Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

When new SRAM Force/Red groupsets are expected?

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

When new SRAM Force/Red groupsets are expected?

Old 01-18-22, 01:22 PM
  #26  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 7,227

Bikes: Cinelli superstar disc, two Yoeleo R12

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1097 Post(s)
Liked 559 Times in 446 Posts
If sram were to offer 1X 13 speed for the road, it would most likely start with a 10T, so a 48 chainring wold would provide a top gear that matches a 53/11. Campy already has 13 speed cassettes, with 9-36, 9-42 and 10-46 options. With a 46T chain ring the top gear is a bit taller than a 50/11. A 9-42 or 9-36 with a 42T chainring might be tolerable for road use, but I'd rather stick with my 48/31 or 46/30 cranks, since I ride in the mountains. FWIW, the Ekar chain is even narrower than an axs chain. I bought one just to measure it. It won't fit on a grx crank, like any axs chain will.

https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Com...peed_sprockets

Last edited by DaveSSS; 01-18-22 at 06:59 PM.
DaveSSS is offline  
Old 01-18-22, 01:52 PM
  #27  
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,873
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1455 Post(s)
Liked 1,477 Times in 867 Posts
The problem with 1x for road is those huge cassettes get heavy. It ends up weighing more than a 2x setup with a smaller cassette, and solves nothing. Chain retention isn't an issue on road bikes. FD's aren't limiting tire clearance or clogging with mud, etc. I don't think SRAM will push 1x for road, but we will probably see 2x13 setups, which would give a massive range of gearing, and if paired with a 9t or 10t low cog could work well with much smaller front rings.
msu2001la is offline  
Old 01-18-22, 01:56 PM
  #28  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,389
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4389 Post(s)
Liked 4,829 Times in 2,985 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveSSS
If sram were to offer 1X for the road, it would most likely start with a 10T, so a 48 chainring wold would provide a top gear that matches a 53/11. Campy already has 13 speed cassettes, with 9-36, 9-42 and 10-46 options. With a 46T chain ring the top gear is a bit taller than a 50/11. A 9-42 or 9-36 with a 42T chainring might be tolerable for road use, but I'd rather stick with my 48/31 or 46/30 cranks, since I ride in the mountains. FWIW, the Ekar chain is even narrower than an axs chain. I bought one just to measure it. It won't fit on a grx crank, like any axs chain will.

https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Com...peed_sprockets
SRAM already offer 1x road starting with 10T. In future, if (sorry when) they go to 1x13 they will surely start at 9T like Ekar. It's the obvious way of getting a wide enough 1x range for fast road. I'm pretty sure I could live with Ekar for endurance road riding on mixed terrain. I was looking at the 9-42 with a 42T or even 40T chainring to replace a Shimano compact double 50/34 & 11-34T cassette.
PeteHski is online now  
Old 01-18-22, 02:07 PM
  #29  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,389
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4389 Post(s)
Liked 4,829 Times in 2,985 Posts
Originally Posted by msu2001la
The problem with 1x for road is those huge cassettes get heavy. It ends up weighing more than a 2x setup with a smaller cassette, and solves nothing. Chain retention isn't an issue on road bikes. FD's aren't limiting tire clearance or clogging with mud, etc. I don't think SRAM will push 1x for road, but we will probably see 2x13 setups, which would give a massive range of gearing, and if paired with a 9t or 10t low cog could work well with much smaller front rings.
Like for like, I'm pretty sure 1x is slightly lighter overall but I agree there is not much in it. Although FDs are far more tolerable on road than they are off-road, they are still nasty crude devices that we have just learned to live with. Every now and again they do throw the chain off if you are not paying attention. It happened to me only twice last season and as usual just at the wrong moment. I think SRAM will push both 2x and 1x on a menu pretty much like they already do. Mix and match across their various road/gravel/mtb components. 2x13 doesn't sound very interesting to me. 2x11, 2x12, 2x13 are all much of a muchness to me, but I'm not super fussy about precise cadence. 1x13 on the other hand is genuinely interesting for me and the first serious contender for 1x road gearing.
PeteHski is online now  
Old 01-18-22, 05:38 PM
  #30  
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times in 560 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveSSS
I would expect the pandemic situation to set back any new product introduction back by at least a year, maybe two.
Shimano didn't take into account your expectations. Much to my chagrin.

