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When new SRAM Force/Red groupsets are expected?

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When new SRAM Force/Red groupsets are expected?

Old 03-02-24, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Was that on the same bike? Asking because I don’t have any front shift issues with the first gen chainset. Been faultless for 2 years now. Not saying that the new one isn’t an improvement, but mine shifts as well or better than any of my previous setups (mainly Shimano Ultegra or 105). But I only ever shift the front rings off load at a reasonable cadence. So that might mask any potential weakness.
I‘ve been using force chainrings without issue as well.
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Old 03-02-24, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS
I have used Specialties TA rings that behaved like the reports on SRAM rings. I tried at great length to get them to shift well, but the shift to the big ring was slow and noisy and would always toss the chain off the big ring, if shifted from the smaller half of the cassette. I tried them with rival and force FDs with the same result. Switched back to GRX rings and perfect shifting was restored. I just switched 3 bikes to the new 12 speed cranks. They work great, too.
Despite the reports of front derailleur issues, the vast majority of SRAM users have no shifting problems. Your lack of shifting problems means you are most likely simply a member of the majority. It does not lead to the conclusion that SRAM cranks or chain rings are the source of shifting problems, especially since you have never actually experienced any problems using SRAM cranks or chain rings. Your claim has no more merit than if someone claimed the reported shifting problems are due to SRAM batteries, because they always used 3rd party batteries and never had any problems.
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Old 03-02-24, 11:48 AM
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So the many people who spent hours trying to get decent shifting with Force rings are just poor mechanics and so are the shop mechanics who failed. That works for me. I can set one up in 10 minutes or less, unless I'm using crappy TA rings.

Last edited by DaveSSS; 03-02-24 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 03-02-24, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS
So the many people who spent hours trying to get decent shifting with Force rungd are just poor mechanics and so are the shop mechanics who failed.
You've pitched that theory several times as well. But, the most likely scenario is that you are just one of many people that have not experienced shifting problems with SRAM. Any conclusions beyond that are unsupported.
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Old 03-02-24, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
You've pitched that theory several times as well. But, the most likely scenario is that you are just one of many people that have not experienced shifting problems with SRAM. Any conclusions beyond that are unsupported.
That's possible too. I've suggested buying a new FD to see if it works differently, but I've never had anyone try it and report back. All three of my early model Force and Rival models work great.
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Old 03-04-24, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Was that on the same bike? Asking because I don’t have any front shift issues with the first gen chainset. Been faultless for 2 years now. Not saying that the new one isn’t an improvement, but mine shifts as well or better than any of my previous setups (mainly Shimano Ultegra or 105). But I only ever shift the front rings off load at a reasonable cadence. So that might mask any potential weakness.
Yeah, same exact bike. The D1 Force front derailleur would drop the chain once in a while. D2 does not. Not sure if it was an isolated issue with mine, improper setup, or something else. All I know is that the new crankset/chainset has been superb. I was about to give up on SRAM until I made this change. The front shifting is still a tiny bit slower than my new Ultegra di2 12-speed, but I prefer SRAM's shifting setup (ie, pressing the buttons on each shifter simultaneously to front shift). Plus, the D2 Force crankset just looks better to me....
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Old 03-12-24, 11:09 AM
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Yes a new Red is on the way. I am not privy to the embargo this time so I am free to talk out my butt as I have not seen anything internal nor signed anything but its been leaked in shots online many times before now. I think I know of at least one OEM that mentioned an embargo they were waiting on before they could talk about a new bike...it wasn't a gravel bike so that rules out the new GRX Di2 12.

Yes front shifting on SRAM really, really sucked but I have to say with the latest generation of flat top chain and rings (AXS 12) they really seemed to have finally figured out how to keep the chain from dropping so damn much. Now if they finally do the Mineral Oil swap in the brake system that they seem to be leaning towards I could actually get behind them.
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Old 05-02-24, 05:39 PM
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My LBS said they have now received the new groupset but can' t open the box. May 15 is apparently the SRAM Red reveal date...
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Old 05-03-24, 01:55 PM
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I truly think it's any second. Specialized has their SWORKS Aethos Red AXS from $12,500 to $8500 which is a cool $4K so I think every company is preparing for the new Red. My quick take is that Red AXS D2 will look better and probably take the cake for the lightest electronic 12 speed groupset period, I think the change to mineral oil will not happen because Rival AXS D1 and especially Force AXS D2 that was just refreshed in March 2023 didn't go to mineral oil, so having one groupset use mineral oil while the rest use DOT makes zero sense. As per the front derailleur performance in terms of drops, my opinion nothing changes from Force AXS D2. You got to remember Force D2 FD has the latest design to reduce chain rub and produce quieter shift. The stiffer cage for D2 was supposed to equal less drops, but I have a Force D2 FD and I have had 2 drops already. Luckily these came at low speeds and I have a chain catcher on my bike. Point being I don't think the Red D2 FD will be any different from the Force D2 FD besides build materials for weight and design
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Old 05-04-24, 06:37 AM
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Chain drops shouldn't all be blamed on the FD. I've used Force D1 and Rival FDs on six bikes and never had a chain drop. I don't use a wedge or chain checker either. I've used Campy and Shimano GRX cranks with 48/32,48/31and 46/30 chain rings to get more range. Both shift great. I have 3 bikes with 46/30 GRX 12 speed cranks and 10-44 cassettes with 675% range.

