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The death of rim brakes, disc brakes now unanimous in the pro peloton...

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The death of rim brakes, disc brakes now unanimous in the pro peloton...

Old 09-21-21, 12:44 PM
  #51  
Dreww10
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
How do you know this?

When I bought a road bike in 2016 one of the qualifiers for me was that it had to have disc brakes.

It's kinda funny how contentious a better braking system has become. It's really a no brainer.
It's contentious because it's absolute, and not necessary for all. You can put EFI or disc brakes on an old car, and ample resources exist to retrofit new parts to old cars and vice versa, so nobody is forced to go buy a new car. But with roads bikes, there is no in between...you either buy a new bike, or you ride what you have until the parts wear out and then give up the hobby. They are forcing you to upgrade. And they are forcing you to upgrade from something that, as all of the recent grand tours have proven, still works just as good as a disc brake bike.

Not sure if you've noticed, but between the added cost of disc brakes and price increases caused by parts shortages, new road bikes cost considerably more relative to wages than ever before, meaning more people are going to be caught in the position of being unable to go out and buy a new bike and instead looking to upgrade their existing one.
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Old 09-21-21, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Dreww10 View Post
Seriously?

No one on this forum, no one on your local club ride, or anywhere was asking for disc brake road bikes in any great number. They were all still in search of ever-lighter road bikes, light frames, light components, faster wheels, and so on. I can't remember a single post here begging and pleading for disc brake road bikes. The industry saw dollar signs at the idea of forcing every road cyclist on the planet to buy a new bike (and, at the same time, lowering its production costs by making road, gravel and CX parts all standardized), and it aggressively went after that initiative by either making its entire lineup disc, or its most desirable bikes disc-only, and then marketing the daylights out of it so people had no other choice but buy disc.

I'm not saying disc brakes aren't better, or that they aren't advantageous for some riders' environments, but this shift was engineered by a financially sagging cycling industry that needed to boost sales and lower costs, not by public demand.
This forum is largely populated by people who rode road bikes before disc brakes were available. And so, by people who already owned bikes with Rim brakes, with which they were perfectly happy.

The bike industry is trying to sell bikes, so by default they are selling them to people who either don’t own a bike, or are for some reason unhappy with the bike they have.

Nobody is forcing YOU to buy a disc brake bike to replace the rim brake bike you already have, any more than they forced you to replace your downtube shifters in the 90s. But all new bikes are going to have discs going forward. And we all have to get used to it, for better or worse.
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Old 09-21-21, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Dreww10 View Post
Seriously?

No one on this forum, no one on your local club ride, or anywhere was asking for disc brake road bikes in any great number. They were all still in search of ever-lighter road bikes, light frames, light components, faster wheels, and so on. I can't remember a single post here begging and pleading for disc brake road bikes. The industry saw dollar signs at the idea of forcing every road cyclist on the planet to buy a new bike (and, at the same time, lowering its production costs by making road, gravel and CX parts all standardized), and it aggressively went after that initiative by either making its entire lineup disc, or its most desirable bikes disc-only, and then marketing the daylights out of it so people had no other choice but buy disc.

I'm not saying disc brakes aren't better, or that they aren't advantageous for some riders' environments, but this shift was engineered by a financially sagging cycling industry that needed to boost sales and lower costs, not by public demand.
Yes, seriously. Vocal minority on forums professing their love for steel frames, mechanical groupsets, rim brakes and other sorts of retro stuff isn't representative of what people are actually buying 😉

Of course nobody was asking for disc brakes before they existed, but now they are out there and work well, every single rider I rode with who tried disc brakes said he wasn't going to buy a rim brake bike ever. Several riders from my triathlon club said they wish they had discs after rainy races on CF wheels and said their next bike would have discs. New roadies I know who came from MTB or other bikes where discs are standard fare just didn't even consider rim brakes as an option.
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There's no conspiracy. The bike industry made a better product and people are overwhelmingly buying it. They wouldn't have discounted rim brake models if they sold as well. ​​​​They didn't, however.

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Old 09-21-21, 12:57 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Branko D View Post
There's no conspiracy. The bike industry made a better product and people are overwhelmingly buying it. They wouldn't have discounted rim brake models if they sold as well. ​​​​They didn't, however.​​
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100% Correct.

