidence or heard any complaints.

On the other hand, the whole industry has been forced to back away from Pressfit because of creaking, which is the audible result of power-robbing, frame-wearing alignment issues.

Sorry, threaded BB haters, your mystic voodoo invisible misalignment issue is exactly that. The BBs work really, really well for a really long time. PFs often suck. And if manufacturers cannot make frames and threaded BBs to a sufficient standard, why would anyone think they could make Pressfits, with tighter tolerances, to an acceptable standard?

Given that only a few years after the whole industry started shifting to Pressfit, it is now shifting away, you have to see that there is something wrong in a big way with Pressfit. As others have said, they are simpler and easier to manufacture and install--they Save bike manufacturers Money. If the industry is going from simpler and cheaper and more profitable to something else ... you know there were serious problems with Pressfit. Somewhere the industry was losing out with Pressfit or we wouldn't be seeing the industry looking at so many options.

And yes, there are unquestionably a few Pressfit set-ups where everything worked, either with or without Locktite. However, an industry needs to look at bigger pictures. "We got it right a few times" doesn't offset "This technology is costing us money and customers."

The fact that Nobody Ever said "These threaded BBs are cheap unreliable crap" sort of caps the discussion. Heavier? for sure. More involved to install? Yup. Nearly bullet-proof? And there you have it.

In any case, Wheels manufacturing makes a variety of thread-together---not thread-in---BBs which don't depend on the threads in the frame being perfect--or there being threads at all. I have tossed all my pressfit BBs and only use Wheels thread-togethers. I Never need to worry about BB noise, or any sort of failure. In some years, I will simply replace the pop-out cartridge bearings and use them for the rest of my life.

prj71

The Wheels Manufacturing thread together cups is what I had to do to fix the creaking on my Specialized Fat Bike.

Specialized has now switched the majority of it's bikes back to threaded BB. Even my new Trek Domane is threaded BB. That was one of the reasons I bought it over another brand.

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/bb90-vs-t47/

And they following suit with the Madone...

https://bikerumor.com/2021/08/23/tre...rs-and-t47-bb/

tomato coupe

Who are these people? I've never heard or read anyone stating they hate threaded bottom brackets.

chaadster

I think some people are conflating threaded bottom brackets with cartridge bottom brackets.

Hiro11

To add my anecdote, I'm on my third season with about 15K miles on a Giant TCR with a BB86 and zero issues. In talking to mechanics I ride with, BB86 is generally less problematic than Trek's BB90, Cannondale's BB30a and Specialized's OSBB (which is essentially BB30). In my experience of riding with lots of people, that's also what I've seen anecdotally with Treks being probably the worst.

BTW, I know many, many people who own a Specialized Fatboy and every single one of them has had issues with the BB. This is probably because fat bikes are generally ridden in awful conditions, but I also think Specialized really cheaped out on making the shells for those bikes.

Branko D

Specialized and Trek are moving to threaded, but they are the two brands which had big issues with tolerances on their press fit standards. Which is ironic because they're certainly premium priced, but whatever. Canyon, Giant, and a number of others are sticking with PF. Eh, preferences 🤷

The next build I do next year will be probably a Canyon Ultimate CFR (wife wants a light bike, must have discs and electronic shifting) which is a press fit, and then​​ a BBInfinite one piece BB unit, perfect alignment, quality bearings and just knock out the bearings and press new ones in when they wear out, couldn't be simpler.
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Hiro11

The bike I'm building up this winter (assuming I can get a group) has a T47. That seems to be the emerging "standard".

prj71

Funny you say that. My last Mountain bike was a Cannondale. The BB30 on that was horrible. Had to replace/fix every few hundred miles. And I had an aluminum Specialized Fat Boy also with the same problem.

I now have a 2018 carbon Fat Boy that does have a PF BB and within 3 months it started to creak. Brought it back to bike shop and they fixed it and it has been fine ever since. But I'm confident it will start creaking again.

My Niner Hardtail I had to buy the Wheels Manufacturing thread together cups to get rid of the creaking.

My full suspension carbon mountain bike with threaded BB...zero problems. Quiet as can be.

PeteHski

Canyon are edging their bets a little with most of their mountain bikes on threaded BBs. But their lightest XC bike is PF as of course are all their road bikes.

Only PF BB I've had any issue with was on my 2015 Specialized Enduro, which got a bit creaky after a while. The shop sorted it though.

My Giant Defy BB is holding up well after 15k miles. Can't fault it.