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Would one TT bike win a full pro team of road racers?

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Would one TT bike win a full pro team of road racers?

Old 06-14-22, 12:29 PM
  #26  
LarrySellerz
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Originally Posted by Broctoon View Post
I'm with tempocyclist. The lone TT rider will have a significant aero advantage over a lone rider on a road bike. But with eight pros who know how to rotate through a line and stay on each other's wheel, that advantage would be easily negated. The team would simply wear the lone wolf down in the first few miles, by letting one guy at a time push hard while the others recover and enjoy the aero advantage of drafting. TT guy is more aero than whoever is on the front of the line, but he's gotta be max effort all the time.
yeah assuming equal fitness and a smooth paceline it wouldn't even be close. heck, the racers could probably ride old steel bikes and beat the TT guy, drafting is too powerful
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Old 06-14-22, 12:32 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Honestly, nobody asked you. You've for years jumped into topics like this with the recumbent stuff with questionable data, claims, and "this would crush that" nonsense.

You even contradict yourself in your own post when you start backpedalling your claims from "destroy that record" to "there are not too many bent riders who can do that power for 44 minutes".

Right. Weak flex. Weak.

To the rest.........ya'll realize there's stage finish times for TTT's done on road bikes, right? And there's also stage finish times for plenty of pro ITT's. Sorry to say, the road bike TTT's are universally slower. I already posted the example from a real result.

Ganna did 33mph in Imola. Aeroweenie puts a roadie with a .300 CdA on a road bike at 630w for that speed. Which is a great CdA for a road bike setup. Most pros can probably do 630 for 90 seconds? Maybe 120 seconds? Ganna did Imola in about 35min. 35min divided by 2min worth of pulling?

Try again.
The thread is about a gcn video comparing bike speeds, throwing recumbents in the mix is not derailing or crazy. Also recumbents are banned for a reason, they are absolutely killer on flat ground. If any bike was going to beat a pack of riders on a long flatish course it would be a recumbent.
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Old 06-14-22, 08:07 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
GCN is rather absurd, they will put someone stronger on the TT bike and make a contrived video. They are just another arm of Big Gravel trying to n+1 you and the perverse thing is that they always have been.
So, Big Gravel has GCN doing videos about TT bikes vs. road bikes, to get viewers to go out and buy a gravel bike? Damn, those guys are devious!
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Old 06-14-22, 08:10 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
So, Big Gravel has GCN doing videos about TT bikes vs. road bikes, to get viewers to go out and buy a gravel bike? Damn, those guys are devious!
Yeah you haven't figured that out by now? In said video they will hint at things like wide tires at low pressures are just as fast!
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Old 06-14-22, 08:16 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
Yeah you haven't figured that out by now? In said video they will hint at things like wide tires at low pressures are just as fast!
I'm just not smart enough to decipher the clever and subtle manipulation by Big Gravel. I guess that's why I'm stuck at n.
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Old 06-14-22, 09:01 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
I'm just not smart enough to decipher the clever and subtle manipulation by Big Gravel. I guess that's why I'm stuck at n.
Apparently a comfy and demonstrably faster ride is just a gateway drug.
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Old 06-15-22, 07:15 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Honestly, nobody asked you. You've for years jumped into topics like this with the recumbent stuff with questionable data, claims, and "this would crush that" nonsense.

You even contradict yourself in your own post when you start backpedalling your claims from "destroy that record" to "there are not too many bent riders who can do that power for 44 minutes".

Right. Weak flex. Weak.

To the rest.........ya'll realize there's stage finish times for TTT's done on road bikes, right? And there's also stage finish times for plenty of pro ITT's. Sorry to say, the road bike TTT's are universally slower. I already posted the example from a real result.

Ganna did 33mph in Imola. Aeroweenie puts a roadie with a .300 CdA on a road bike at 630w for that speed. Which is a great CdA for a road bike setup. Most pros can probably do 630 for 90 seconds? Maybe 120 seconds? Ganna did Imola in about 35min. 35min divided by 2min worth of pulling?

