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The death of rim brakes, disc brakes now unanimous in the pro peloton...

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The death of rim brakes, disc brakes now unanimous in the pro peloton...

Old 09-21-21, 08:41 AM
  #26  
mstateglfr 
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
On another related note, the second round of that tournament, or the year after, was the one where Notay Begay shot his 59. We had finished up for the day. I was hanging around the leaderboard where the scores are posted seeing if we had a chance of making the cut. Word spread that Begay was going low, so people headed across the course to cheer him on. It was impressive to watch.
Oh, so you looped on the Nike Tour? Begay was a really interesting story- Native American and multi-All American in college, but pretty much unknown until his breakout in '98-2000. It was such a sudden rise with multiple wins in a couple of seasons after his secured his card. And his decision to putt based on the break of each putt is super unique.
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Old 09-21-21, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Discs are superior in every way.
This is true if you consider heavier and more expensive superior
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Old 09-21-21, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
This is true if you consider heavier and more expensive superior
Disc brake wheel rims can be made lighter than rim brake wheels so the weight factor becomes a wash.

While disc brake bikes do cost more than rim brakes that cost can be negated in the long term when you consider the longer pad life and lack of rim wear that disc brakes offer.
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Old 09-21-21, 09:10 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Disc brake wheel rims can be made lighter than rim brake wheels so the weight factor becomes a wash.

While disc brake bikes do cost more than rim brakes that cost can be negated in the long term when you consider the longer pad life and lack of rim wear that disc brakes offer.
Neither of those things are true. Show me your lightest disk brake bike, and I can make a lighter one for the same money with rim brakes. The second one it's such a ridiculous claim it doesn't even warrant a response.

It's fine if you love disk brakes or whatever, but they are not superior in every way. If they were, I would like them too, and I don't.
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Old 09-21-21, 09:10 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Oh, so you looped on the Nike Tour? Begay was a really interesting story- Native American and multi-All American in college, but pretty much unknown until his breakout in '98-2000. It was such a sudden rise with multiple wins in a couple of seasons after his secured his card. And his decision to putt based on the break of each putt is super unique.
I live in the Richmond VA area. They had, maybe still have an event. I know they still have a senior event and maybe a lower level ladies event yearly. I quit golf all together around 10 years ago. Anyway, I would take vacation days that week and caddie in the event. They wanted decent local players with some knowledge. They were cheaper to hire than the regular caddies. I got paid $100 a day! I'd done it for free. Also, if you signed up as a volunteer, you got a free round on the course and got fed for the week. I did it for about 5 years before life got in the way. It was awesome! Let me be clear, I wouldn't want to do it for a living. It's a gypsy's/carnie's life. Living out of a suitcase. But a few times a year is a great vacation. 3 of the players I looped made it to the PGA Tour. One has some wins and top 5/10 finishes in the majors. I'm not going to mention his name, but his story shows how important the mental side of sports is. I'll send you a PM.

Last edited by seypat; 09-21-21 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 09-21-21, 09:39 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
Neither of those things are true. Show me your lightest disk brake bike, and I can make a lighter one for the same money with rim brakes. The second one it's such a ridiculous claim it doesn't even warrant a response.
Disc brake wheel rims can also be made lighter than rim brake wheels. In a rim brake design, the need to handle the compressive force of the brake pads, the expansive force of the tyre and the heat generated by braking require greater strength and heat dissipation than a disc brake rim, where it’s just the tyre pressure that needs to be handled. It’s easier to optimise the rim’s aerodynamics when designing for disc brakes too.

Likewise, disc brake frames can be built differently to rim brake frames. While there’s a need to beef up the left fork leg and left-side chainstay, there’s less force acting on other parts of the frame, which can be thinned out.

The biggest advantage of rim brakes is weight. Although disc and rim brake components themselves aren’t very different weight-wise, once you add the rotor, the system weight of a disc brake setup is typically a few hundred grams greater. However, as we’ve covered in the previous section, wheels and frames for the latest generation of bikes can compensate for this.