Look at any brand’s 2021 lineup of road bikes, and you’ll notice one common trend: They all have disc brakes. This shouldn’t come as a surprise. After all, rim brake–equipped road bikes have been fading from existence since 2011, when disc brakes first appeared on road bikes. In 2018, eight of the 12 Trek Émonda models had rim brakes; of the 10 models in the 2021 lineup, zero do.

That’s because, in the same way more riders acknowledged decades ago that integrated shift/brake levers were better than down-tube shifters because they were ergonomically better and made shifting faster and easier, they also recognize that disc brakes are superior to rim brakes—and they’re saying so with their wallets. I spoke to reps at more than a dozen bike companies, and each said something similar: Not only is the public not buying rim-brake bikes, but the suddenness with which it happened even caught brands off-guard.

“Riders stopped buying rim-brake road bikes before we stopped offering them,” said Jordan Roessingh,
Trek’s road director. “Even when we offered rim-brake models, the demand for them rapidly decreased over the past two years, and, inversely, demand for the disc-brake road bike increased at an almost astonishing pace.

Fisher Curran, BMC’s North American marketing coordinator, told me: “We’re releasing our new 2021 lineup with drastically reduced rim-brake platforms. I think we only have one bike offering with both rim and disc.” Even some smaller brands don’t see enough demand to continue with rim brakes—representatives from Argonaut and Allied told me they discontinued their rim-brake models due to lack of interest.


https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...of-rim-brakes/
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Old 09-21-21, 12:58 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Dreww10 View Post
No one on this forum, no one on your local club ride, or anywhere was asking for disc brake road bikes in any great number.
Hard to argue with this - most buyers just wanted one or two of them.
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Old 09-21-21, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
I guess the bottom line is...Whether you like it or not...just like mountain bikes...rim brakes are slowly being phased out on road bikes. It won't be long before you won't be able to buy a road bike with rim brakes.

Want a road bike from Trek with rim brakes? They have exactly two that they will sell you.
I'm not too worried about it. I don't buy bikes off the peg, and there will always be rim brakes available for people like me who don't care about one-finger stopping power going down a mountain in the rain.
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Old 09-21-21, 01:10 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Leinster View Post
Nobody is forcing YOU to buy a disc brake bike to replace the rim brake bike you already have, any more than they forced you to replace your downtube shifters in the 90s. But all new bikes are going to have discs going forward. And we all have to get used to it, for better or worse.
Actually they are. If my bikes were stolen tomorrow, I would buy a disc-brake bike to replace them, because the industry is eliminating all sources of parts to keep rim-brake bikes on the road. It is a poor strategic decision to buy a rim-brake bike at this point in time. I do prefer the look, simplicity, and lower cost of rim, but I'm really only sticking with it because I have two very nice bikes that are 100% paid-for. And unfortunately a lot of people in my position are going to be punished for making smart financial choices by ending up with a paperweight they can't get parts for.

If the industry came out and said it would continue to support, in some reduced but adequate fashion, the umpteen millions of rim bikes, you'd see most of these internet arguments go away. Most of the anger is directed at the reality they may not be able to keep using what they bought.
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Old 09-21-21, 02:02 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Dreww10 View Post
Actually they are. If my bikes were stolen tomorrow, I would buy a disc-brake bike to replace them, because the industry is eliminating all sources of parts to keep rim-brake bikes on the road. It is a poor strategic decision to buy a rim-brake bike at this point in time. I do prefer the look, simplicity, and lower cost of rim, but I'm really only sticking with it because I have two very nice bikes that are 100% paid-for. And unfortunately a lot of people in my position are going to be punished for making smart financial choices by ending up with a paperweight they can't get parts for.