Originally Posted by DaveSSS
If sram were to offer 1X for the road,
They went 1x on the road long ago. 1st gen eTap timeframe IIRC. Guys here have been racing is for quite a few seasons. I'm personally not a fan.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 01-18-22, 05:41 PM
  #31  
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times in 560 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
<snip>FDs are far more tolerable on road than they are off-road, they are still nasty crude devices that we have just learned to live with. <snip>
This is much less true with electronic FD's. Especially with Shimano, who knows how to do front shifting. While SRAM has never been considered a system that shifts well on the front I do have to say eTap has at least smothered some of that lack of refinement through a bit of increased control.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Likes For Psimet2001:
Old 01-18-22, 06:06 PM
  #32  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,389
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4389 Post(s)
Liked 4,829 Times in 2,985 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001
This is much less true with electronic FD's. Especially with Shimano, who knows how to do front shifting. While SRAM has never been considered a system that shifts well on the front I do have to say eTap has at least smothered some of that lack of refinement through a bit of increased control.
It's still just turd polishing though.

Better if you can do without the big front step change altogether, which I think 1x13 might just achieve for a lot of people. We accept 2x on a bicycle because it's been around for so long, but I doubt you would be very happy if your car or motorbike had 2x gearing. It's the sort of thing you find in farm vehicles.
PeteHski is online now  
Old 01-18-22, 06:53 PM
  #33  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 7,227

Bikes: Cinelli superstar disc, two Yoeleo R12

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1097 Post(s)
Liked 559 Times in 446 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001
Shimano didn't take into account your expectations. Much to my chagrin.


They went 1x on the road long ago. 1st gen eTap timeframe IIRC. Guys here have been racing is for quite a few seasons. I'm personally not a fan.
Shimano is way behind sram when it comes to wireless 12 speed. They also failed to support wireless rim brake or mechanically operated disc brakes. I run force mechanical brake, wireless shifting levers with Juin-Tech GT hydraulic calipers. They work great and there's no bleeding. Sram and Campy are likely to have new offerings of some sort long before shimano.

With regard to front shifting, my two force axs bikes have been flawless, with 16 and 17 tooth gaps from shimano grx cranks. Sram chainrings may be to blame, but a lot of the problem is inept owners and mechanics who don't realize how common it is for a FD to rotate a bit when the clamp bolt is fully tightened. If that's not corrected, poor shifting results.

I thought we were talking about potential 13 speed 1x, like Campy already has. The comment was if sram offered 13 speed 1x, what it should look like. If shimano does it, it might be 4-5 years out.

Last edited by DaveSSS; 01-18-22 at 07:19 PM.
DaveSSS is offline  
Old 01-18-22, 07:24 PM
  #34  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 7,227

Bikes: Cinelli superstar disc, two Yoeleo R12

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1097 Post(s)
Liked 559 Times in 446 Posts
My current 12 speed 2x setups have at least 15 distinctly different gear ratios and I use every one. 13 speed 1x will work for a lot of riders, but not those who ride a lot of steep hills and/or mountains. My 48/31 crank and 10-36 or 10-33 cassettes cover a lot of range. The most is 557%.
DaveSSS is offline  
Old 01-18-22, 08:09 PM
  #35  
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,429

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3131 Post(s)
Liked 1,698 Times in 1,026 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveSSS
My current 12 speed 2x setups have at least 15 distinctly different gear ratios and I use every one. 13 speed 1x will work for a lot of riders, but not those who ride a lot of steep hills and/or mountains.
Not only that, for those who are fine tuning their effort for maximum output to the wheels, 1x doesn’t work then either. The dream, of course, is continuously variable gearing, with seamless transitions throughout the gear range.
chaadster is offline  
Old 01-18-22, 08:56 PM
  #36  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,941

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3944 Post(s)
Liked 7,289 Times in 2,944 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveSSS
My current 12 speed 2x setups have at least 15 distinctly different gear ratios and I use every one. 13 speed 1x will work for a lot of riders, but not those who ride a lot of steep hills and/or mountains. My 48/31 crank and 10-36 or 10-33 cassettes cover a lot of range. The most is 557%.
That's pure nonsense. Campy's 1x13 offers the same gear range as their 2x12, and more gear range than their 2x11. Many, many cyclists have been riding the steepest mountains on Campy 2x11 for more than a decade, so 1x13 is not going to hold them back.
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 01-18-22, 09:06 PM
  #37  
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,429