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/r...-need-to-know/


Disc brakes can be cheaper (in the long term). Okay. We know that earlier we made the point that rim brakes are less expensive than disc brakes – but this is only true initially. As the name suggests, a rim brake calliper stops your bike by applying pressure to the rim of the wheel. When this is extrapolated over months and years, the braking surface on the rim wears out, meaning you may need to replace your wheelset every couple of seasons. Unfortunately, this can cost hundreds, if not, thousands of pounds. By contrast, a disc brake clasps onto a rotor which is comparatively far cheaper. By wearing out a rotor instead of a wheel, a disc brake system will reduce the cost of replacement parts considerably over time.

https://www.probikekit.co.uk/blog/gu...s-disc-brakes/
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Old 09-21-21, 09:52 AM
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prj71 , That's exactly what I would say if I were trying to market road disks because it's at least somewhat plausible at the very-very top of the market. For the vast majority of people who don't race bikes for a living, you can (or at least used to be able to) get a bike that is both cheaper and lighter if you go with rim brakes.
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Old 09-21-21, 10:05 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
While disc brake bikes do cost more than rim brakes that cost can be negated in the long term when you consider the longer pad life and lack of rim wear that disc brakes offer.
Comparing rim brake shoes to disc brake pads, the former has both a larger actual braking surface and thicker friction material than the latter. Although the respective friction materials are (of course) different, I have not heard anyone else claim that disc brake pad life is longer than rim brake shoe life except prj71 .
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Old 09-21-21, 10:15 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Who said anything about hating disc brakes? I might prefer discs also. But that's not the point here. The OP started a thread stating that the pros prefer disc brakes because there are no rim brakes in the peloton. There's a chance that could be an accurate statement, but maybe not. The point is that the teams/riders use what their sponsors/partners/endorsers tell them to use, not necessarily what they want to use. The product/item they use might be better, or it might not be.

More important here is that the endorsement did it's job for the OP. He/she took a look at that and decided to start a thread about it. Win win for the new product.
All I'm saying is that the engineering comes before the marketing. Tech that doesn't work doesn't survive long (however well it is marketed) and certainly doesn't take over 100% of the upper end market like disc brakes pretty much have.
You are always going to get individuals who dislike whatever new tech comes along. You see that with any new technology, however good it is.

We're not talking about individual products being endorsed here. Like Campag vs Shimano or Vittoria vs Conti, where one product of the same type might be better than another. This is a fundamental technology change from rim to disc brakes.

Anyway this is the stuff of bike forum legend. Nobody is going to change their mind about disc vs rim brakes.
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Old 09-21-21, 10:19 AM
  #35  
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If rim breaks are dead, I hope no one tells all those bikes hanging in my garage. Including the one I rode to work today.
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Old 09-21-21, 10:27 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
All I'm saying is that the engineering comes before the marketing. Tech that doesn't work doesn't survive long (however well it is marketed) and certainly doesn't take over 100% of the upper end market like disc brakes pretty much have.
You are always going to get individuals who dislike whatever new tech comes along. You see that with any new technology, however good it is.

We're not talking about individual products being endorsed here. Like Campag vs Shimano or Vittoria vs Conti, where one product of the same type might be better than another. This is a fundamental technology change from rim to disc brakes.

Anyway this is the stuff of bike forum legend. Nobody is going to change their mind about disc vs rim brakes.
I would certainly agree with your last statement.
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Old 09-21-21, 11:04 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
prj71 , That's exactly what I would say if I were trying to market road disks because it's at least somewhat plausible at the very-very top of the market. For the vast majority of people who don't race bikes for a living, you can (or at least used to be able to) get a bike that is both cheaper and lighter if you go with rim brakes.

I guess the bottom line is...Whether you like it or not...just like mountain bikes...rim brakes are slowly being phased out on road bikes. It won't be long before you won't be able to buy a road bike with rim brakes.

Want a road bike from Trek with rim brakes? They have exactly two that they will sell you.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...ort=price-asc#

And they even have a 15 lb bike with disc brakes!!!
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Old 09-21-21, 11:07 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
If rim breaks are dead, I hope no one tells all those bikes hanging in my garage. Including the one I rode to work today.
You'll still be able to buy parts for them in the future. That's different than saying they are dead.

In the world of brand new road bikes being sold right now...rim breaks are pretty much dead.
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Old 09-21-21, 11:30 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
You'll still be able to buy parts for them in the future. That's different than saying they are dead.