Try again.
Honestly, you are full of crap. USA Cycling does not allow recumbents in races and I have never been allowed to race in any local trials. So, you try again.

Here is my CdA with front light, no skinsuit on, and with a mirror. This is a full 6 months of speed data including many 200k, 300k, 400k, 600k and Paris Brest Paris. OP vaguely asked if a TT bike could win. Mine could.




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Old 06-15-22, 08:06 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
"..just another arm of Big Gravel"? Like this guy?
That's his business partner, Big Sand. Together they will take over the cycling world.
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Old 06-15-22, 11:27 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Honestly, you are full of crap. USA Cycling does not allow recumbents in races and I have never been allowed to race in any local trials. So, you try again.

Here is my CdA with front light, no skinsuit on, and with a mirror. This is a full 6 months of speed data including many 200k, 300k, 400k, 600k and Paris Brest Paris. OP vaguely asked if a TT bike could win. Mine could.
You don't ride a TT bike, you ride a recumbent. So no, you try to keep it on topic. "TT bike" isn't remotely vague. There's even a youtube video where Campanaerts already did this in a youtube video..........with a TT bike. TT bike is a recognized class of bike, with geometry and other rules within many series.

You love to derail these topics with your recumbent stuff. It is perfectly fine to be as proud as you are about it, but you don't stay ON TOPIC. Sometimes, it's "close enough" to being on topic. Frequently it isn't. Would it make sense for an unrestricted e-bike person posting up in the topic to contribute to "Would one TT bike win a full pro team of road racers?". No it wouldn't. Neither would a recumbent person trying to wedge into the topic so they can backdoor brag either.

So, here's the results sheet. So........do you deny facts also? Recumbent and handcycle class.
https://www.webscorer.com/race?raceid=277148&embed=1
And........on the USA Cycling page:
Results for Carolinas Cycling Association (NC/SC) Regional Time Trial Championship - USA Cycling

You've got a pride problem with this, and it permeates the forum with some of the topics. Advice is to take it from an 11 down to like a 5 or 6, out of 10.
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Old 06-17-22, 10:52 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
Bents are banned for a reason, besides they are afraid of hills, but yes they are killer on flats. I kind of want one.... there is some stigma for some reason though
There is a reason alright. Just look at them.
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Old 06-17-22, 11:38 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
You don't ride a TT bike, you ride a recumbent. So no, you try to keep it on topic. "TT bike" isn't remotely vague. There's even a youtube video where Campanaerts already did this in a youtube video..........with a TT bike. TT bike is a recognized class of bike, with geometry and other rules within many series.

You love to derail these topics with your recumbent stuff. It is perfectly fine to be as proud as you are about it, but you don't stay ON TOPIC. Sometimes, it's "close enough" to being on topic. Frequently it isn't. Would it make sense for an unrestricted e-bike person posting up in the topic to contribute to "Would one TT bike win a full pro team of road racers?". No it wouldn't. Neither would a recumbent person trying to wedge into the topic so they can backdoor brag either.

So, here's the results sheet. So........do you deny facts also? Recumbent and handcycle class.
https://www.webscorer.com/race?raceid=277148&embed=1
And........on the USA Cycling page:
Results for Carolinas Cycling Association (NC/SC) Regional Time Trial Championship - USA Cycling

