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18mph pace

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

18mph pace

Old 07-19-22, 02:31 PM
  #76  
Eric F
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
So basically a roadside kit for puncture repairs.

I carry my roadside kit in this minimalist Lezyne Roll Caddy. Enough room for all the necessary bits. Stuff doesn't jostle around, and the roll tucks tightly against the saddle. Very aero.

Would this be able to fit in a jersey pocket? I'm in need of a new solution for tube, tools, etc., and I like the look of that, but much prefer to carry stuff on my body, rather than my bike.
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Old 07-19-22, 02:58 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by VegasJen View Post
OK, maybe I was confusing your question about the bag and my belt. I thought you were referring to the belt I was wearing. The saddle bag has a CO2 inflator and a couple cartridges, spare tube, couple of levers and a pair of Allen wrenches. That's all that's in there but it's not really that big a bag. There's very little room left.
What is a Mondo?
Maybe I could have been clearer, I get it also now...
Small waist pack/bag is a good idea way to carry a key and also a Med/Insurance ID, should a mishape make it necessary...
The saddlebag though, is low hanging fruit in the 'aero' game. Weight is minor, but saddlebags are always 'loose' and moving/flopping around some - an aero hit for sure...
not having on the bike during a competition is free aero improvement. I would expect most organized Tris have some form of marshalling, and doing repairs pretty much puts 'paid' to your best time...
Better to assure the bike, wheels, tires are in top form before the race, learn how to 'sweep' the tires when going thru what might be significant road grit.
Mondo = Mondopoint - an ISO sizing method for footwear, been very dominant in the winter sports areas for many decades, but also making in-roads now into other athletic footwear.
SO you have US, UK, Euro and Mondo....
Popped up right after I posted here... I ordered some new EKOI Carbon cycling shoes last night, french company and they use Mondo as their comparison on their sizing chart - so 45 Euro in EKOI shoes is 28.6 Mondo...
Mondo is actually a real measure of the foot length, unlike all the other sizing methods (EU, UK , US - US is close in inches, but not so close these days and lots of variability)
Mondo is the actual length of the foot from most forward toe to back of heel, in cm... so footwear designed for that length foot, and needing consideration of width, arch length, volume etc...

Speed, on a bike, is all incremental things, others jest about something being small, insignificant change - same guys who will spend big bucks for 'minor' equipment changes which might cost substantial bucks - but if it's free, it's for me... if tucking my elbows is better, and I can do it... I would/will.
Ride On
Yuri

Last edited by cyclezen; 07-19-22 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 07-19-22, 03:05 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by VegasJen View Post
those true athletes
You are a true athlete! If you saw the amount of walking at Ironmans, 70.3s, and honestly most tris... you're not walking there, however you feel.

Hell I've walked more than once and you'd insist I'm an athlete.
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Old 07-19-22, 03:57 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
You are a true athlete! If you saw the amount of walking at Ironmans, 70.3s, and honestly most tris... you're not walking there, however you feel.

Hell I've walked more than once and you'd insist I'm an athlete.
Oh, I've walked too. Actually, I think this was the first tri where I didn't walk at some point during the run. There were a few places, mostly up a mild incline, where it was more of a shuffle, but it was never a walk. Plus, that pic (where I'm in blue) is actually from this last event. The series I posted in purple is from my previous tri in April. I did much better on that one. Even though it was an Olympic, so all legs were greater distance, I was running about a 9:30 pace.
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Old 07-19-22, 04:11 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by cyclezen View Post
Maybe I could have been clearer, I get it also now...
Small waist pack/bag is a good idea way to carry a key and also a Med/Insurance ID, should a mishape make it necessary...
The saddlebag though, is low hanging fruit in the 'aero' game. Weight is minor, but saddlebags are always 'loose' and moving/flopping around some - an aero hit for sure...
not having on the bike during a competition is free aero improvement. I would expect most organized Tris have some form of marshalling, and doing repairs pretty much puts 'paid' to your best time...
Better to assure the bike, wheels, tires are in top form before the race, learn how to 'sweep' the tires when going thru what might be significant road grit.
Mondo = Mondopoint - an ISO sizing method for footwear, been very dominant in the winter sports areas for many decades, but also making in-roads now into other athletic footwear.
SO you have US, UK, Euro and Mondo....
Popped up right after I posted here... I ordered some new EKOI Carbon cycling shoes last night, french company and they use Mondo as their comparison on their sizing chart - so 45 Euro in EKOI shoes is 28.6 Mondo...
Mondo is actually a real measure of the foot length, unlike all the other sizing methods (EU, UK , US - US is close in inches, but not so close these days and lots of variability)
Mondo is the actual length of the foot from most forward toe to back of heel, in cm... so footwear designed for that length foot, and needing consideration of width, arch length, volume etc...

