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Cycling equivalents to running 10km, half, and full marathon.

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Cycling equivalents to running 10km, half, and full marathon.

Old 04-07-22, 06:14 PM
  #51  
asgelle
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
I would be willing to bet an Elite TdF rider could not do RAAM in under 7 days 15 hours, unless they took some years of training.
Jonathan Boyer (a TdF rider, but hardly elite) won RAAM without any specific training.
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Old 04-07-22, 06:25 PM
  #52  
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I think cycling is much easier on the body (if not pushing hard) than running, and the distances don’t translate well. I could do a 100 mile bike ride and not feel much different than if I did a 50 mile bike ride, but a 10k run would hurt much more than a 5k run
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Old 04-08-22, 12:13 AM
  #53  
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Never been able to compare cycling to actually running since my bowed legs wouldn't permit me to *RUN* any appreciable distance without knees giving way so instead I speed walked NOT TO BE LIKENED TO RACE WALKING Speed Walking a marathon in under 5 hours for me was way more physically demanding than my under 5 hours first 100 miles biking with 60% drafting in the my 1 day 170 mile Cross Florida Rides.
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Old 04-08-22, 05:20 AM
  #54  
ZHVelo
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
I got into a friendly argument with a guy on Slowtwitch who claimed duathlon 3:1 ratio had to do with equalizing the metabolic costs of run/bike. He claimed to have some kind of link to USAT. I disagreed with him because metabolic cost ignores physics of time gain running being largely linear, and time gain on the bike being very non-linear. You can measure "run power" these days. I found one of the super popular run scientist guy's pace/power calculator and then worked the math out on how long you would need in the bike leg to make time gain/loss on power differences in each pay out fairly. The 3:1 ratio wound up being pretty BS. It took even more than the triathlon 4.3:1 ratio to even out. Making the duathlon almost largely a runner's race with an annoying bike ride tossed in.

In other words, making 25w more in the run got you a LOT more time gain than 25w more in the bike.

As to the above, I don't train running "much" compared to bike and I have my run threshold set based on 10k distance at about 7:05/mi. My 40k TT time is a bit under 55min.

I do feel racing a 10k feels more similar to a 40k ride. You feel like you're easing into the pain a lot more than you do for a shorter 5k run or 10mi TT bike. I just detest those distances personally as it's just all teeth grit the whole time. A 40k TT sure does suck longer than a 10mi TT, but you ease into it a lot longer pain wise. Like the "boiling a frog slowly" phrase.
Because you are faster on the bike, marginal increases in power input result in lower speed gains.

Well done for getting the numbers, but I am surprised you even had to. This seems fairly obvious.
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Old 04-08-22, 05:30 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Many publications including VeloNews have ranked RAAM as harder.

TdF is only 2000 miles over 23 days and many days have hours in zone 1/2, just take some time to look at many years worth of power files. Compare the kilojoules per day of a RAAM rider vs a TdF rider. RAAM has 50% more climbing over 1/3rd the days. There is no contest in my mind.

I would be willing to bet an Elite TdF rider could not do RAAM in under 7 days 15 hours, unless they took some years of training. Or my more simple example, do 640 miles in 24 hours to see how easy it is for an elite tdf rider.

GL to your friend.
I just googled RAAM and it says it is ca. 3000 miles. 3000/7 = 428. Now it is approximately but I also didn't even count the 15 hours. So how can you talk about 640 miles when it just requires 428? Because you have to do it 7 days in a row? I think that is a different beast than doing 212 more miles within a single day.
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Old 04-08-22, 06:43 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
Because you are faster on the bike, marginal increases in power input result in lower speed gains.

Well done for getting the numbers, but I am surprised you even had to. This seems fairly obvious.
Yeah, I was surprised also.

My one main point about duathlon was why go with a 3:1 ratio where triathlon has a 4.3:1 ratio. Both contests have been around a lot longer than they ever interested me, so it's kind of the younger guy questioning the logic of "the old guard" to an extent. Usually the younger person asking those questions is given the side eye for doing so.

But I felt I had a legit question. If you want a multisport event that doesn't favor either sport, the ratio is totally totally wrong in duathlon. The triathlon ratio is better.
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Old 04-11-22, 04:25 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Jonathan Boyer (a TdF rider, but hardly elite) won RAAM without any specific training.
Indeed. We can also look at EF Pro Cycling's Lachlan Morton who took 2 days out of his normal racing schedule to do 1063km non-stop in 42 hours recently for Ukraine. No extra prep, just did it off the cuff for charity proving he can do endurance. He wasn't racing it, he wasn't going for a great time, he just did it.

The guy I know doing RAAM who has an ultra distance record - he had a feature on GCN earlier this year - only started his RAAM training in February really. Only in the past week or two has his weekly mileage matched the weekly base miles I was doing earlier this year. Year to date he is behind my mileage and he is 9 weeks out from RAAM. No need for years of special training.

My point is this: When comparing which event is tougher, we should focus upon those who compete who make it tough, rather than just the route itself. A lot of WT Pros could complete RAAM but I contend that if you took all of this year's RAAM competitors, put them in their own team, gave them every support TDF teams have and let them race, they would not last a single week. Why? They would get dropped and fail to meet the daily cut off times - possibly in day one.

Sure, all of the RAAM guys could complete the TDF as a RAAM-style event and do it in a lot fewer days overall to boot but put them in it as a race and they wouldn't hack it. None of them could keep up. the rigours of racing, the speed etc would exclude them. I say this looking at my friend who is aiming to do really well in RAAM and who has the pedigree to do so. I could drop him today in a one day race and I'm an old man who only races MTB and GranFondos! However, I reckon there are many WT Pro's who could do RAAM and win at first attempt. Therein lies the difference for me. While RAAM is ultra-endurance and requires a special type of mindset to do it, it is far from impossible for cyclists who could never make it in the Pro ranks. But there are many Pro's who can do ultra-endurance if they wanted to and be faster at it too. I believe. By this kinda logic, to me, the TDF is the tougher, more prestigious event.
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Old 04-13-22, 12:35 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
I'd say the first option is significantly more difficult than the second.
Agreed. I can and have done a sub 5-hour century solo before. It was pan flat Delaware. About the only slowdown was the very large number of intersections winding through rural Delaware. On the other hand, I don't think I could do a 40k TT in under an hour. Even if you gave me a TT bike I don't think I could do it. I could probably average 250W for an hour in an aero position. Maybe. Probably more like 240W. Not sure if that would be enough for 40kph.

Last edited by guachi; 04-13-22 at 12:58 PM.
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