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Your call for the best tyres re: RR and Puncture Resistance?

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Your call for the best tyres re: RR and Puncture Resistance?

Old 06-02-22, 08:25 PM
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tajimirich
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Your call for the best tyres re: RR and Puncture Resistance?

I've been on a tyre burn for a couple of days here.

I'm rolling with Gatorskins, but I want to consign them to the backup slot and get some faster tyres for regular use - I typically race cars as a matter of habit (not saying I beat them!) And I love the feeling of a 1-to-1 translation of power to tarmac without anything lost to hesitant tyres.

That said, I'm often in urban conditions on quite gnarly roads and I don't want to just get some race tyres that will die a quick death.

So at the moment I'm looking at a couple of tyres:

- Continental GP5000 (regular 2018 model I believe)
- Vittoria Corsa Graphene 2.0

Which would you suggest? Do you have a better option in mind?

Thanks for your suggestions!!!
​​

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Old 06-02-22, 09:02 PM
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Old 06-02-22, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
Are those continental popcorns?
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Old 06-02-22, 09:39 PM
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In what way are you concerned that race tires will die a quick death? Tread life? Cuts?

If regular, small punctures are the problem, tubeless could be an answer. I wouldn't go so far as to run TT tires for daily use but, short of those few options, there are several very fast tires that are robust enough to last ~5,000km. Paired with a good sealant, roadside flat repairs can be dramatically reduced, often years apart.

If you're talking about regularly taking bigger cuts, let's say 5mm and larger, then supple tubeless tires aren't what you're looking for. Others with experience, with tires that feature greater protection, can advise you on tires that roll and feel better than the Gatorskins without giving up much protection, if any.
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Old 06-02-22, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
In what way are you concerned that race tires will die a quick death? Tread life? Cuts?

If regular, small punctures are the problem, tubeless could be an answer. I wouldn't go so far as to run TT tires for daily use but, short of those few options, there are several very fast tires that are robust enough to last ~5,000km. Paired with a good sealant, roadside flat repairs can be dramatically reduced, often years apart.

If you're talking about regularly taking bigger cuts, let's say 5mm and larger, then supple tubeless tires aren't what you're looking for. Others with experience, with tires that feature greater protection, can advise you on tires that roll and feel better than the Gatorskins without giving up much protection, if any.
It's hard for me to say. I don't really add up my KMs ridden, certainly not per puncture, but I ride my bike up to 20km every day - often much more, but I use my bike for practical movement around the city more than hobby day rides - and I think I like tyres that only start puncturing when their tread is worn down? That might be about as technical as I get here. I want tyres that will roll free, no feeling of drag, pretty much ignore surface changes, and remain intact until they're visibly starting to wear out.

In two years I changed my tyres once, with regards to my latest tyres, I wouldn't mind that going up to once a year, I just want to get a good balance, the maximum speed mixed with elevated puncture protection, that's why I mentioned both in the title.

Of my two options in my ot, I imagine the continental gp5000s are the safe choice, the vittorias a faster choice.. is that right? It's there a better choice? These are my points of interest.
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Old 06-02-22, 09:57 PM
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Speed and puncture protection tend to exist at two ends of a spectrum. You can't have the maximum in both -- we all have to decide what our comfort level is. My heuristic is to use the thinnest tires that don't result in excessive punctures.
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Old 06-02-22, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Speed and puncture protection tend to exist at two ends of a spectrum. You can't have the maximum in both -- we all have to decide what our comfort level is. My heuristic is to use the thinnest tires that don't result in excessive punctures.
Yes, I am aware of the trade off

That's my heuristic too, my quest with this thread, what are your tyres?

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Old 06-02-22, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by tajimirich View Post
Yes, I am aware of the trade off

That's my heuristic too, my quest with this thread, what are your tyres?​​​​​
Panaracer Pari-Motos on the 650B bike, Rene Herse Naches Pass on the 26" bike. With the state of my roads, those bikes get the lion's share of my riding.