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3131 Post(s)
Liked 1,698 Times in 1,026 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
That's pure nonsense. Campy's 1x13 offers the same gear range as their 2x12, and more gear range than their 2x11. Many, many cyclists have been riding the steepest mountains on Campy 2x11 for more than a decade, so 1x13 is not going to hold them back.
One wants the right range from lowest to highest to meet their needs, but it’s the distribution of gears within that range that’s most important. I mean, you can have a huge range but it’s only defined by two gears, but who wants to ride with two gears?
chaadster is offline  
Old 01-18-22, 09:59 PM
  #38  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,941

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3944 Post(s)
Liked 7,289 Times in 2,944 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster
One wants the right range from lowest to highest to meet their needs, but it’s the distribution of gears within that range that’s most important. I mean, you can have a huge range but it’s only defined by two gears, but who wants to ride with two gears?
Yes, but we're not talking about two gears, we're talking about 13 gears compared to 15 or 16 gears. As a concrete example, a 2x12 setup with 11-34 and 50/34 has an average gear spacing of about 11%, whereas a 1x13 setup with 9-42 has an average gear spacing of 13.7%. (Gear ranges are 455% and 467%, respectively.) It's pretty silly to say you can't ride steep mountain roads with a 1x13 setup when the gear range is the same and the gear spacing is only about 25% greater than 2x12, and cyclists have ridden the same steep roads for many years with worse gearing.
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 01-18-22, 10:12 PM
  #39  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: South Shore of Long Island
Posts: 2,790

Bikes: 2010 Carrera Volans, 2015 C-Dale Trail 2sl, 2017 Raleigh Rush Hour, 2017 Blue Proseccio, 1992 Giant Perigee, 80s Gitane Rallye Tandem

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1081 Post(s)
Liked 1,019 Times in 719 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
That's pure nonsense. Campy's 1x13 offers the same gear range as their 2x12, and more gear range than their 2x11. Many, many cyclists have been riding the steepest mountains on Campy 2x11 for more than a decade, so 1x13 is not going to hold them back.
Its still not the same thing, when you're riding a lot in the mountains and spending a long time climbing, having a tighter cassette means less jumps. If you're going to spend the next ten miles climbing I'd much rather drop to a small ring and have a closer spaced rear cluster that has a better chance of giving me a more optimal gear, even better is knowing the jumps to know what the next gear can be. I can remember one 8 mile climb that was fairly steady and just the right incline to suffer on, seemed like every mile and a half I went one gear easier as fatigue was setting in, but the jumps weren't bad so while I had to keep shifting it was never one that was too easy requiring more spinning since I have never been a spinner. Having 4 tooth jumps would have sucked.
Russ Roth is offline  
Old 01-18-22, 10:30 PM
  #40  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,941

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3944 Post(s)
Liked 7,289 Times in 2,944 Posts
Originally Posted by Russ Roth
Its still not the same thing, when you're riding a lot in the mountains and spending a long time climbing, having a tighter cassette means less jumps. If you're going to spend the next ten miles climbing I'd much rather drop to a small ring and have a closer spaced rear cluster that has a better chance of giving me a more optimal gear, even better is knowing the jumps to know what the next gear can be. I can remember one 8 mile climb that was fairly steady and just the right incline to suffer on, seemed like every mile and a half I went one gear easier as fatigue was setting in, but the jumps weren't bad so while I had to keep shifting it was never one that was too easy requiring more spinning since I have never been a spinner. Having 4 tooth jumps would have sucked.
I understand, you like closer gear spacing. A lot of cyclists feel the same way. But, that doesn't mean 1x13 isn't suitable for riding in the mountains -- it works fine for lots of people.
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 01-19-22, 05:25 AM
  #41  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,389
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4389 Post(s)
Liked 4,829 Times in 2,985 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
I understand, you like closer gear spacing. A lot of cyclists feel the same way. But, that doesn't mean 1x13 isn't suitable for riding in the mountains -- it works fine for lots of people.
I'm with you on this. I have a Kickr Bike that can accurately simulate any gear combination you can dream up and I've experimented riding compact 2x vs 1x setups on big mountain climbs. Difference is meh. But I do train at a wide range of cadence so I'm not overly fussy as long as I have a low enough gear for 20%+ gradients i.e. 1:1 ratio for me.

