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the same ride, 30 times.

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the same ride, 30 times.

Old 11-10-21, 08:19 PM
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mschwett 
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the same ride, 30 times.

i fully admit to being a bit obsessed with data; i find it keeps one connected to a hobby in between the times you can actually do it.

i log all my rides, distance, time, power, calories, elevation, etc. the usual. my go-to ride is a 21 mile double loop through the presidio, golden gate bridge, and the marin headlands. it's a beautiful ride with one medium sized climb of around 600 feet which is very popular locally. the descent is amazing, steep, into the wind with an infinite view out over the pacific.

i have a heart condition which requires that i keep my effort fairly modest, but am otherwise in decent shape. when i started riding a road e-bike (specialized turbo creo) i used the motor extensively on this ride. over time i've weaned myself from it, both from training (within my limits) and a few changes to the bike. lost about 10-15 lbs along the way, along with lighter gear, some lighter parts for the bike, tires, wheels, gearing, bars/cockpit, saddle, the usual modest upgrades to the bike.

what the data shows is interesting to me. the total effort of the ride has gone down from around 350 watt hours (average of the first four tries) to around 290 watt hours (average of the last four), while speed has gone up by around a half a mile per hour. seven rides ago i stopped using the motor at all: the combination of a little bit more strength, 10% shorter gearing, and 7% less total weight means i don't need it any more. obviously any aero or rolling resistance gains make no difference on the ascent, which i do at 6-7mph. most of the overall reduction in work is probably from aero gains (both me and the bike) on the faster parts of the ride, since a 15-20lb reduction doesn't translate to anywhere near a 17% reduction in total work.

next step... a non-electric road bike of half the weight. i'm also kind of curious how fast the ride would be if i just turned the motor all the way up, more than doubling my power my guess is the difference would be 10 or 15 minutes.



here's the route. on a good day i do this without stopping - there are a total of seven traffic lights - but occasionally there can be 3 or 4 short stops, which are excluded from the rolling time but the acceleration and deceleration obviously affects things a teensy bit.

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Old 11-10-21, 10:34 PM
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I've done that loop in Marin quite a few times. It's a healthy climb and yeah, great scenery. Every time I'm there I wish I had that kind of terrain to ride regularly at home.

If you can do it on an ebike without using the motor, you'll enjoy it on a regular bike, which should be much lighter.
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Old 11-10-21, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
I've done that loop in Marin quite a few times. It's a healthy climb and yeah, great scenery. Every time I'm there I wish I had that kind of terrain to ride regularly at home.

If you can do it on an ebike without using the motor, you'll enjoy it on a regular bike, which should be much lighter.
yeah, really looking forward to riding it on a just-a-bike. Based on my experience so far i think another 13lb lighter will be really noticeable.
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Old 11-11-21, 10:27 AM
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btw, it's nice that you are losing weight, but those 30 rides alone, averaging about 1/week, are not nearly sufficient to account for 10-15 lbs. Either you've been doing a lot of other riding apart from these statutory rides, or something else has also changed
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Old 11-11-21, 10:55 AM
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Excellent progress. Well done sir!
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Old 11-11-21, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
btw, it's nice that you are losing weight, but those 30 rides alone, averaging about 1/week, are not nearly sufficient to account for 10-15 lbs. Either you've been doing a lot of other riding apart from these statutory rides, or something else has also changed
oh for sure. those are just the 30 instances of the same ride. iíve been doing around 500-600 miles a month.
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Old 11-11-21, 11:30 AM
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Nice. Are you planning on keeping the e-bike for other rides, or going exclusively to the non-ebike.
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Old 11-11-21, 11:30 AM
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mschwett - do you repeat the same ride every time because this is your best option in your area (based on geography) or do you like the consistency for some motivation type reason?

I have a "standard" solo training ride that is ~42 miles that I enjoy doing by myself that is a go-to type of ride if time management or motivation are lacking. I know that if I embark away from my house, then I can motivate next to get to the turnaround point (which is more than half the ride distance). Once at this pre-established turnaround point, I allow my self to return home along the "shortest distance between point A and point B". This part of the ride is quite satisfying and lately my energy on this return trip is still quite good.

As for your total watts going down as you have done this ride so many times, some of this energy savings is from your increased fitness I would think but some of it is from shear repetition of knowing the road surfaces so well that you are an expert now on where to save energy and where to maximize speed.