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Old 05-06-24, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Jrasero
I truly think it's any second. Specialized has their SWORKS Aethos Red AXS from $12,500 to $8500 which is a cool $4K so I think every company is preparing for the new Red. My quick take is that Red AXS D2 will look better and probably take the cake for the lightest electronic 12 speed groupset period, I think the change to mineral oil will not happen because Rival AXS D1 and especially Force AXS D2 that was just refreshed in March 2023 didn't go to mineral oil, so having one groupset use mineral oil while the rest use DOT makes zero sense. As per the front derailleur performance in terms of drops, my opinion nothing changes from Force AXS D2. You got to remember Force D2 FD has the latest design to reduce chain rub and produce quieter shift. The stiffer cage for D2 was supposed to equal less drops, but I have a Force D2 FD and I have had 2 drops already. Luckily these came at low speeds and I have a chain catcher on my bike. Point being I don't think the Red D2 FD will be any different from the Force D2 FD besides build materials for weight and design
I think you're right... which makes me wonder if the new groupset will be worth it versus getting the last version at a substantial discount.
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Old 05-07-24, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS
Chain drops shouldn't all be blamed on the FD. I've used Force D1 and Rival FDs on six bikes and never had a chain drop. I don't use a wedge or chain checker either. I've used Campy and Shimano GRX cranks with 48/32,48/31and 46/30 chain rings to get more range. Both shift great. I have 3 bikes with 46/30 GRX 12 speed cranks and 10-44 cassettes with 675% range.

​​​​
Half of the SRAM owner with FDs I know have chain drop issues, including the new Force groupset which was supposedly revamped and improved.

People put their head in the sand, but there is a real engineering issue at SRAM and they're not doing f*ckall about it. That's the brutal truth.

I've never had a single chain drop on any of my Shimano equipped bike (Tiagra, 105 and Ultegra). Coincidence?
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Old 05-07-24, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by eduskator
Half of the SRAM owner with FDs I know have chain drop issues, including the new Force groupset which was supposedly revamped and improved.
Luckily I am in the right half of the draw then! Honestly, based on internet reputation, I expected to have issues and they never happened. I’m running stock Force AXS on a 2022 Canyon. I find the front shift actually more reliable than Shimano R7000 mechanical (which has occasionally dropped chains for me), but that is not really a fair comparison.

I believe there are people out there with SRAM FD issues, but I have no idea what causes them.
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Old 05-07-24, 06:50 AM
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It seems like it's a hit or miss kind of thing, and I am not sure why. Consider yourself lucky if you've been spared of this nightmare! I lived it last summer and it upset me to a point where I sold the bike.
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Old 05-07-24, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by eduskator
Half of the SRAM owner with FDs I know have chain drop issues, including the new Force groupset which was supposedly revamped and improved.

People put their head in the sand, but there is a real engineering issue at SRAM and they're not doing f*ckall about it. That's the brutal truth.

I've never had a single chain drop on any of my Shimano equipped bike (Tiagra, 105 and Ultegra). Coincidence?
I think the drops are overrated but not uncommon. I have used Rival AXS D1, Force AXS D1, and Force AXS D2 and even on the D2 FD I have had drops and this is with all my FD being setup with a block at a LBS. Luckily I run a chain catcher and even have mastic tape around the BB and chain stay areas and my drops I think are pretty isolated and maybe due to me shifting while putting down power. I will say I have dropped plenty of chains on Shimano mechanical 11 speed and I have heard of people dropping chains on 12 speed Di2. This is all to say I think SRAM AXS FDs are inferior to Shimano Di2 but not by much, like it hasn't stopped me from using SRAM AXS on my past four bikes now and if I were to build a new bike today I'd still go SRAM AXS. The only reason I'd go Di2 is if I was buying a complete bike
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Old 05-07-24, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by eduskator
It seems like it's a hit or miss kind of thing, and I am not sure why. Consider yourself lucky if you've been spared of this nightmare! I lived it last summer and it upset me to a point where I sold the bike.
I would do the same if I suffered repeated chain drops. I wonder if the pro teams using SRAM have these FD issues.
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Old 05-07-24, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Jrasero
I think the drops are overrated but not uncommon. I have used Rival AXS D1, Force AXS D1, and Force AXS D2 and even on the D2 FD I have had drops and this is with all my FD being setup with a block at a LBS. Luckily I run a chain catcher and even have mastic tape around the BB and chain stay areas and my drops I think are pretty isolated and maybe due to me shifting while putting down power. I will say I have dropped plenty of chains on Shimano mechanical 11 speed and I have heard of people dropping chains on 12 speed Di2. This is all to say I think SRAM AXS FDs are inferior to Shimano Di2 but not by much, like it hasn't stopped me from using SRAM AXS on my past four bikes now and if I were to build a new bike today I'd still go SRAM AXS. The only reason I'd go Di2 is if I was buying a complete bike
A lot of people want to blame the FD for chain drops, when the real culprit may be chain rings with poor shifting ramps. I've been using D1 Force AXS for 4 years and had no chain drop issues, but I started with Campy Chorus 48/32 12 speed cranks and later switch to Shimano GRX cranks, with spacing washers on the chain ring bolts to correct the chain line to normal road rather than +2.5mm gravel. Poor installation of the AXS FD is also a cause. Some people just aren't able to adjust the alignment marks parallel to the chain rings, or don't notice that the FD rotated out of alignment when the clamp bolt was tightened.