I would have no issues riding 1x13 Campy in the mountains. Would probably go for 42 front with 9-42 rear.
PeteHski is online now  
Old 01-19-22, 05:48 AM
  #42  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2333 Post(s)
Liked 2,097 Times in 1,314 Posts
In the hills, a 20% jump in gear inches or ratio is not a problem, but current 1X puts too big of a jump in the cruising gears (11T-15T). Hills linear, wind = cubic. On a Mtb or gravel bike, who cares. The speeds are low. But on a road bike, the simplistic "range" argument appeals to whom? Certainly not those who race on the road. And, I have 17 useable gears on my 2 x 12 AXS setup.
GhostRider62 is offline  
Old 01-19-22, 06:31 AM
  #43  
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,429

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3131 Post(s)
Liked 1,698 Times in 1,026 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Yes, but we're not talking about two gears, we're talking about 13 gears compared to 15 or 16 gears.
No, we’re talking about 13 gears compared to 26 gears, and having more gears makes it more likely and easier to select the gear which best maximizes the rider’s output. Whether that rider wants to maintain a cadence, power, or torque level, having more gears to choose from will make it more likely they have that gear, can get to it more quickly, and be pedaling at peak efficiency sooner.

And that’s true regardless of which ring the rider is using, despite the fact of each range (i.e. is big chainring range and small chainring range) having some duplicate gear-inch combos, which is what you are talking about.

For the highly variable terrain of trail riding which is usually done solo, that’s less important than on the road where the predictability of the terrain and dynamics of group riding make gearing nuance critical to performance.
chaadster is offline  
Old 01-19-22, 09:32 AM
  #44  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 7,227

Bikes: Cinelli superstar disc, two Yoeleo R12

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1097 Post(s)
Liked 559 Times in 446 Posts
Rather than speak in generalities, I made a side by side gear ratio comparison of an Ekar 1x13 with my sramano 2x12. A 42T chainring with a 9-42 cassette compares most closely. You'll find that with a 2x12, there will be two lower gear ratios available, below the 42/42 that Ekar offers. That shouldn't be surprising, since the Ekar 9-42 range is only 467%, compared with the 557% or 506% with a 10-36 or 10-33 cassettes and 48/31 crank. If you don't need that much range, then 1x13 might be great. 1x12 not so great - less range and/or larger jumps.
DaveSSS is offline  
Old 01-19-22, 12:12 PM
  #45  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,941

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3944 Post(s)
Liked 7,289 Times in 2,944 Posts
Originally Posted by GhostRider62
In the hills, a 20% jump in gear inches or ratio is not a problem, but current 1X puts too big of a jump in the cruising gears (11T-15T). Hills linear, wind = cubic. On a Mtb or gravel bike, who cares. The speeds are low. But on a road bike, the simplistic "range" argument appeals to whom? Certainly not those who race on the road. And, I have 17 useable gears on my 2 x 12 AXS setup.
Agreed, 1x13 doesn't have a lot of appeal in road racing, and it may not ever catch on with road racing. But the "simplistic range" argument was only meant to refute the ridiculous statement that "13 speed 1x will work for a lot of riders, but not those who ride a lot of steep hills and/or mountains." Many people find 1x13 very useable in the mountains.

Originally Posted by chaadster
No, we’re talking about 13 gears compared to 26 gears ...
You have a 2x setup with 26 useable, distinct gear ratios? Awesome, I want it!!!!

Originally Posted by DaveSSS
Rather than speak in generalities, I made a side by side gear ratio comparison of an Ekar 1x13 with my sramano 2x12. A 42T chainring with a 9-42 cassette compares most closely. You'll find that with a 2x12, there will be two lower gear ratios available, below the 42/42 that Ekar offers. That shouldn't be surprising, since the Ekar 9-42 range is only 467%, compared with the 557% or 506% with a 10-36 or 10-33 cassettes and 48/31 crank. If you don't need that much range, then 1x13 might be great. 1x12 not so great - less range and/or larger jumps.
You need to look outside your own little bubble.You may need a 557% gear range in the mountains, but many cyclists do not. Most cyclists have been riding for decades with 2x setups that have 350-400% ranges, and 450% ranges have only recently become common on road bikes.
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 01-19-22, 04:56 PM
  #46  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 7,227

Bikes: Cinelli superstar disc, two Yoeleo R12

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1097 Post(s)
Liked 559 Times in 446 Posts
It's hard to post anything here without being nitpicked and misinterpreted. Cut me some slack. I know full that the young and powerful can get by without the lowest of gears, but 2x offers far more options. I never said that nobody can use 1x in the mountains. I ride to Estes Park 3 times a week in the summer with 3000 feet of climbing in the first 22 miles. I can do the whole thing in my 48 and a 10-28 sprocket range, even at age 68. That's only a 280% range. The key is that none of the slopes exceed 6% and I can ride that standing in my 48/28. If I go up through Glen Haven, there's one steep section where I can stand in my 31/24 or 32/28 or choose to sit and spin in my 31/33. It's nice to have options. The narrow minded can't imagine needing low gears, but they don't know what lies ahead as they age.