Speed, on a bike, is all incremental things, others jest about something being small, insignificant change - same guys who will spend big bucks for 'minor' equipment changes which might cost substantial bucks - but if it's free, it's for me... if tucking my elbows is better, and I can do it... I would/will.
Ride On
Yuri
Interesting about Mondo. First I've heard of it. I'm a little sketchy about ordering shoes online though. I have fairly large feet, size 10 (US) in women's. Everything I see says that's suppose to be a size 9 in a men's shoe but if I wear a men's shoe, I routinely wear an 8. I can sometimes wear a 7.5. I haven't figured that one out yet. I did order a pair of Bont skates a couple years back and they use the Euro (I think) standard. I did the measurements they stated on the website and came up with a 41 so that's what I ordered but that's just a little too big. I think in Euro I'm more like a 40. Not to mention I think the measurement, or maybe manufacturing standards, are pretty loose. I've had one brand of shoe that fits me in a 9.5 (women's) but had to go all the way to an 11 in another brand.
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Old 07-19-22, 04:42 PM
  #81  
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I don't think anyone's mentioned this: rat traps and toe clips. This is the cheap but workable stuff::
https://amazon.com/SEQI-Outdoor-Cycl.../dp/B07T7NLZDP
and this the more trad:
https://www.amazon.com/cyclingcolors.../dp/B07KCL441K



You'd use your running shoes - no transition. This is what I used when I was a teen ager. Did my first solo century, rode to work, rode to my girl friend's, etc. They make a huge difference. Totally worth a try. I always put my right foot down when I stop, so when I get into these pedals, I tighten the left strap and thread it through the buckle. I start pedaling with the right pedal upside down. Once I'm going along nicely, I slip my foot into the toe clip, reach down and tighten the right strap, but don't thread it through the buckle. To stop, I reach down and just touch the right buckle and pull my foot out. I never had a problem, even riding in downtown Seattle traffic (very hilly). Note the roller and teeth location in the buckle. This buckle design is very old, at least 120 years.

If you ride enough, the pedals will wear little grooves in the bottoms of your shoes, so the foot retention becomes evermore secure.
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Old 07-19-22, 05:54 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
Would this be able to fit in a jersey pocket? I'm in need of a new solution for tube, tools, etc., and I like the look of that, but much prefer to carry stuff on my body, rather than my bike.
Sure, it's about the right size for a jersey pocket.
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Old 07-19-22, 06:24 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
I don't think anyone's mentioned this: rat traps and toe clips. This is the cheap but workable stuff::
https://amazon.com/SEQI-Outdoor-Cycl.../dp/B07T7NLZDP
and this the more trad:
https://www.amazon.com/cyclingcolors.../dp/B07KCL441K



You'd use your running shoes - no transition. This is what I used when I was a teen ager. Did my first solo century, rode to work, rode to my girl friend's, etc. They make a huge difference. Totally worth a try. I always put my right foot down when I stop, so when I get into these pedals, I tighten the left strap and thread it through the buckle. I start pedaling with the right pedal upside down. Once I'm going along nicely, I slip my foot into the toe clip, reach down and tighten the right strap, but don't thread it through the buckle. To stop, I reach down and just touch the right buckle and pull my foot out. I never had a problem, even riding in downtown Seattle traffic (very hilly). Note the roller and teeth location in the buckle. This buckle design is very old, at least 120 years.