I can't help much on the 700C front. Those bikes are still wearing Panaracer Paselas from when I cared less about this stuff, the plan is to upgrade to thinner and lighter tires when those wear out. Perhaps Rene Herse Chinook Pass in Extralight casing?
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Old 06-02-22, 10:33 PM
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Tried the Conti GP5K - tried to like them, but any kind of hit to the sidewall (rock in the road, or riding on gravel) would destroy the tire. After having to discard two sets of these, I gave up on them.
I have since switched to the Conti GP 4-Season and have been very pleased with this all-rounder. Still a nimble tire with good grip, but much more versatile with respect to road condition and durability than the GP5K.
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Old 06-03-22, 06:22 AM
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I'd suggest the Corsa Controls instead of the regular Corsas if you're leaning that way. Basically the same tire except the center tread strip is wider and therefore adds a bit more protection from getting sidewall cuts. You give up little bit of RR and add a tiny bit of weight.

That said, your described usage is more for utility. The corsa Controls I suppose are considered an 'endurance' tire of sorts. But I would l look more at this type rather than race tires as you started with. Eg. also consider Conti GP 4 Seasons or Michelin Pro4 Endurance, etc. These would be a nice step faster than Gators yet still have more protection than race tires.
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Old 06-03-22, 06:34 AM
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GP5000 are far more puncture resistant than the Speeds but similar to the normal Corsa G+. Also, a little faster. I ride GP5000 25 mm with latex tubes or GP 5000 25mm tubeless (S version). IRRC, I have not had a flat since August 19, 2019 if that matters. I now expect two today.
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Old 06-03-22, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by tajimirich View Post
It's hard for me to say. I don't really add up my KMs ridden, certainly not per puncture, but I ride my bike up to 20km every day - often much more, but I use my bike for practical movement around the city more than hobby day rides - and I think I like tyres that only start puncturing when their tread is worn down? That might be about as technical as I get here. I want tyres that will roll free, no feeling of drag, pretty much ignore surface changes, and remain intact until they're visibly starting to wear out.

In two years I changed my tyres once, with regards to my latest tyres, I wouldn't mind that going up to once a year, I just want to get a good balance, the maximum speed mixed with elevated puncture protection, that's why I mentioned both in the title.

Of my two options in my ot, I imagine the continental gp5000s are the safe choice, the vittorias a faster choice.. is that right? It's there a better choice? These are my points of interest.
Okay. If you've got just the last couple years on Gatorskins as a benchmark, you probably don't have a great idea of what to expect with tires with lesser protection. Just try the GP5Ks, see how you get on with them, and let that experience shape future choices.
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Old 06-03-22, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Okay. If you've got just the last couple years on Gatorskins as a benchmark, you probably don't have a great idea of what to expect with tires with lesser protection. Just try the GP5Ks, see how you get on with them, and let that experience shape future choices.
Slight misunderstanding there, the Gatorskins are brand new, earlier tyres were continentals but for the life of me I forget the make.. they were wearing through and showing warning pits (is that a thing? Little, deliberate looking holes that kind of reveal as the tyres wear down) come the end.

But generally my inner tubes have failed more than the tyres - I like as firm a ride as possible so I generally put as much air as I can into the tubes and they eventually fail. The last three tubes I went through: Giant, gunshot like pop that ruptured my tyres (og GIANT tyres); huge swelling that mishaped the tyre (og GIANT tyres); big, if not quite giant, pop (well worn continental tyres).

This image shows the og tyres on my previous bike:



I had vittoria tyres in Melbourne a few years ago, around 2017, before the Graphene developments that have apparently made them more resilient, I think I rode them very hard and they lasted a long time, though I didn't have much luck keeping them clean.