In the world of brand new road bikes being sold right now...rim breaks are pretty much dead.
Winner winner, chicken dinner. People will either buy new road bikes or they won't. Some will go in between and buy ones that are a couple of years old. And so it goes.
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Old 09-21-21, 11:33 AM
  #40  
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Refresh my memory here, since the thread may evolve. Does disc technology have it's standards, or is it mostly companies with proprietary products fighting it out to become THE standard? That's a whole different can of worms if the latter.
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Old 09-21-21, 11:47 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Branko D View Post
While pros ride what they are sponsored to ride, the impetus to stop making frames rim brake compatible comes from consumers overwhelmingly buying disc brake bikes.

​​​​​
Seriously?

No one on this forum, no one on your local club ride, or anywhere was asking for disc brake road bikes in any great number. They were all still in search of ever-lighter road bikes, light frames, light components, faster wheels, and so on. I can't remember a single post here begging and pleading for disc brake road bikes. The industry saw dollar signs at the idea of forcing every road cyclist on the planet to buy a new bike (and, at the same time, lowering its production costs by making road, gravel and CX parts all standardized), and it aggressively went after that initiative by either making its entire lineup disc, or its most desirable bikes disc-only, and then marketing the daylights out of it so people had no other choice but buy disc.

I'm not saying disc brakes aren't better, or that they aren't advantageous for some riders' environments, but this shift was engineered by a financially sagging cycling industry that needed to boost sales and lower costs, not by public demand.
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Old 09-21-21, 11:55 AM
  #42  
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I took my bike out for a ride today and my rim brakes seem to no longer work. What a shame, in the trash it goes.
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Old 09-21-21, 11:58 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
And they even have a 15 lb bike with disc brakes!!!
They used to sell an 11-pound bike with rim brakes, the Emonda SLR 10.

The Emonda ALR 5 I bought in 2015 had an inflation-adjusted price of around $1900 in 2021 USD. A current-generation Emonda ALR 5 with disc brakes has a showroom weight of around 1.5lbs heavier and costs $2150. That added weight is admittedly with 28mm tires instead of 23mm tires, but that hardly explains the gap. And the price premium existed prior to the COVID supply shortage.
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Old 09-21-21, 12:07 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Refresh my memory here, since the thread may evolve. Does disc technology have it's standards, or is it mostly companies with proprietary products fighting it out to become THE standard? That's a whole different can of worms if the latter.
It's pretty much set in road terms, other than the freedom of choice between 140mm or 160mm rotors. There's also the method of fastening the rotor to the hub, Centerlock vs 6-bolt, but CL is the more versatile of the two and seems to be pushing 6-bolt out to pasture.
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Old 09-21-21, 12:35 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
It somewhat seems that the popularity of disc brakes went hand-in-hand with the increased popularity of going to wider tires. Would the adoption of disc brakes have happened to the same extent, if in an alternate universe, narrow tires were still de rigueur? Chicken or the egg?
Im absolutely sure this is a factor. I was always used to calipers and frames being designed to absolutely hug the outside of a 23c or even 20c tire for aero reasons. Even cantilever and v-brakes have a limit on the size of tire you can squeeze under the brake cable.
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Old 09-21-21, 12:37 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Dreww10 View Post
No one on this forum, no one on your local club ride, or anywhere was asking for disc brake road bikes in any great number. .
How do you know this?

When I bought a road bike in 2016 one of the qualifiers for me was that it had to have disc brakes.

It's kinda funny how contentious a better braking system has become. It's really a no brainer.
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Old 09-21-21, 12:39 PM
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Rivendell will still have the rim brakes.
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Old 09-21-21, 12:39 PM
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Pro racers often exceed 50 mph on downhill runs and do worry about heating the rim with standard brakes which have been little changed over the past 100 years. With disc rotors that is no longer a concern. With a good rear disc brake there is also less need for a front brake and these may disappear on bike built for time trials.

Pro racers need to win and if that means Shimano disc brakes instead of Shimano V-brakes that is what they will insist on using. It does not matter so much about the sponsor and often racers have used different bits of gear carefully disguised so as not to show up in the photos. Even the frames may have a given brand name but are hand built to the rider's specifications and this has been going on for as long as there has been professional bike racing.
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Old 09-21-21, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
Rivendell will still have the rim brakes.
My sources tell me Ineos is negotiating a sponsorship deal with Rivendell for next season.
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Old 09-21-21, 12:43 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Calsun View Post
With a good rear disc brake there is also less need for a front brake ...
I find this statement ... humorous.
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