If you ride enough, the pedals will wear little grooves in the bottoms of your shoes, so the foot retention becomes evermore secure.
I think I had an old bike back in the 80s that had some of those on the pedals. Frankly, I would be more willing to try those, at least for starters than investing in dedicated bike shoes. Cheap way to get a feel for the cost/benefit factor.
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Old 07-19-22, 07:00 PM
  #84  
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This is an option as well.

https://www.powergrips.com/
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Old 07-19-22, 07:38 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
This is an option as well.

https://www.powergrips.com/
I like those. I have pedals on a couple of my every day bikes those would work with.
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Old 07-20-22, 08:23 AM
  #86  
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1. Bike shoes with velcro, they make them for tri. Used set if cost is a factor.
2. Good running shoes can improve your pace a LOT. Go to a local run store and have them watch your gait and explain the distance/event you're doing. I swapped run shoes and literally gained about 15 sec/mi.
3. Ignore the folks talking about biking in the run shoes to save transition time. They don't know what they're talking about. Put elastic laces in your run shoes so you can slip them on quickly.
4. Take the multisport questions to slowtwitch.com . Bikeforums knows jack squat nothing about multisport, as a general rule. You'll get a warm reception and folks willing to help with lots of multisport knowledge.
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Old 07-24-22, 07:58 PM
  #87  
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Jen, your number-one roadblock to going faster on that bike is your riding position hands-down. The science says that the biggest factors in going fast on a bike are the power you can generate, and aerodynamics, everything else is small-fish.

The science also says that being a "big" rider is not much of a penalty on any type of route except for going up hills. I am 60 years old, 200 pounds, and had a heart-attack and surgery last year and also tore the ACL in my right knee, but I have been slowly coming back, I just averaged 19.4xmph in a TT a few weeks ago, and I know I will continue to get faster barring any more health problems or accidents.

I raced bikes a few decades ago and of course was much faster then, but the point is I have experience in going fast. I can remember 25 years ago having a digital speedometer on my race-bike and watching the mph increase as I got more and more horizontal on the bike. Once you get close to 20mph, aerodynamics count more and more, it becomes critical, as wind resistance eats up power exponentially with an increase in speed.

If you keep your current riding position, you are going to have to come up with a lot more power to get two more mph, but if you get horizontal you may not have to come up with hardly any more than you have right now. The longer you ride at a very low horizontal position, the more you will get used to it and the less your neck will hurt, you will develop the flexibility and muscles in your neck just as you would with any other part of your body you work on. Also you move your neck around during the ride, don't keep it in the same rigid position. turn it to the left, to the right, look down and back etc. every now and then and that will keep it loose.

A lot of the time I am going fast I am looking straight down at the pavement just steering by the lines on the road and just looking up periodically to see the traffic ahead and the way the road is curving. The more you practice, the better you can do this.
When you get really "aero" you will hear the wind noise mostly vanish.

I really enjoy food, but I don't eat like I did when I was young that is for sure, it is a good thing for older folks to switch from quantity to quality in the food area, once you do that and combine it with how you are training you will drop weight and you will pick up power from better food and good sleep helps a lot too. Early to bed, early to rise. Here is a photo of my race bike, notice the drop from the seat to the bars, and I get my face darn close to those bars when I am trying to go fast, if I hit a pothole I would probably break my nose or lose some teeth. Your seat looks the same height or even lower than the top of your bars, and that is what is stealing your power and speed no doubt.


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Old 07-24-22, 08:42 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by VegasJen View Post
Sweet baby Jesus! I checked out the link and the "best value" shoes start around $250. I have bikes I didn't pay that much for.
You can get good shoes for much cheaper, but you do have to change out your pedals, so it will be some expense.

Also, I don't know if this has been discussed, but are you drafting behind other riders? Is that against triathlon etiquette? You can go 1.5 mph faster over that distance just by drafting.