FULL DISCLOSURE, though, I've ordered myself a pair of Grand Prix 5000s with the cream side walls. As I understand it they're probably the better tyres for my means, and having the vittoria cream sides is tasty gravy.
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Old 06-03-22, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
GP5000 are far more puncture resistant than the Speeds but similar to the normal Corsa G+. Also, a little faster. I ride GP5000 25 mm with latex tubes or GP 5000 25mm tubeless (S version). IRRC, I have not had a flat since August 19, 2019 if that matters. I now expect two today.
Thank you for your sacrifice hahaha, for what it's worth, as I mentioned above, I've gone with the 5000s. 700 25c.
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Old 06-03-22, 07:34 AM
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Michelin Power Protection+ has been my compromise between Gatorskins and full on race tire. I won't really train on anything else now-a-days, and I don't fret when I have to race on them.
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Old 06-03-22, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by tajimirich View Post
Slight misunderstanding there, the Gatorskins are brand new, earlier tyres were continentals but for the life of me I forget the make.. they were wearing through and showing warning pits (is that a thing? Little, deliberate looking holes that kind of reveal as the tyres wear down) come the end.
Okay, it'd be more helpful if you remembered what tires you've run, but maybe debris punctures aren't terribly problematic for you. Still, ride the GP5Ks when you get them and go from there.

Originally Posted by tajimirich View Post
But generally my inner tubes have failed more than the tyres - I like as firm a ride as possible so I generally put as much air as I can into the tubes and they eventually fail. The last three tubes I went through: Giant, gunshot like pop that ruptured my tyres (og GIANT tyres); huge swelling that mishaped the tyre (og GIANT tyres); big, if not quite giant, pop (well worn continental tyres).
This is doing it wrong. It may feel faster to over-inflate your tires, but it's not. Check with the SRAM or Silca tire pressure calculators to get an idea of what kind of pressure would be optimal. If you'd like to learn the "why?" behind it, take a listen to the Cycling Tips podcast on tire pressure; it's about an hour, but you'll get the gist without having to listen all of the way through - https://cyclingtips.com/2016/08/cycl...and-pressures/
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Old 06-03-22, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Okay, it'd be more helpful if you remembered what tires you've run, but maybe debris punctures aren't terribly problematic for you. Still, ride the GP5Ks when you get them and go from there.



This is doing it wrong. It may feel faster to over-inflate your tires, but it's not. Check with the SRAM or Silca tire pressure calculators to get an idea of what kind of pressure would be optimal. If you'd like to learn the "why?" behind it, take a listen to the Cycling Tips podcast on tire pressure; it's about an hour, but you'll get the gist without having to listen all of the way through - https://cyclingtips.com/2016/08/cycl...and-pressures/
Alright! I'll look into it. If there are ways to improve anything I'll take them on board.

I took on some advice to change front and back chain rings at the same time to reduce pressure, worked well going one way, popped my chain off the ring going the other way lol #learning
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Old 06-03-22, 08:18 AM
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Here is a different way to think of it.

Do you want speed? Buy the fastest tires you can.
The difference between the fastest tires and slowest tires is about 12W. This means for every 100km you’ll be about 7min faster compared to slow tires, or 35min every 500km. Even if you get a flat every 500km, a flat only take say 15min to fix (shorter if you use CO2), you’ll still be faster over time then the slowest tires even accounting for changing the tire.

But if you live in a place that cuts up tires, especially lots of sidewall cuts, stay with the most protection you can get.
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Old 06-03-22, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by billridesbikes View Post
Here is a different way to think of it.

Do you want speed? Buy the fastest tires you can.
The difference between the fastest tires and slowest tires is about 12W. This means for every 100km you’ll be about 7min faster compared to slow tires, or 35min every 500km. Even if you get a flat every 500km, a flat only take say 15min to fix (shorter if you use CO2), you’ll still be faster over time then the slowest tires even accounting for changing the tire.