You've got a pride problem with this, and it permeates the forum with some of the topics. Advice is to take it from an 11 down to like a 5 or 6, out of 10.
dude this thread is about comparing bike speeds, obviously a TT bike isnít faster than 8 roadies drafting efficiently. Itís not even close. Throwing recumbents into the mix is interesting because they are the only bikes outside of bizarre velomobiles that would stand a chance. They are the fastest bikes on flat ground and banned
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Old 06-17-22, 12:46 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
dude this thread is about comparing bike speeds, obviously a TT bike isnít faster than 8 roadies drafting efficiently. Itís not even close.
Did you read my math above? Ganna's UCI TT World's winning speed at Imola (53kph) would require the lead roadie in the group of 8 to be pulling at about 620w. Most of the championship TT's are about 40k. Some pro or worlds routes are longer. Richmond was 33.5 miles. At his TT pace that's an hour. So, you've got to split 60 minutes of 620w among eight riders, somehow. That's not even including the power still required in the draft. Often quoted savings is 45%. So 55% of 620w is 340w. Doable for pros, but there's zero chance they'll be able to recover at 340w then take pulls at 620w. So, 60min divided 8 ways is about 7min each. You think the pros can pull for 7min each at 620w and recover at 340? No. They're good, but not that good.

Power figures courtesy of aeroweenie calc for 80kg bike and rider, 1.19 air density, .195 TT rider CdA, .300 roadie CdA, .400 CRR, and 53 kph. 53kph is what Ganna won Imola doing. Solo.

The math isn't on your side. They've also done pro and cat 1 crits on outdoor velodromes. Those often average about 30mph, with about 35 or 40 riders.

Campanaerts in the youtube video pulled roadies and a TT bike OFF his wheel, not just them racing separate. They couldn't hold his wheel while he rode the TT bike. In the video the Alpecin rider on the road bike is Louis Vervaeke. A pro. Ridden off the wheel. 20th in the 2021 Giro Italia.

C'mon ya'll.........give it up.

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Old 06-17-22, 01:23 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Honestly, nobody asked you. You've for years jumped into topics like this with the recumbent stuff with questionable data, claims, and "this would crush that" nonsense.

You even contradict yourself in your own post when you start backpedalling your claims from "destroy that record" to "there are not too many bent riders who can do that power for 44 minutes".

Right. Weak flex. Weak.

To the rest.........ya'll realize there's stage finish times for TTT's done on road bikes, right? And there's also stage finish times for plenty of pro ITT's. Sorry to say, the road bike TTT's are universally slower. I already posted the example from a real result.

Ganna did 33mph in Imola. Aeroweenie puts a roadie with a .300 CdA on a road bike at 630w for that speed. Which is a great CdA for a road bike setup. Most pros can probably do 630 for 90 seconds? Maybe 120 seconds? Ganna did Imola in about 35min. 35min divided by 2min worth of pulling?

Try again.
Originally Posted by LosPesos View Post
Wow! 630w at front for one hour divided with eight team members... I would say that's impossible. It's not resting behind either.
That 630W for an hour is only for the rider up front. Say they do a continuous rotation; so each rider just keeps the pace and when the rider in front pulls off and drops back behind, he likewise pulls over and slides back. So he spent what? 30 seconds in the full wind at speed? Every 4 minutes does it again. 15 times. Yes, hard but not absurd for a trained pro. With the accelerations that happen racing, he probably does half that every aggressive pro start with a big fight to establish the breakaway. Then he still has to go and race the next 150 kilometers to the finish.
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Old 06-17-22, 03:03 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Ghazmh View Post
Shirtless Larry would win.
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Old 06-18-22, 02:02 PM
  #40  
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I always find it ironic that people always talk about how fast recumbents are, yet in practice the recumbent riders I see are rarely fast.

It may be the extra drag from the gray beards that’s the problem.
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Old 06-18-22, 03:11 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
I always find it ironic that people always talk about how fast recumbents are, yet in practice the recumbent riders I see are rarely fast.

It may be the extra drag from the gray beards thatís the problem.
I know one recumbent rider that is pretty fast. The rest are slow, mostly because it's hard to pedal hard when you're constantly telling everyone they should be on a recumbent.
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Old 06-30-22, 11:56 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
I always find it ironic that people always talk about how fast recumbents are, yet in practice the recumbent riders I see are rarely fast.

It may be the extra drag from the gray beards thatís the problem.
This. I've been on multiple group rides where a 'bent showed up, and not one single time was that rider ever able to hang with the group. They were dropped, every time, couldn't even hang in a group. But yeah, 'bents are wicked fast.