And finally, folks are saying to compete against yourself and not others. And ultimately, that is the most meaningful competition, I agree, but nothing wrong w/ comparing yourself to others if you do it in a positive way. If it's inspiring, it's positive. Finding out that older riders are faster than me is encouraging. Shows me what's possible. If I work hard and can't match someone, then I can be happy for them, knowing how hard it is.

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Old 07-24-22, 08:49 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by CoogansBluff View Post
Also, I don't know if this has been discussed, but are you drafting behind other riders? Is that against triathlon etiquette? You can go 1.5 mph faster over that distance just by drafting.
Against the rules, not just etiquette (except for a few draft-legal races that aren't relevant here). Now, the rules are often poorly-enforced, but following distance and time-to-pass are on the books.
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Old 07-24-22, 08:53 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
Against the rules, not just etiquette (except for a few draft-legal races that aren't relevant here). Now, the rules are often poorly-enforced, but following distance and time-to-pass are on the books.
That makes sense, thanks for clarifying. I've never participated in a tri event.
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Old 07-25-22, 02:16 AM
  #91  
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Me too! I agree with everything that everyone says here, especially beng1, EricF and carbonfibreboy and terrymorse about ways to get a bit lower.

But, if you do go for the shoes, there are some cheaper shoes on ebay in (I am guessing) a size 8
Mountain bike for $25
https://www.ebay.com/itm/27503901682...QAAOSwJv1hnWBO
or these for $50
https://www.ebay.com/itm/23461070255...EAAOSwgCpiTcjW

Clip in shoes can be dangerous at first (I fell of more than once not realising I had to clip out before reaching a standstill!) so the straps that carbonfibreboy recommends may be better at first.

A polyester rather than cotton T-shirt will do and not soak up sweat may help but, perhaps because you are in a desert, you don't seem to be getting wet.
(I get them at thrift stores, the ones that are given away at a marathons, with the name of the marathon on it. I am wearing one now.)

But most of all what beng1 says at about raising your seat so that your thighs don't hit your torso when you lower your bars a little bit at a time/ You may wish to put your saddle forward like beng1's too to make it easier to go down forward and low. And also as Beng1 says, not feeling you have to have your head craned up *all the time*. If you crane your head up every now and again, and look out of the top of your brows most of the rest of the time instead, or down at the road too but that comes with risks.

I used to put my seat way up in the air! Here I am 13 years ago, hiding and trying to avoid my belly. I had been cycling for about a year so I had already got rid of quite a lot it.
Form by Timothy Takemoto, on Flickr

I think you are doing really well and should just keep doing the same for a few more times. You will see results.

Tim

I am glad I got to see beng1's bike!

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Old 07-25-22, 03:09 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by VegasJen View Post
.............................................
At the risk of taking this thread too far off the subject, I went back to my previous tri and put together an image of my run. Not exactly the best image. I had to piece this together from several separate photos. Now, bear in mind that this was an Olympic and I was exhausted. But I'm never far off the ground. Again, I'm carrying a lot more mass than any of those true athletes. But it goes back to what I was saying earlier in that I don't have the spring in my feet I used to have. I think some of that is simply age-related muscle loss, and some of it is that I'm just carrying a lot more weight than most athletes.

Late coming into your thread but a little suggestion that after looking at the above photos, you might want to check out Danny Dreyer's Chi Running and/or Chi Walking.

*What is ChiRunning technique?
ChiRunning is a running technique focused on reducing the impact of running on the joints and muscles of body and therefore avoiding the onset of running related injuries. In the words of the ChiRunning founder, Danny Dreyer, “Its not running that's bad for your body, its how you run that damages the body”.*

*Who invented ChiRunning?...........
The technique is the brain child of American Tai Chi practitioner and ultramarathon runner Danny Dreyer, who in the late 90's, after working closely with Tai Chi masters, developed this new running technique. He put what he had learned onto paper when he co-wrote ChiRunning (2004) with his wife Katherine Dreyer.*

ChiWalking was the ONLY WAY I was able to complete the 5K's to Full Marathon stand alone events or the distances in my Sprint to Ironman Triathlons.

p.s. -
as a 60.5yo GEEZER with bowed legs and bone on bone knees my PB marathon was at WDW's 2011 Marathon Weekend, my first marathon and having already done the 5K on Friday and the Half Marathon on Saturday I ChiWalked the FULL on Sunday in 4:56:28.