If the industry came out and said it would continue to support, in some reduced but adequate fashion, the umpteen millions of rim bikes, you'd see most of these internet arguments go away. Most of the anger is directed at the reality they may not be able to keep using what they bought.
Epic levels of fear-mongering with this one. Shimano has announced their latest Ultegra and Dura-Ace will have rim brakes available, same for SRAM as well as Campagnolo. Numerous aftermarket manufactures also make rim brakes currently and for the foreseeable future not to mention NOS supplies which will be available for as long as you will live. As an example, Tubulars are as outdated niche product as any in this sport and are still available as are the rims.
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Old 09-21-21, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
Epic levels of fear-mongering with this one. Shimano has announced their latest Ultegra and Dura-Ace will have rim brakes available, same for SRAM as well as Campagnolo. Numerous aftermarket manufactures also make rim brakes currently and for the foreseeable future not to mention NOS supplies which will be available for as long as you will live. As an example, Tubulars are as outdated niche product as any in this sport and are still available as are the rims.
Yes but the semi-wireless (no wires between shifters and derailleurs version) will NOT support rim brakes. I believe you have to bodge previous generation shifters and run fully wired to use rim brakes. And the latest SRAM ETap groupset (Rival) will also only support disc. So the tide is clearly turning.

Sad.
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Old 09-21-21, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Dreww10 View Post
The industry saw dollar signs at the idea of forcing every road cyclist on the planet to buy a new bike (and, at the same time, lowering its production costs by making road, gravel and CX parts all standardized), and it aggressively went after that initiative by either making its entire lineup disc, or its most desirable bikes disc-only, and then marketing the daylights out of it so people had no other choice but buy disc.

I'm not saying disc brakes aren't better, or that they aren't advantageous for some riders' environments, but this shift was engineered by a financially sagging cycling industry that needed to boost sales and lower costs, not by public demand.
Conspiracy theorist hey!
So "The industry" with all its rival manufacturers and suppliers all sat down together and came up with this marketing idea did they?

Or alternatively Shimano and Sram realised about a decade ago that the future of road bike brakes was inevitably destined to be with discs, following on from success in mtb and Cyclocross. It was always just a matter of time.
Her's a quote from an article written in Jan 2013 speculating on the introduction of disc brakes on road bikes:-

[Dom Mason, Kinesis Bikes designer]

“Yes. I think that we will look back with disbelief at the days when we used to squash rubber against alloy/carbon in an attempt to scrub off speed...sometimes our rims even had grit and grime smeared over them to add into the *********** mix!

“Discs make total sense for road bikes and as soon as they get light enough and all the mechanisms are housed in the hoods, then I'm sure we will see them being accepted. Rims can lose some weight because they won't need to be squeezed and have material built in for wear, so the overall weight of the system can be reduced.

“Braking in the wet with carbon rims is a little hit and miss, disc brakes solve this and of course there are the issues of rim wear, melting sidewalls, and brake rub with untrue wheels that discs negate. Disc brakes for 'winter' bikes also make huge sense.

“I realise there are issues surrounding heat build up in small/lightweight rotors and that the force induced on a small diameter road disc with a high friction coefficient riding surface is huge, but these problems will be dealt with and then, we will see disc brakes in the Pro-Tour.”

Well he was dead right and it all came to pass. As soon as Shimano et al. released viable road disc brake solutions, frame manufacturers jumped straight in. For sure it was a gift for sales and marketing, but it was always the tech leading the way. It's not a conspiracy, it's just an inevitable technical development like brifters etc.
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Old 09-21-21, 03:12 PM
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I wouldn't worry about not being able to run rim brake bikes. Even if the big manufacturers discontinue rim brake parts from their top offerings, which they probably will in the next generation, the cheap stuff will be available in rim brake, and various smaller manufacturers will happily produce parts to keep old bikes running.

Hell, you can right now buy brand new downtube shifters and quill stems if you like, of course you will be able to keep rim brakes going for many years to come. People keep 50 year old bikes on the road.
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Old 09-21-21, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by datlas View Post
Yes but the semi-wireless (no wires between shifters and derailleurs version) will NOT support rim brakes. I believe you have to bodge previous generation shifters and run fully wired to use rim brakes. And the latest SRAM ETap groupset (Rival) will also only support disc. So the tide is clearly turning.

