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Taiwan to build high-end Colnagos?

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Taiwan to build high-end Colnagos?

Old 07-28-05, 03:51 PM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by simplyred
Funny how "not-so-poor" companies like AMD, Intel, Panasonic, Sony, Lockheed-Martin, GM, and GE all have HUGE production plants that build aerospace, turbine, electronic appliances in Taiwan.
Whats Lockheed make in Taiwan?
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Old 07-28-05, 03:54 PM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by bbp
Whats Lockheed make in Taiwan?
Link

If they don't make anything - then correct me. I just googled some big companies
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Old 07-28-05, 04:01 PM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by simplyred
Funny how "not-so-poor" companies like AMD, Intel, Panasonic, Sony, Lockheed-Martin, GM, and GE all have HUGE production plants that build aerospace, turbine, electronic appliances in Taiwan. These companies that I've listed probably account for like 5% of the worlds economy - and that's a modest guess.

If ANY of you hate Taiwanese manufacturing plants/processes - you might as well say it.
Then most people will then proceed to rail you - skinnyone's got it right. The specifications used in Asian plants are just as strict as one's in N.A. If you don't believe it, go buy a custom made by some "Specialist" in America versus a multimillion dollar machine built to weld, mould, and bond to the nearest millionth of a millimeter.
Why pay for the same product [from manufacturer's POV] so the company can slap a "MADE IN USA" sticker? - I'd fire your @ss if you wanted to keep my plants in North America.

Oh and some of you may forget - Basso & Ulrich rode Asian made frames.
Engine is what it's all about brothers & sisters. Arguments about frames & drivetrain are moot - and then arguing about where they are made is even more ridcols.

Not trying to offend anyone,
-Peter
peter.. u hit is right on the spot.. bottom line.. it's all about the engine baby~

for me.. i'd definitely need some twin turbos with my MADE IN TAIWAN stickers on there.. hehe
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Old 07-28-05, 04:02 PM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by bbp
Whats Lockheed make in Taiwan?
a company based in Taiwan called Topkey manufactuers aside from prob the largest % of composite tennis rackets (not easy at all), Scott CR1s, partnered with Merida the specialized work...

but also makes components for Blackhawk... particularly the tail surfaces out of composites, lightweight bathrooms for the C-17 Globemasters (funny eh?)...

Most people don't realize it - but because of Taiwan's political isolation because of the PRC's influence.... much of the military work, particularly in aviation, missile technology... have created a very lively local composite industry. The experience and transfer of technology from missile nose cones, etc... paired with OEM work from tennis rackets, golf clubs, bikes, etc... creates a very concentraited industry.
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Old 07-28-05, 04:06 PM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by simplyred
Link

If they don't make anything - then correct me. I just googled some big companies
I don't believe lockheed makes anything in Taiwan. Taiwan is probably a customer as well as a supplier.
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Old 07-28-05, 04:07 PM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by ShinyBaldy
but also makes components for Blackhawk... particularly the tail surfaces out of composites, lightweight bathrooms for the C-17 Globemasters (funny eh?)...
The Blackhawk is made by Sikorsky Aircraft.
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Old 07-28-05, 04:19 PM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by bbp
The Blackhawk is made by Sikorsky Aircraft.
Yes - it was just an example of components being produced in Taiwan. If Boeing can have components build in Taiwan, I don't see why a Lockheed wouldn't if they needed a component and a company in Taiwan happened to be able to produce it at the standard they wanted and price most favorable.
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Old 07-28-05, 04:21 PM
  #158  
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This will just cause a sorting of the herd, and a new class of uber dick will rise up. The guys who have the old Italian Colnagos. "Those new Colnagos ain's shet"

I'm sure that some guys will gladly pay more for used Italian Made ones, than the new Taiwanese ones.
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Old 07-28-05, 04:22 PM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by ShinyBaldy
Yes - it was just an example of components being produced in Taiwan. If Boeing can have components build in Taiwan, I don't see why a Lockheed wouldn't if they needed a component and a company in Taiwan happened to be able to produce it at the standard they wanted and price most favorable.
Main reason is security. Boeing does a lot of commercial business. Most of Lockheeds need for composites are in military aircraft.
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Old 07-28-05, 05:24 PM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by ckleps
what's funny is how people on the opposite ends of the political spectrum will unite. I'm pretty darn liberal, yeah I'll admit it, but I'm not a touchy-feely-PC-bleeding heart type, and its these bleeding hearts who are joining up with the "america rules everyone else sucks types" to try and convince us that we should buy things from over seas. And no I'm not talking about specific people in the forum, because I haven't read nor remember all the posts. I'm just commenting on the people I see around me.
But the bleeding-hearts crowd is also linked up with the "America sucks" crowd as well. Heres the way I look at things: I buy high end stuff that I use everyday to make a living. My hand tools (sockets, wrenches, etc) are made in the US because no other country, to date, can provide the same quality with a lifetime warranty. The stuff made in China is inferior because its cheap. If you dont use tools on an everyday basis, then these would be adequate. Some that are stamped "Made in the USA" arent actually made here but again lack the quality of tools such as Snap-On. My computers that I use everyday to make a living....well as to date I still use computers made in Asia (Japan, Taiwan, etc.)... again, quality and warranty. Some of the stuff I use, but not on a day to day basis, or rarely use, I buy the cheaper stuff because they dont really help me make a living.