After 2-1/2 years back on the bike I got my cycling legs back and ditched the 10-36 for a 10-33. If I had a limited range sram 48/35, I'd still need the the 10-36. Give me a wide range crank.
DaveSSS is offline  
Likes For DaveSSS:
Old 01-19-22, 05:07 PM
  #47  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,941

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3944 Post(s)
Liked 7,289 Times in 2,944 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveSSS
It's hard to post anything here without being nitpicked and misinterpreted. Cut me some slack. I know full that the young and powerful can get by without the lowest of gears, but 2x offers far more options. I never said that nobody can use 1x in the mountains. I ride to Estes Park 3 times a week ...
Ummmm ... you sure did:
Originally Posted by DaveSSS
13 speed 1x will work for a lot of riders, but not those who ride a lot of steep hills and/or mountains.


Tell me how that sentence has been
misinterpreted.
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 01-19-22, 05:33 PM
  #48  
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times in 560 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveSSS
Shimano is way behind sram when it comes to wireless 12 speed..
This... almost has no response...but it wouldn't be the internet if I didn't try:
1. Who cares. I do not want wireless nor 12 speed.
2. uh - they have a wireless front end with a wired rear on the latest groups - which is a marked improvement over a wireless system. The battery running their system is way beyond what SRAM has been doing and delivers amazing performance at both derailleurs.
3. This is like saying, "Oh yeah? They don't have the bad features that you hate so they aren't as good."

Originally Posted by DaveSSS
They also failed to support wireless rim brake or mechanically operated disc brakes..
This is incorrect. They specifically are keeping the R9000 levers on hand and making them compatible with the new generation wires so that those who want mechanical brakes/rim brakes still have an option. Again though, like above, this is a door that should have been shut though. I love rim brakes as much as the next guy but somewhere there's a car enthusiast who still loves mechanical drum brakes I'm sure.

Originally Posted by DaveSSS
With regard to front shifting, my two force axs bikes have been flawless, with 16 and 17 tooth gaps from shimano grx cranks. Sram chainrings may be to blame, but a lot of the problem is inept owners and mechanics who don't realize how common it is for a FD to rotate a bit when the clamp bolt is fully tightened. If that's not corrected, poor shifting results..
As a professional mechanic I can assure you that SRAM is much worse than Shimano at front shifting. They have greatly improved their front shifting over the years. eTap has taken it even much further in performance. It has brought them to "almost" as good as Shimano front shifting is at it's worst. Agreed that most people are clueless when it comes to setting up a front derailleur properly. Eliminating that as a variable SRAM is worse.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 01-19-22, 05:37 PM
  #49  
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times in 560 Posts
...and I'll toss this one in. 1x is great for mtb and cross. On the road it's a step backwards IMHO. Electronic front shifting has returned so much elegance and control to front shifting that it combined with synchro shifting will most likely cause one of these companies to bring back out triples. I am not joking. The reasons we eliminated triples are actually being addressed and the possible marketing memos for why now is the new era of triples practically write themselves.

SRAM will not be the ones offering triples though. They need to optimize 2x shifting and existence first.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 01-19-22, 08:00 PM
  #50  
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,429

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3131 Post(s)
Liked 1,698 Times in 1,026 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
You have a 2x setup with 26 useable, distinct gear ratios? Awesome, I want it!!!!
Well yeah, I’ve got a SRAM Force AXS drivetrain with a 48/35 crankset and 10-33 cassette, and I roll either 35c or 42c rubber, so none of the gear combos actually move the bike the same distance per revolution (i.e. in terms of inches of development) they are all distinct, and that’s what’s important.

Sure, a couple of the gears are very close— in terms of gear inches, only 2 ratios are “the same” w/ 35c (or 25c, for that matter) and none are the same w/ 42c— but that’s entirely the point of having many gears, the ability to fine tune gear selection to maximize the rider’s effort.
chaadster is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.