Also - the curious would like to know: do you bike across the Golden Gate Bridge?
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Old 11-11-21, 11:48 AM
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I lived in SF for a while, used to ride a variation of that route. Fantastic scenery! 🙂
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Old 11-11-21, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
Nice. Are you planning on keeping the e-bike for other rides, or going exclusively to the non-ebike.
definitely keeping the e-bike! it's a great bike, only 27lb, and on a 50+ mile ride with 5000' of climbing i definitely need the assist; also still need it for steep gravel climbs around here which are often 12% +

Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I lived in SF for a while, used to ride a variation of that route. Fantastic scenery! 🙂
i think it's a very popular route!

Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
mschwett - do you repeat the same ride every time because this is your best option in your area (based on geography) or do you like the consistency for some motivation type reason?

I have a "standard" solo training ride that is ~42 miles that I enjoy doing by myself that is a go-to type of ride if time management or motivation are lacking. I know that if I embark away from my house, then I can motivate next to get to the turnaround point (which is more than half the ride distance). Once at this pre-established turnaround point, I allow my self to return home along the "shortest distance between point A and point B". This part of the ride is quite satisfying and lately my energy on this return trip is still quite good.

As for your total watts going down as you have done this ride so many times, some of this energy savings is from your increased fitness I would think but some of it is from shear repetition of knowing the road surfaces so well that you are an expert now on where to save energy and where to maximize speed.

Also - the curious would like to know: do you bike across the Golden Gate Bridge?
i'd say i do this ride once in every 4 or 5 rides. strava shows 136 activities since i started road cycling at the end of march. kind of like you said, if i can't decide what sounds good and have relatively little time, i just do this. it's also a nice mix of flats and climbing and downhill, and is car free or nearly car free for big chunks. it's definitely motivating to have known times at various segments, try and shave a little time off here and there. i'm sure you're right about knowing the road. some of the rollers around corners especially, i know where to expect a little gravel on the road, where some extra speed will translate into a quicker climb, etc.

i ride across the bridge for about half of my rides. that's the first decision, go north, south, or east! i really enjoy it - the bike lanes are narrow but fully separated from the roadway and depending on the time of day, there's one side for bikes and one for pedestrians.

the view on the descent at dusk. it's supposedly 18% down right there, i don't think it's actually quite that much but i always check my brakes prior


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Old 11-11-21, 02:28 PM
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mschwett - wow! I've lived in Ohio my whole life and the farthest west I ever traveled is Denver Colorado (I rode my bike there - 1250 miles in 17 days).
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Old 11-11-21, 02:55 PM
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I have a close figure 8 loop I ride in the winter to stay out of the wind. It is in a subdivision that is around a golf course. The loop is 4.75 miles continuous with notstops and prefect pavement. One side goes up 1.5 miles and down so a very small gradual climb. I found this route to avoid problems in the winter as the houses block the wind and never in any one direction more than 1/2 a mile. I do rides of 30 to even 60 miles on this closed circuit and really have found it a bit fun. In some ways it is a break from going out into the middle of the corn pastures of Illinois. Also as the weather is bad no worry about a flat tire and trying to change it if real cold as I live really close.

The thing I discovered is now I do the loop even in the summer and a comparison so I have done the ride over 25 times at 50 miles and many days I ride 20 miles then head out in the country. It does provide some good feedback on progress and how your body is reacting. Since all the parameters are the same as far as the ride is concerned it really is the best way to see data. One interesting piece of data that is never told is no matter what my PR is on the loops, when I have done my best I always feel like I could do better. Just like running a marathon. My best marathon times came when I finished feeling the best and could have wiggled more seconds off the time. In contrast when pushing hard as you can an feeling like it is hard and difficult things usually get worse.
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Old 11-11-21, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by deacon mark View Post
I have a close figure 8 loop I ride in the winter to stay out of the wind. It is in a subdivision that is around a golf course. The loop is 4.75 miles continuous with notstops and prefect pavement. One side goes up 1.5 miles and down so a very small gradual climb. I found this route to avoid problems in the winter as the houses block the wind and never in any one direction more than 1/2 a mile. I do rides of 30 to even 60 miles on this closed circuit and really have found it a bit fun. In some ways it is a break from going out into the middle of the corn pastures of Illinois. Also as the weather is bad no worry about a flat tire and trying to change it if real cold as I live really close.