BTW - GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENTS and KUDOS 2 U
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Old 07-25-22, 07:25 PM
  #93  
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Fancy bike pedals are a waste of money unless you are doing very steep hills as in mountain-biking or 100-yard dashes. I am linking to a video reviewing the science research on this, showing that flat pedals are just as fast as expensive pedals in most all situations. I use flat pedals all I can, I think the pedals that clip shoes to them are a waste of time except for working pros.

Also back to being aerodynamic, I did not think of it before, but your bike may actually be too big for you. The frame of your bike should be small enough so that you can put the seat up high above the top of the bars but still reach the pedals. I am almost 6'3" tall, and when I first started trying to go fast I had one of the ridiculous Schwinn road bikes that had a 27" seat-post !!! I had to have the seat all the way down just to reach the pedals, so I could not raise it and get my body horizontal. Then I got a bike with a 25" seat-post and that let me get pretty low on the bike and go much faster. Now I am riding a bike with a 24" seat-post because it has a shorter head-tube and I can put the bars lower in relation to the seat, it is the best frame size I have had for speed yet, wish I had tried this size 25 years ago when I could make a lot more power than I can presently.
You don't need expensive equipment at all, what is important is that it is in good condition. One of the main things I check on my bikes is the rear derailleur, their wheels get sticky and dirty with time and can create a lot of drag, so I take mine apart and clean them with solvent and put them back together either dry or with the tiniest bit of light grease on the wheel bearings, then my chain will fly through the derailleur the best it can.

So keep working out on your bike, but keep an eye out for any cheap used bike with a smaller frame that was name-brand when it was new. It can be old too, as for relatively flat courses you don't need more than one to three gear ratios, so you can get away with one of the old ten or twelve-speed bikes no problem. When I was younger I used to be able to go over 23mph average on my old 12-speed bike over twelve or more miles easily. My current race bike is a 10-speeder from 1973. When you get used to riding with your body horizontal you can switch to the smaller frame bike and get even more horizontal and pick up even more speed.

If I can think of anything else I will let you know.

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Old 07-26-22, 05:27 AM
  #94  
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I did think of something else, it is an old saying that goes; "You get in shape to run, you don't run to get in shape". One of the most common things people I know that are close to my age give or take get to do is have knee and hip replacements. If having fun matters more to you than finishing the triathlon at a certain speed, then quit running the running part of it and just walk it, until at such a point in the future you get back down to the weight you were at when you were in shape in the marines. I know a 72 year old woman who runs all the time and does triathlons, and she is quite tall, but she is like a twig so there is no big stress on her knees or hip joints. If I try running anymore I do it on grass or sand, when I was young I used to run on pavement with bare feet and it did not bother me. The people who interjected about running styles and minimizing movement are hitting the nail on the head. I see overweight people trying to run all the time locally on paved routes and it makes me cringe thinking about what they are doing to their knees and hips. I wish they would switch to walking, cycling or swimming and concentrate on diet until they dropped off most of their bodyfat before they got into running.

I wish I could run like I did when I was young, I was in track in H.S. and did 10Ks and run/bike events after H.S., but heart problems took that away from me along with age. Once you are old and out of shape, it is a long road back to being able to do anything that a 20 or 30 year-old can. I have tried jogging and running over the last year but it simply does not feel good anymore. I used to be able to do a 7-minute mile pace or even a little better when I was young in H.S., and some sixty year old people can probably do things like that, but it is not going to be us big heavy people, we are just hurting ourselves. I love riding a cycle, and I love going for walks and waking up in the morning and many other things, so I don't have to be able to run to enjoy living.
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Old 07-26-22, 05:29 AM
  #95  
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Aerodynamics of big vs TT type cycling shoes is a no brainer. Is it worth the money for her right now? Doubtful. Metabolic and gross efficiency is irrelevant.