As I do not, nor will ever, believe in affirmative action, I do strongly believe in supporting merit. I go (buy, support, whatever you want to call it) by merit. If you make a good product, no matter where you are located, certain middle eastern countries excluded, thats where I go. I wont buy inferior products that I need just because they are made in my own country. Thats not the way to run a smart business.
Same with people. I dont care if you are black, white, green...if you have what it takes and are personable, thats who I go with.
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Old 07-28-05, 05:49 PM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by TLN
But the bleeding-hearts crowd is also linked up with the "America sucks" crowd as well. Heres the way I look at things: I buy high end stuff that I use everyday to make a living. My hand tools (sockets, wrenches, etc) are made in the US because no other country, to date, can provide the same quality with a lifetime warranty. The stuff made in China is inferior because its cheap. If you dont use tools on an everyday basis, then these would be adequate. Some that are stamped "Made in the USA" arent actually made here but again lack the quality of tools such as Snap-On. My computers that I use everyday to make a living....well as to date I still use computers made in Asia (Japan, Taiwan, etc.)... again, quality and warranty. Some of the stuff I use, but not on a day to day basis, or rarely use, I buy the cheaper stuff because they dont really help me make a living.

As I do not, nor will ever, believe in affirmative action, I do strongly believe in supporting merit. I go (buy, support, whatever you want to call it) by merit. If you make a good product, no matter where you are located, certain middle eastern countries excluded, thats where I go. I wont buy inferior products that I need just because they are made in my own country. Thats not the way to run a smart business.
Same with people. I dont care if you are black, white, green...if you have what it takes and are personable, thats who I go with.
Well said.
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Old 07-28-05, 06:26 PM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by TLN
As I do not, nor will ever, believe in affirmative action, I do strongly believe in supporting merit. I go (buy, support, whatever you want to call it) by merit.
WTF does affirmative action have to do with this discussion?

As addressed earlier in this discussion, merit = quality = PERCEPTION. Perception is manufactured. Taiwan doesn't manufacture perception -- that's its shortcoming. If Taiwan went on some big freaking marketing campaign to present its glory, hired ****** models, inserted itself in American movies, etc...you'd see the unconscious masses line up for the goods and brag about it to their friends. "Taiwan Inside" and all that.

The general inability of Asian companies to successfully create Euro-American glamour lies at the heart of this discussion. In many venues (cycling is one) efficiency is a core determinant of success, but efficiency doesn't usually sell well if you're targeting consumers. Corporations understand that the masses want a story, a fable to romanticize their increasingly uninspired lives. So they use the efficiency of Taiwan and sell us a story. Some prefer Italian, some prefer American, German, etc...in the end it's still a filtered myth. The truth is you're not going to automatically get laid in Sweden, not all german engineers are good, and some Italians are actually rigid Type-A organization freaks.

So if you feel the Colnago mystique plays a role in your life, may all the blessings of Serotta and DeRosa be upon thee. But the bottom line is this: None of this has anything to do with affirmative action.
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Old 07-28-05, 06:43 PM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by 55/Rad
This whole thread reminds me of a conversation with a none-too-bright ex-girlfriend back in '86.

Me: Wow, I really like your new car. This Chevy Sprint is much nicer than I expected. I guess that's come to be expected from a Japanese car.

Her: A Japanese car? No no no, it's a Chevy.

Me: Yea, Chevy nameplate on a Suzuki car. It's common nowadays. ('86)

Her: THIS CAR IS NOT MADE IN JAPAN - IT IS MADE HERE IN THE U.S. BY CHEVY.

Me: Ummmmm okay, whatever you say. It's still nice for an Amerinese Econobox.

Her: WHERE DO YOU GET OFF THINKING THIS CAR IS MADE IN JAPAN - IT'S A FREAKIN' CHEVY!