Chain drops are sometimes due to rider error like shifting under a heavy torque and/or a too low cadence. You can't blame the FD for those chain drops.

The first Rival FDs have a redesigned cage that works better and was used on D2 Force. D2 Red will certainly have an improved cage too.

I've got 3 bikes with GRX 46/30 cranks, force RDs with with extended range cages and 10-44 cassettes. I can ride grades up to 10% in the big ring if I get out of the saddle. I like the 10-44 enough that I decided to try a 1x Cervelo Rouvida with 46 big ring and 10-44. I haven't had good enough weather to try it on steep grades yet. I'm working on programming to get the ideal power boost to get up a 15% grade with the 46/44 gear ratio instead of a 30/44 or 30/38. In theory, it's 200 watts from me and about 100 from the motor.

Last edited by DaveSSS; 05-07-24 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 05-07-24, 11:47 AM
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The cheapest groupset on the market should not have more chain drops than the most expensive one, IMO.

I have been shifting under the same amount of torque and at the same RPM in the last 10 years and the only chain drops I had were with SRAM. My friend switched to SRAM this year and he's experiencing chain drops too. He was previously using 105 with no issue. It's easy to blame the user, but in reality, it really looks like an engineering issue.

If you want my unprofessional opinion, the shifting speed of the FD is partly at cause. It's a lot slower than Shimano.
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Old 05-07-24, 12:28 PM
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Back to the subject of the thread...

https://www.globalcyclingnetwork.com...t-giro-ditalia
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Old 05-07-24, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by eduskator

If you want my unprofessional opinion, the shifting speed of the FD is partly at cause. It's a lot slower than Shimano.
It might well be slower than Di2, but I doubt it is slower than mechanical Shimano. I must say I’m always very cautious with front shifts on any bike, so I would be the least likely to provoke a chain drop. I used to get my fair share of drops on 3x mtb drivetrains on rough terrain, but very rarely on road bikes. SRAM AXS has been no exception for me.
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Old 05-10-24, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Caliwild
My LBS said they have now received the new groupset but can' t open the box. May 15 is apparently the SRAM Red reveal date...
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Old 05-10-24, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Caliwild
Back to the subject of the thread...

https://www.globalcyclingnetwork.com...t-giro-ditalia
Yep. Looks like this groupset went on a weight weenie diet. Should be interesting to learn some of the details.
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Old 05-15-24, 09:00 AM
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New SRAM Red = $4200 (with power meter)

It's cool and light and I'm sure amazing, and also pretty safe to assume I'd never spend that much on a groupset.
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Old 05-15-24, 11:52 AM
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Looks like the levers and brakes are the biggest upgrades. Would like to try the ergonomics on the new levers.

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Old 05-15-24, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by msu2001la
New SRAM Red = $4200 (with power meter)

It's cool and light and I'm sure amazing, and also pretty safe to assume I'd never spend that much on a groupset.
I mean I agree but Dura Ace is $4350 MSRP. Not that I think either one is worth $4K but Red AXS E1 is slightly cheaper and technically the lightest electronic groupset now. The only downsides still remain are DOT fluid, probably semi poor front shifting, and possibly marginally slower rear shifting. However if Shimano was a 9/10 shift speed wise SRAM was always a 8.8/10.

IMO if you are a SRAM AXS owner especially a SRAM Force D2 owner, IMO this is where mixing and matching is very beneficial. For me the shifters, chain, and maybe rear derailleur are the only things I would buy from Red E1 while the rest would be Force D2 or the old Red D1. The new rotors are only 8g lighter which puts them at 108g but frankly Galfer Wave CL Rotors 160mm are 98g and are cheaper at $70. I frankly think the new front derailleur will be exactly the same performance wise as the Force D2, so IMO why pay $450 when you can buy the Force for $243 or cheaper with sales? Unless you need the 10-36 in Red, just getting a Red D1 cassette on sale now is such a better deal. The crankset is only 29g lighter yet you can find Force D2 and even Red D1 cranks for under $400 now

Last edited by Jrasero; 05-15-24 at 02:09 PM.
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