Sad.
You were mentioning access to parts etc. not future availability of new rim-brake groups. I have never had a set of rim brakes fail and require parts other than brake pads however should you wish for a new set of rim brakes they are currently available and will be that way for a long, long time into the future. As for the pads, heck I can still get brake pads for a Model T!
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Old 09-21-21, 03:29 PM
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To me the biggest disappointment is that people in the entry-to-mid-level-range will end up with mechanical disks which even most road disk lovers will admit are terrible.
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Old 09-21-21, 03:39 PM
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Once the market for disk braked bikes is satisfied some other new tech thang will come along for nerds to argue about.
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Old 09-21-21, 05:24 PM
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Old 09-21-21, 05:58 PM
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Mountain bikes when they first appeared had rim brakes or even V brakes. Any mid-level MTB now comes exclusively with discs. It’s what the consumer wanted, especially when fording creeks and going through wet where stopping power is important. Sure there are still some low-end cheapos out there with rim brakes but you won’t find them on a bike of any dedicated bloke.

I believe that the same evolution will take place with road bikes. If you ask a pro which bike would they prefer to descend a long winding rain soaked pass, I would venture to guess that a high percentage would go with discs for their mere stopping power - and teams might prefer them to keep their riders a bit safer, but that’s just conjecture. Someone else posted that it would be cheaper for mfgs to just create one style frame - and economics being what they are, that may end up being the overriding reason. That’s just my opinion, I could be wrong.
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Old 09-21-21, 07:00 PM
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Of course the pros didn't want discs. Chris Froome is one of the few riders with enough recognition and money in the bank to be able to state the obvious.


As other posters have indicated, it is not just the insurmountable disadvantage of couple of extra pounds of ballast (at the worst place on the bike: the wheels), but it is the glacial race-ending wheel changes, and the constant rub-rub-rub and squeal. What I don't think has been mentioned is the extra bulking up of the frame and fork required by discs, leading to more weight and a less compliant, less comfortable fork. With rim brakes, much of the braking forces gets transferred through the rim into the fork crown, which is already very strong. With discs, all of the braking forces end at the hub, and then through the fork, which has to be reinforced.


Another consideration is the peloton pile-up potential with discs. I'm sure every rider individually wants the most powerful brakes possible (up to the adhesion limit between the tires and the road), but do you really want the guys you'll be drafting for 3,000 miles to have instantaneous skid-inducing braking? And pros weigh 140 pounds and know how to descend and to corner. Does a pro need the hardware of weekend warrior who is carrying 100 pounds extra?


The pros are paid to use what the sponsors drop on them, and praise it no matter what. Even if it is a blatant equipment deficiency, it always becomes rider failure. Pros are essentially paid to sell stuff, which is banks, lotteries, etc, and bike stuff. The target audience of the bike biz is a dentist with a gold card, who grew up mountain biking. Hence road bikes have sloping top tubes, thru-axles and discs. Give the consumer what he wants.


I will admit that road discs have been a boon to the industry. It renders 'obsolete' everything on a bike including all legacy frames and wheels. Complete reset. Further, it sends your average dentist with a gold card to their shop at least couple times per year. Whereas replacing worn rim brake pads is trivial for even someone with limited mechanical skills, disc brake setup, particularly hydraulics is a bridge too far for most home mechanics.
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Old 09-21-21, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
To me the biggest disappointment is that people in the entry-to-mid-level-range will end up with mechanical disks which even most road disk lovers will admit are terrible.
the Tektro mechanical disc brakes on my Yuba Mundo are fantastic. That thing weighs a half a ton and stops so hard my kids get thrown forward into my back.
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Old 09-21-21, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
To me the biggest disappointment is that people in the entry-to-mid-level-range will end up with mechanical disks which even most road disk lovers will admit are terrible.
I have mechanical disc brakes on some of my bikes and they work perfectly well.
I would say they are comparable to a good rim brake set up.
Except they are better than a carbon/rim brake combo in the rain and I do not have to worry about putting heat into the tyre on our tandem.
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Old 09-21-21, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Leinster View Post
the Tektro mechanical disc brakes on my Yuba Mundo are fantastic. That thing weighs a half a ton and stops so hard my kids get thrown forward into my back.
Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
I have mechanical disc brakes on some of my bikes and they work perfectly well.
I would say they are comparable to a good rim brake set up.
Except they are better than a carbon/rim brake combo in the rain and I do not have to worry about putting heat into the tyre on our tandem.
You guys are making my point for me. Sure there are outlier cases where mechanical disks work better than rim brakes. I'm talking about normal aluminum rim entry level road bikes, not half-ton vehicles or carbon wheel tandems.
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Old 09-21-21, 08:14 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Calsun View Post
Pro racers often exceed 50 mph on downhill runs and do worry about heating the rim with standard brakes which have been little changed over the past 100 years. With disc rotors that is no longer a concern. With a good rear disc brake there is also less need for a front brake and these may disappear on bike built for time trials.