Vegas........you have a lot of low hanging fruit with your position. Start there. Don't go buying gear. Things like wheels might get you a couple watts at 18 mph, shoes might get you 1 watts, a frame might get you a couple watts. Getting your position improved over time will be like 10 times better than a fancy set of wheels.
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Old 07-26-22, 07:46 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
Jen, your number-one roadblock to going faster on that bike is your riding position hands-down. The science says that the biggest factors in going fast on a bike are the power you can generate, and aerodynamics, everything else is small-fish.

The science also says that being a "big" rider is not much of a penalty on any type of route except for going up hills. I am 60 years old, 200 pounds, and had a heart-attack and surgery last year and also tore the ACL in my right knee, but I have been slowly coming back, I just averaged 19.4xmph in a TT a few weeks ago, and I know I will continue to get faster barring any more health problems or accidents.

I raced bikes a few decades ago and of course was much faster then, but the point is I have experience in going fast. I can remember 25 years ago having a digital speedometer on my race-bike and watching the mph increase as I got more and more horizontal on the bike. Once you get close to 20mph, aerodynamics count more and more, it becomes critical, as wind resistance eats up power exponentially with an increase in speed.

If you keep your current riding position, you are going to have to come up with a lot more power to get two more mph, but if you get horizontal you may not have to come up with hardly any more than you have right now. The longer you ride at a very low horizontal position, the more you will get used to it and the less your neck will hurt, you will develop the flexibility and muscles in your neck just as you would with any other part of your body you work on. Also you move your neck around during the ride, don't keep it in the same rigid position. turn it to the left, to the right, look down and back etc. every now and then and that will keep it loose.

A lot of the time I am going fast I am looking straight down at the pavement just steering by the lines on the road and just looking up periodically to see the traffic ahead and the way the road is curving. The more you practice, the better you can do this.
When you get really "aero" you will hear the wind noise mostly vanish.

I really enjoy food, but I don't eat like I did when I was young that is for sure, it is a good thing for older folks to switch from quantity to quality in the food area, once you do that and combine it with how you are training you will drop weight and you will pick up power from better food and good sleep helps a lot too. Early to bed, early to rise. Here is a photo of my race bike, notice the drop from the seat to the bars, and I get my face darn close to those bars when I am trying to go fast, if I hit a pothole I would probably break my nose or lose some teeth. Your seat looks the same height or even lower than the top of your bars, and that is what is stealing your power and speed no doubt.


Ya, a lot of times, I focus on the lines too. My biggest concern is hitting rocks big enough to puncture tires. I've wondered if anybody made something like a reverse periscope, something where I can keep my head down but see the road in front of me. I could get a lot lower tomorrow if it weren't for having to bend my neck to see where I'm going.
Originally Posted by CoogansBluff View Post
You can get good shoes for much cheaper, but you do have to change out your pedals, so it will be some expense.

Also, I don't know if this has been discussed, but are you drafting behind other riders? Is that against triathlon etiquette? You can go 1.5 mph faster over that distance just by drafting.

And finally, folks are saying to compete against yourself and not others. And ultimately, that is the most meaningful competition, I agree, but nothing wrong w/ comparing yourself to others if you do it in a positive way. If it's inspiring, it's positive. Finding out that older riders are faster than me is encouraging. Shows me what's possible. If I work hard and can't match someone, then I can be happy for them, knowing how hard it is.
I just happened to pick up a pair of used shoes in good shape pretty cheap. Sidi(?), I think they're a size 9 (men's). I have quite a bit of room in the toe so I cut up an old sock and stuffed it in there. Far from a permanent solution, but I bought them more to test the theory. If I see the advantages everybody else swears by, then I'll pony up for some new ones that actually fit me.
Originally Posted by OldTryGuy View Post
Late coming into your thread but a little suggestion that after looking at the above photos, you might want to check out Danny Dreyer's Chi Running and/or Chi Walking.