The thing I discovered is now I do the loop even in the summer and a comparison so I have done the ride over 25 times at 50 miles and many days I ride 20 miles then head out in the country. It does provide some good feedback on progress and how your body is reacting. Since all the parameters are the same as far as the ride is concerned it really is the best way to see data. One interesting piece of data that is never told is no matter what my PR is on the loops, when I have done my best I always feel like I could do better. Just like running a marathon. My best marathon times came when I finished feeling the best and could have wiggled more seconds off the time. In contrast when pushing hard as you can an feeling like it is hard and difficult things usually get worse.
absolutely. some days it's just not happening, and it feels like a huge effort and then you're still slow. sometimes the biological stars align and you just feel like you're flying, all systems go. no way to predict for me, unfortunately!
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Old 11-12-21, 12:16 PM
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On the chart you posted, the power curves look very similar. Until the far right it's the same basic overall shape, sometimes it's a mirror image. I'm assuming one is how much power the motor is contributing and the other is you?
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Old 11-12-21, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by deacon mark View Post
I have a close figure 8 loop I ride in the winter to stay out of the wind. It is in a subdivision that is around a golf course. The loop is 4.75 miles continuous with notstops and prefect pavement. One side goes up 1.5 miles and down so a very small gradual climb. I found this route to avoid problems in the winter as the houses block the wind and never in any one direction more than 1/2 a mile. I do rides of 30 to even 60 miles on this closed circuit and really have found it a bit fun. In some ways it is a break from going out into the middle of the corn pastures of Illinois. Also as the weather is bad no worry about a flat tire and trying to change it if real cold as I live really close.

The thing I discovered is now I do the loop even in the summer and a comparison so I have done the ride over 25 times at 50 miles and many days I ride 20 miles then head out in the country. It does provide some good feedback on progress and how your body is reacting. Since all the parameters are the same as far as the ride is concerned it really is the best way to see data. One interesting piece of data that is never told is no matter what my PR is on the loops, when I have done my best I always feel like I could do better. Just like running a marathon. My best marathon times came when I finished feeling the best and could have wiggled more seconds off the time. In contrast when pushing hard as you can an feeling like it is hard and difficult things usually get worse.
My 63 mile ride earlier this week with 8mph+ winds. Tonight's range is 0mph to 4mph from now to 6am. Just woke from a little nap and thinking about getting out to see if I can add to the total. p.s.- there are 4 golf courses in the circle



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Old 11-12-21, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by OldTryGuy View Post
My 63 mile ride earlier this week with 8mph+ winds. Tonight's range is 0mph to 4mph from now to 6am. Just woke from a little nap and thinking about getting out to see if I can add to the total. p.s.- there are 4 golf courses in the circle


thats one of the most interesting strava traces iíve seen! but why didnít you ride around the circle a few times ?!?
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Old 11-12-21, 09:19 PM
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Here's the headlands portion of the route with elevations:

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/38001885
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Old 11-13-21, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by mschwett View Post
thats one of the most interesting strava traces iíve seen! but why didnít you ride around the circle a few times ?!?
I've done "The Circle" and all roads add up to 97 miles!!! Too much for me right now 'cause I'm still trying to get back from a July 4th crash, rotator cuff tear.
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Old 11-20-21, 11:09 AM
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I am fortunate to have multiple options for loops of 15 to 50 miles from my house depending the mix of pavement and gravel I want to do on any given day. I don't think I've done any of the exact same ones for 30 times though. I much prefer to do some exploring on new routes even if it's just adding a loop through a subdivision adjacent to the main route. .
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Old 11-22-21, 06:04 AM
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This is really nice stats
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Old 11-22-21, 07:38 AM
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Hey mschwett, if you ever get a gopro type camera, could you film that ride some time? Love to see it.
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Old 11-22-21, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by OldTryGuy View Post
I've done "The Circle" and all roads add up to 97 miles!!! Too much for me right now 'cause I'm still trying to get back from a July 4th crash, rotator cuff tear.
I think he meant the perimeter (looks like "Boundary Boulevard"? Doesn't look like that's 97 miles.
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Old 11-23-21, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
I think he meant the perimeter (looks like "Boundary Boulevard"? Doesn't look like that's 97 miles.
My improper reply to the question, sorry.

The Boundary Blvd. and Rotonda Circle roads being ridden would not have presented an asterisk like image >> ( * ) on STRAVA.
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Old 11-26-21, 08:59 PM
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Nothing wrong with having your daily "commute" in the covid times. I missed about seven months of rides going through cancer treatment. I realized the faster riding times during covid were likely because of more green lights and less traffic.
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Old 11-26-21, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Inusuit View Post
I am fortunate to have multiple options for loops of 15 to 50 miles from my house depending the mix of pavement and gravel I want to do on any given day. I don't think I've done any of the exact same ones for 30 times though. I much prefer to do some exploring on new routes even if it's just adding a loop through a subdivision adjacent to the main route. .
I have a ton of route options. Some days I want to explore, see where the spirit takes me each time I get to an intersection. Other days I want to hammer. Or enjoy climbing and descending. Over time, a handful of loops emerged out of all the riding I do. Each of them offers something different, and has lots of opportunity for side trips or shortcuts.

The ride we're talking about out of SF is really nice. Lots of climbing, great scenery.
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