Pro racers need to win and if that means Shimano disc brakes instead of Shimano V-brakes that is what they will insist on using. It does not matter so much about the sponsor and often racers have used different bits of gear carefully disguised so as not to show up in the photos. Even the frames may have a given brand name but are hand built to the rider's specifications and this has been going on for as long as there has been professional bike racing.
That was fine and dandy when all they had to do was appease the sponsors. AFAIK UCI rules require the all equipment used has to be available to the public - not sure on the general availability of, for example, a Litespeed painted up like a Trek.
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Old 09-21-21, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
You guys are making my point for me. Sure there are outlier cases where mechanical disks work better than rim brakes. I'm talking about normal aluminum rim entry level road bikes, not half-ton vehicles or carbon wheel tandems.
You said mechanical disc brakes were terrible. I said they aren’t. My point about the half-ton was just to illustrate the stopping power, but I’d happily put the same brakes on a road bike, commuter bike, whatever. As it happens, all my other bikes are older, so are all rim brake, but if my next bike is mech disc, so be it, and if my kids only ever ride mech disc once they outgrow their current 16” wheel bikes, then that’s just fine too.
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Old 09-21-21, 10:43 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
To me the biggest disappointment is that people in the entry-to-mid-level-range will end up with mechanical disks which even most road disk lovers will admit are terrible.
Personal experience with Avid BB7 and TRP Spyre says otherwise. Their big downside is that you have to adjust pad spacing as they wear while it happens automatically on hydraulics. They feel more mechanical, how to put it, than hydraulic disc brakes, but there's nothing wrong with them.
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Old 09-22-21, 02:47 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
Of course the pros didn't want discs. Chris Froome is one of the few riders with enough recognition and money in the bank to be able to state the obvious.


As other posters have indicated, it is not just the insurmountable disadvantage of couple of extra pounds of ballast (at the worst place on the bike: the wheels), but it is the glacial race-ending wheel changes, and the constant rub-rub-rub and squeal. What I don't think has been mentioned is the extra bulking up of the frame and fork required by discs, leading to more weight and a less compliant, less comfortable fork. With rim brakes, much of the braking forces gets transferred through the rim into the fork crown, which is already very strong. With discs, all of the braking forces end at the hub, and then through the fork, which has to be reinforced.
"I've been using them for the last couple of months and, performance-wise, they're great. You always stop when you need to stop. In the dry, in the wet, they do the job. They do what they're meant to do.

"The downside to disc brakes: the constant rubbing, the potential for mechanicals, the overheating, the discs becoming a bit warped when on descents longer than five or 10 minutes of constant braking.

"Personally, I don't think the technology is quite where it needs to be yet for road cycling," Froome continued, before adding to his list of shortcomings.

"The distance between the disc and the rotors is still too narrow, so you're going to get that rubbing, you're going to get one piston that fires more than another, you're going to get these little issues. I don’t think the pistons quite retract the way they're meant to all the time. Quite often it’ll work on the stand and when the mechanic sorts it out, but once you get onto the road, it’s a different story."

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chr...n-disc-brakes/
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Old 09-22-21, 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ussprinceton View Post
Did anyone else notice that Froomey isn't using Shimano disc rotors on this setup and all his issues appear to revolve around the discs rubbing, squealing and warping? Now it could be simply because he is working these brakes to the absolute limit for extended periods of time, way beyond the average user. Or it could be because these after-market discs don't play nicely with the Shimano calipers. But these are not issues I have with my Shimano 105 disc brakes. Maybe he should try stock 105s? LOL.
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