*What is ChiRunning technique?
ChiRunning is a running technique focused on reducing the impact of running on the joints and muscles of body and therefore avoiding the onset of running related injuries. In the words of the ChiRunning founder, Danny Dreyer, “Its not running that's bad for your body, its how you run that damages the body”.*

*Who invented ChiRunning?...........
The technique is the brain child of American Tai Chi practitioner and ultramarathon runner Danny Dreyer, who in the late 90's, after working closely with Tai Chi masters, developed this new running technique. He put what he had learned onto paper when he co-wrote ChiRunning (2004) with his wife Katherine Dreyer.*

ChiWalking was the ONLY WAY I was able to complete the 5K's to Full Marathon stand alone events or the distances in my Sprint to Ironman Triathlons.

p.s. -
as a 60.5yo GEEZER with bowed legs and bone on bone knees my PB marathon was at WDW's 2011 Marathon Weekend, my first marathon and having already done the 5K on Friday and the Half Marathon on Saturday I ChiWalked the FULL on Sunday in 4:56:28.

BTW - GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENTS and KUDOS 2 U
I will check out the ChiWalk thing. I need to do something. If I'm just running a 5 or 10k, my form looks a lot better. But honestly, by the time I've swam and ridden, regardless of distance, my run form goes all to hell.
Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
Fancy bike pedals are a waste of money unless you are doing very steep hills as in mountain-biking or 100-yard dashes. I am linking to a video reviewing the science research on this, showing that flat pedals are just as fast as expensive pedals in most all situations. I use flat pedals all I can, I think the pedals that clip shoes to them are a waste of time except for working pros.

Also back to being aerodynamic, I did not think of it before, but your bike may actually be too big for you. The frame of your bike should be small enough so that you can put the seat up high above the top of the bars but still reach the pedals. I am almost 6'3" tall, and when I first started trying to go fast I had one of the ridiculous Schwinn road bikes that had a 27" seat-post !!! I had to have the seat all the way down just to reach the pedals, so I could not raise it and get my body horizontal. Then I got a bike with a 25" seat-post and that let me get pretty low on the bike and go much faster. Now I am riding a bike with a 24" seat-post because it has a shorter head-tube and I can put the bars lower in relation to the seat, it is the best frame size I have had for speed yet, wish I had tried this size 25 years ago when I could make a lot more power than I can presently.
You don't need expensive equipment at all, what is important is that it is in good condition. One of the main things I check on my bikes is the rear derailleur, their wheels get sticky and dirty with time and can create a lot of drag, so I take mine apart and clean them with solvent and put them back together either dry or with the tiniest bit of light grease on the wheel bearings, then my chain will fly through the derailleur the best it can.

So keep working out on your bike, but keep an eye out for any cheap used bike with a smaller frame that was name-brand when it was new. It can be old too, as for relatively flat courses you don't need more than one to three gear ratios, so you can get away with one of the old ten or twelve-speed bikes no problem. When I was younger I used to be able to go over 23mph average on my old 12-speed bike over twelve or more miles easily. My current race bike is a 10-speeder from 1973. When you get used to riding with your body horizontal you can switch to the smaller frame bike and get even more horizontal and pick up even more speed.