But if you live in a place that cuts up tires, especially lots of sidewall cuts, stay with the most protection you can get.
I think, since my rides are short and sharp, my appreciation of speed pertains specifically to roll smoothness, rather than times.. I just want a wheel that runs free, more or less, regardless of surface.. picks up speed going down hill without hesitation, etc.
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Old 06-03-22, 09:08 AM
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They all have models of tires that are good to great. I've used Vittorias that were low RR and didn't puncture and I currently use Continental's that give me a couple years between flats, GP 5000's. The Vittoria Rubino Pro's only got me about a year between flats.

So your poll is more about brand preference than whether or not there is a good tire. Also, you don't define what puncture resistance is to you. Does that mean I have to intentionally go out and find something to see if it punctures my tire?
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Old 06-03-22, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by tajimirich View Post
I think, since my rides are short and sharp, my appreciation of speed pertains specifically to roll smoothness, rather than times.. I just want a wheel that runs free, more or less, regardless of surface.. picks up speed going down hill without hesitation, etc.
Ah, so you don’t want speed you want comfort? Do you already run the widest tires your bike can take at the minimum pressure you can get away without pinch flats? This will make you ‘roll smoother’ over all surfaces because they won’t ‘bounce around’ on irregular surfaces or sink as deeply into soft surfaces.
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Old 06-03-22, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by billridesbikes View Post
Ah, so you don’t want speed you want comfort? Do you already run the widest tires your bike can take at the minimum pressure you can get away without pinch flats? This will make you ‘roll smoother’ over all surfaces because they won’t ‘bounce around’ on irregular surfaces or sink as deeply into soft surfaces.
I've heard of this zaney new science lol, I like 25c tyres..

Hmm well, I dunno about wanting cruise'y comfort... I like the feeling of a well pumped tyre; feeling all the individual grains in the road, I put up with the harder bumps - I had an aluminium frame until I recently went to steel and I expect the new frame to sufficiently dampen bumps to make a difference for my tastes - I don't think I want smoothness no, just no resistance, just want gravity and power to decide the speed, not friction or a stodgy tread or compound
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Old 06-03-22, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by tajimirich View Post
Hmm well, I dunno about wanting cruise'y comfort... I like the feeling of a well pumped tyre; feeling all the individual grains in the road, I put up with the harder bumps - I had an aluminium frame until I recently went to steel and I expect the new frame to sufficiently dampen bumps to make a difference for my tastes - I don't think I want smoothness no, just no resistance, just want gravity and power to decide the speed, not friction or a stodgy tread or compound
*Definitely* listen to that podcast that I linked earlier - smooth is fast.
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Old 06-03-22, 09:34 AM
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I find Pirelli Cinturato Velos offer a very good overall compromise. Puncture resistance is excellent (far higher than any of the race tyres and even rated higher than Gatorskins). Grip is excellent in wet or dry. Rolling resistance is very respectable and hard to tell any real-world difference in speed from the race options, especially on rougher road surfaces. I run these tubeless, but they can be run tubed-too if you prefer.

I also have the latest and greatest Conti GP5000S TR on my other bike and while I really like them and objective tests suggest they should be faster, I don't really notice much of a difference out on the road. They do feel a little more supple, but that's about all. I haven't punctured on them either, but only covered just over 1000 km so far.

I think either of these tyres would feel like a big step up from Gatorskins.

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...rato-velo-2018
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Old 06-03-22, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by tajimirich View Post
I've heard of this zaney new science lol, I like 25c tyres..

Hmm well, I dunno about wanting cruise'y comfort... I like the feeling of a well pumped tyre; feeling all the individual grains in the road, I put up with the harder bumps - I had an aluminium frame until I recently went to steel and I expect the new frame to sufficiently dampen bumps to make a difference for my tastes - I don't think I want smoothness no, just no resistance, just want gravity and power to decide the speed, not friction or a stodgy tread or compound
Good god man! I want faster tires, no smoother tires, but wait, I want to feel all the bumps in the road, but not too much of the bumps! Are you a member of Parliament by any chance? Haha
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