As for the original argument, it would be interesting to see how many pros it would take to beat a pro on a TT bike. GCN showed that it took four amateurs and a pro to beat an amateur on a TT bike (and just barely). The only question is how many pros it would take to beat the pro on a TT bike.
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Old 06-30-22, 07:21 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Power figures courtesy of aeroweenie calc for 80kg bike and rider, 1.19 air density, .195 TT rider CdA, .300 roadie CdA, .400 CRR, and 53 kph. 53kph is what Ganna won Imola doing. Solo.
It would be interesting to see where the aero advantage of the TT bike comes from. What if the road bike is fitted similarly as the TT (a la @timtak) and riding in invisible aerobar? After all there is no need for comfort for the road bike.
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Old 06-30-22, 07:31 PM
  #44  
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Lead pro rider is not going to have a CdA of 0.300, this is as unlikely as a TT rider having a CdA of 0.180, more like 0.250 for the lead rider.

550-600 watts of 20-30 seconds every 2-4 minutes is achievable for a pro.

What do you guys do your Tabata intervals at?
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Old 06-30-22, 07:34 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
You don't ride a TT bike, you ride a recumbent. So no, you try to keep it on topic. "TT bike" isn't remotely vague. There's even a youtube video where Campanaerts already did this in a youtube video..........with a TT bike. TT bike is a recognized class of bike, with geometry and other rules within many series.

You love to derail these topics with your recumbent stuff. It is perfectly fine to be as proud as you are about it, but you don't stay ON TOPIC. Sometimes, it's "close enough" to being on topic. Frequently it isn't. Would it make sense for an unrestricted e-bike person posting up in the topic to contribute to "Would one TT bike win a full pro team of road racers?". No it wouldn't. Neither would a recumbent person trying to wedge into the topic so they can backdoor brag either.

So, here's the results sheet. So........do you deny facts also? Recumbent and handcycle class.
https://www.webscorer.com/race?raceid=277148&embed=1
And........on the USA Cycling page:
Results for Carolinas Cycling Association (NC/SC) Regional Time Trial Championship - USA Cycling

You've got a pride problem with this, and it permeates the forum with some of the topics. Advice is to take it from an 11 down to like a 5 or 6, out of 10.
I have not ridden a recumbent bike for over a year. I have a TT bike. You mischaracterized me completely. I have not been a member here for years. I think you mistake me for ridabent member.

What I know about you from here and other forums? You are a relatively new rider. You purchased speed with fancy equipment and probably have a low CdA powered by a mediocre FTP getting you some local TT wins. Big deal. How about you take it down a notch or two
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Old 07-01-22, 05:14 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
How about you take it down a notch or two
Simmer down, Kettle.
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Old 07-01-22, 06:43 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
You purchased speed with fancy equipment and probably have a low CdA powered by a mediocre FTP getting you some local TT wins. Big deal. How about you take it down a notch or two
Simply: there are those that do, and those that do not.

The stereotypical ignorant "I could do that with fancier equipment" or in this case "you can only do that due to your wallet" retort. The lazy response to assume one can buy Ganna's bike and go even remotely fast on the bike. Seen it all too many times. Sure, have at it. Open wallet, stay slow.

Again, the best indicator of performance is performance itself. AKA, results. We had a guy on our race team run out and buy the fanciest Cannondale Slice when I was still running my free carbon repaired Felt DA frameset. He couldn't ever get it setup to his liking even with a local fitter, he never rode it. Never tested anything aero-wise with the fit. Sold it, quit TT.

It's 95% in the fit and the legs, and that's all homework and no wallet. But, since you say you have a TT bike you should already know that. Especially if we have posts in this topic with Golden Cheetah virtual elevation going on. That's homework, that's not a wallet. That homework is worth vastly more than the equipment.
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Old 07-01-22, 07:45 AM
  #48  
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Old 07-01-22, 08:01 AM
  #49  
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No, because a full pro team of road racers is not being offered as a prize.
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