If I can think of anything else I will let you know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUEaN9FKGLE
Thanks for this video. I have been skeptical of how much clips and shoes really add as far as power. I get more stability and control, but putting power in, I just didn't see they would be such a huge advantage. This more or less confirms that. My biggest, only really, complaint with using flat pedals is just my foot moving around as I pedal. I do notice that I have to frequently reposition my foot on the pedal, especially after an incline where I've had to stand up and mash on the pedals. Seems my feet really move around then.
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Old 07-26-22, 10:18 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by VegasJen View Post
Ya, a lot of times, I focus on the lines too. My biggest concern is hitting rocks big enough to puncture tires. I've wondered if anybody made something like a reverse periscope, something where I can keep my head down but see the road in front of me. I could get a lot lower tomorrow if it weren't for having to bend my neck to see where I'm going.
...
I just happened to pick up a pair of used shoes in good shape pretty cheap. Sidi(?), I think they're a size 9 (men's). I have quite a bit of room in the toe so I cut up an old sock and stuffed it in there. Far from a permanent solution, but I bought them more to test the theory. If I see the advantages everybody else swears by, then I'll pony up for some new ones that actually fit me.
...
Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUEaN9FKGLE
...
Thanks for this video. I have been skeptical of how much clips and shoes really add as far as power. I get more stability and control, but putting power in, I just didn't see they would be such a huge advantage. This more or less confirms that. My biggest, only really, complaint with using flat pedals is just my foot moving around as I pedal. I do notice that I have to frequently reposition my foot on the pedal, especially after an incline where I've had to stand up and mash on the pedals. Seems my feet really move around then.
Good vision is key to riding as well as you can, as fast as you can. You've been given a bunch of ideas to improve your position and posture on the bike. Many of them will help you're ability to see and make good choices - in time...

Shoes need to fit, whatever you decide to use. Ill fitting shoes are a step backwards from the outset.
I've not reviewed those studies pointed out in the youtube vid, but I expect they are a narrow focus (and important to be that) and don't cover the various aspects of road riding. The video by a mountain biker, and certainly there are plenty of aspects of flat pedals which would provide equal function... The more involved one is in performance road cycling, the more the benefits of 'clipless' can apply. Not gonna outline because that's way to much.
Your Sidi shoes will require cleats and with pedals to match. It's a 'system'. Improper sized shoes will restrict the ability to properly position the cleats for your pedaling dynamics.
Moving to clipless can be frustrating and frightening for many - so some active help from someone experienced, from the start of putting the system together, putting the cleats in a good position for you, and tips and help for those many first rides - super important.
I can't believe that being able to stuff socks into your cycling shoes is going to be anything close to an 'improvement'.
I fear a greater chance of frustration and unsatisfaction if you struggle with this alone. Better to put off until you can give anything you're best shot.
Even though I noted in my earlier post that good cycling shoes would be a point of great improvement (and I still very much believe that); dialing in your position (to include saddle position) and posture would be quicker in bringing improvements.
Get help from local triathletes with some experience.
Ride On
Yuri
EDIT: Oh and, this is not scientific study, just real world experience from experienced road riders...
and when they say 'science', they love to be Brit tongue-in-check...
real life... go look at and talk to the top finishers in any Tri you do, ask them about their bikes, shoes, pedal systems - anything.
Hear what they say about clipless vs flats...

Last edited by cyclezen; 07-26-22 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 07-27-22, 02:52 AM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
I get my face darn close to those bars when I am trying to go fast, if I hit a pothole I would probably break my nose or lose some teeth.
I never though of it like that before. Since yesterday I have been thinking about how far my face is from my bars and that really helps me become aware of my position. Thank you.

The shoes, as beng1 says, are probably unnecessary in a time trial especially, but since the OP has been given some Sidi shoes (my favourite shoes) a couple of things
1) When I got some shoes that are too big for me it might have hurt my knees (I am not sure, it was manly age and weakness) so I recommend moving the cleat back towards the heel as far as it will go.
2) There are cheap SPD-SL cleats available from China if you decide to go with them. They are a bit dangerous because they have no rubberised bits to grip when you walk but when they get a bit scuffed up they are okay, they last a long time, and are about 1/3 the cost of Shimano.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000409970751.html

And as I said before, clip out before you slow down to stop!! Hips can break.
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Old 07-29-22, 08:49 PM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by timtak View Post
I used to put my seat way up in the air! Here I am 13 years ago, hiding and trying to avoid my belly. I had been cycling for about a year so I had already got rid of quite a lot it.
Form by Timothy Takemoto, on Flickr

I think you are doing really well and should just keep doing the same for a few more times. You will see results.
Tim
I am glad I got to see beng1's bike!
Tim that looks good.
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Old 07-29-22, 09:39 PM
  #100  
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TIL Vegasjen could probably beat me in a fistfight and lift more than me.
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