Me: Relax sweetie - your right, it's a Chevy. So, what kind of deal did you get for the "protection package"?


55/Rad
I beg to differ. I've read some great stuff in this thread from people with good minds. Some of the stuff I disagreed with, but overall I am surprised at the intelligence brought to bear on the issues.
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Old 07-28-05, 07:34 PM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by MattWolf
WTF does affirmative action have to do with this discussion?

Sometimes affirmative action can make a company run rough or even close its doors depending on the situation, thats what it has to do with this discussion there Einstein. It has to do with merit. There are some people who dont care about merit, just about having a certain amount of a certain type of people regardless of their ability and this relates to this subject.
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Old 07-28-05, 07:36 PM
  #165  
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I stumbled on this old article from slowtwitch today. It touches on just about everything discussed in this thread (and more) and is very, very informative. BTW, the author cites a very different reason for why a colnago costs what it does - one no one has even mentioned yet.

https://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadin...s/bikebiz.html
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Old 07-28-05, 07:40 PM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by TLN
Sometimes affirmative action can make a company run rough or even close its doors depending on the situation, thats what it has to do with this discussion there Einstein. It has to do with merit. There are some people who dont care about merit, just about having a certain amount of a certain type of people regardless of their ability and this relates to this subject.
So Italy's affirmative action policy is bad for bicycle manufacturers. Taiwan is good because it's based on merit, and they'll let anybody work there. OK, I get it now.
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Old 07-28-05, 08:11 PM
  #167  
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How about those new CF Colnagos?
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Old 07-28-05, 09:04 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by invincibleone
But Ulrich seemed to do a bit better when he was on a(n Italian) Bianchi.
Don't buy outsourced products. It is our responsibility to future generations to ensure jobs remain in non third-world countries. If Colnago stops making frames in Italy I will stop liking Colnago, that simple. Spending four grand for a frame made with 23¢ an hour labor cannot be justified, end of argument.
<sarcasm>
Oh yeah, I've got your dirt poor 3rd world 23c/hour nation right here.
</sarcasm>
Top photo is Shanghai, bottom is Shenzhen
(special economic zone just across the "border" from Hong Kong).



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Old 07-28-05, 09:06 PM
  #169  
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Originally Posted by bbp
The Blackhawk is made by Sikorsky Aircraft.
Which was absorbed by Boeing many years ago, if I remember correctly.
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Old 07-28-05, 09:19 PM
  #170  
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Who started this thread again? Was it Veneer?

Well start another one titled:

American soup company Campbells to start mass producing Hi-End Egg Rolls for japanese company Chung King so we can see where that one goes.

HAHHAHAHA!
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Old 07-28-05, 09:21 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by shnapper
Who started this thread again? Was it Veneer?

Well start another one titled:

American soup company Campbells to start mass producing Hi-End Egg Rolls for japanese company Chung King so we can see where that one goes.

HAHHAHAHA!
There's a bakery somewhere in Canada that makes chinese restaurant fortune cookies - they were on the local television news a few months ago, with video of the factory... Of all the things you'd think would be imported
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Old 07-28-05, 09:24 PM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by thewalrus
There's a bakery somewhere in Canada that makes chinese restaurant fortune cookies - they were on the local television news a few months ago, with video of the factory... Of all the things you'd think would be imported

to the US of course right?
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Old 07-28-05, 09:34 PM
  #173  
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One story says the fortune cookie was invented in SF!!!

The fortune cookie folding machine was invented in SF, and they still produce a TON. It is a cool factory.
They actually are exported from here to China.

EDIT: Since several people have questioned my statements. Here is the website that I read. https://www.chcp.org/fortune.html

"..
Now mass produced and widely distributed, the fortune cookie is exported to China and Hong Kong with fortunes written in English. Most popular in the United States, the cookies continue to lift spirits with promises of great success, love and harmony, fame and good fortune."


I did not say that every Chinese person eats them..just mentioned that they are exported to China...

Last edited by ZappCatt; 07-28-05 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 07-28-05, 09:35 PM
  #174  
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Originally Posted by thewalrus
<sarcasm>
Oh yeah, I've got your dirt poor 3rd world 23c/hour nation right here.
</sarcasm>
Top photo is Shanghai, bottom is Shenzhen
(special economic zone just across the "border" from Hong Kong).
Check it out they got a super brand mall in the top pic!!!
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Old 07-28-05, 09:38 PM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by ZappCatt
They actually are exported from here to China.
uh... people in china don't eat fortune cookies. I never saw one in my life until I came to the US.
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