Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Tight Clinchers and Roadside Repair

Notices
Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

Tight Clinchers and Roadside Repair

Old 08-23-22, 12:25 PM
  #26  
bblair
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 531

Bikes: Lynskey R230, Trek 5200, 1975 Raleigh Pro, 1973 Falcon ,Trek T50 Tandem and a 1968 Paramount in progress.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Liked 250 Times in 156 Posts
Must be the combo. I have American Classic wheels and have no problem with new Conti 4000 or 5000 tires.

But Michelin tires on Shimano wheels? Even the local shop struggled. They were on sale and I told the guy (Performance Bike, may they rest in peace) that I would only buy them if he put them on. So, off to lunch and 30 min later he is still sweating. Maybe that's why they went out of business.
bblair is offline  
Old 08-23-22, 03:40 PM
  #27  
rm -rf
don't try this at home.
 
rm -rf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: N. KY
Posts: 5,669
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 872 Post(s)
Liked 306 Times in 223 Posts
GP5000 has been changed in the last year or so?

I've used GP4000, then GP5000 on my 8 year old HED "tubeless ready" wheels. They "used to be" easy to mount and unmount.
I really like them, with long life, good grip and smooth rolling, and the tire wear indicators.

It's very difficult for me to get the most recent installed (non-TL) GP5000 bead to unseat.

Trying both thumbs pushing, or 8 fingers pull from the other side, either method is extremely hard now. The bead is too tight in the rim to fit any thin tool to pop it out. I eventually got it off after quite a few tries.
Supposedly, a couple of local bike shops have stopped carrying them, just too much trouble. (That seems pretty unlikely though).
I'm assuming Continental modified the bead slightly, and it's now a bit too tight.
I'm seriously thinking of switching to Vittoria or similar tires.

I notice it's somewhat more difficult to mount the tires now, but not extreme. It used to be an easy assist with one tire lever, now it's more effort.

My old Tight Tire howto (from 2010!, with later edits) has the step by step details. This method is still effective when mounting these tight GP5000 tires. The key is to lift less than an inch of bead at a time, slide the lever a little, and repeat.


from the howto:
rm -rf is offline  
Old 08-23-22, 04:08 PM
  #28  
surak
Senior Member
 
surak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,856

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Canyon Inflite AL SLX, Ibis Ripley AF, Priority Continuum Onyx, Santana Vision, Kent Dual-Drive Tandem

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 821 Post(s)
Liked 675 Times in 400 Posts
I used to carry the Koolstop in one of my jersey pockets along with phone and wallet. Not much of a size difference compared to a typical minipump, it doesn't need its own pocket or anything.

I recently mounted a new GP5K S TR by hand on my Light Bicycle AR56 rim so don't feel the need to carry one anymore when out on that particular bike. In contrast, the TL version did require using my bead jack.

Tires tend to loosen up a bit with use so once I've ridden on my other setups a bit, I'm not that worried about remounting difficulty.
surak is offline  
Old 12-29-22, 08:41 PM
  #29  
LarryMelman
Senior Member
 
LarryMelman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 6 Posts
I sure wish I'd seen this thread before I asked Santa to bring me a set of GP5000's. I had gotten sick of Gatorskins wearing out prematurely due to the tread layers apparently separating. The GS's were always a struggle to get on my Reynolds rims. I put the GS's on an old pair of wheels just now, and I'm pretty sure it will be impossible to get them onto the Reynolds when the time comes. They are much much more difficult that the GS's ever were.
LarryMelman is offline  
Old 12-30-22, 12:59 AM
  #30  
zastolj
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by bblair
Must be the combo. I have American Classic wheels and have no problem with new Conti 4000 or 5000 tires.

But Michelin tires on Shimano wheels? Even the local shop struggled. They were on sale and I told the guy (Performance Bike, may they rest in peace) that I would only buy them if he put them on. So, off to lunch and 30 min later he is still sweating. Maybe that's why they went out of business.
There are issues with rim-tire interfaces that the industry has still not been able to completely solve! There are probably a combination of factors like rim design, different batches of product, quality control and tolerances for both tire and rim! I had a Vision T30 Team wheelset.. It was a nightmare to get any tire on the rim and I've had shop experience too for a few years. Some rims have no center valley to speak of for the tire bead to go during mounting and it makes life difficult. My DT Swiss rims take almost any tire with relative ease and I'm glad for that because I've had to deal with punctures a dozen times for those wheels.
zastolj is offline  
Old 12-30-22, 10:27 AM
  #31  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,226
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2901 Post(s)
Liked 2,125 Times in 1,305 Posts
I do have a tendency to clinch my teath/jaws during tough roadside repairs like remounting a tight tire. I find something to put between my teeth and bite down on it. Maybe take off a glove and bite down on it. Cracked teeth can be expensive!
seypat is offline  
Likes For seypat:
Old 12-30-22, 10:47 AM
  #32  
freeranger
Senior Member
 
freeranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2,468

Bikes: 06 Lemond Reno, 98 GT Timberline mtn.bike

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 384 Post(s)
Liked 619 Times in 388 Posts
Have a friend that bought a Kool Stop tire jack just so he could use some Continentals he had. Once it was time to change them out, he started using Michelin, because of the mounting headaches. No first-hand experience with some of the newer Continental offerings, but I'm sure I read on this site that Continental had designed some of the GPs so they wouldn't be such a headache to mount. Maybe someone can verify this and add which Contis now mount easier? Or add which rims are more difficult to mount tires onto.
freeranger is offline  
Old 12-30-22, 11:17 AM
  #33  
MinnMan
Senior Member
 
MinnMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,251

Bikes: 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3594 Post(s)
Liked 2,577 Times in 1,565 Posts
I'm not sure why Contis are so hard to mount - particularly GP5000s, which have such thin sidewalls. Generally, tires with thicker stiffer sidewalls are more difficult. i.e., GatorSkins. But the GP5000s, particularly when new, are a bear. '

Conti 4 Seasons aren't quite as bad in my experience.
MinnMan is offline  
Old 12-30-22, 11:59 AM
  #34  
79pmooney
Senior Member
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,828

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4140 Post(s)
Liked 3,122 Times in 2,028 Posts
Originally Posted by RB1-luvr
like some have said, I will not use tires that I struggle mounting in the garage. I've been using Vit(t)orrias since the early 2000s, they are just doable bare handed on all of my Mavic wheels.

I've never owned a tire jack like posted above, but I think I'll get one now for the tool box. Thanks for the suggestions.
+1 Vittoria Corsas and Panaracer Paselas (for city and off road) for me. Almost all of those tires I can mount with less than young hands that were never strong. Plastic levers work just fine for me when I need that little extra.

Yes, I get more flats from glass and debris with the Vittorias. A trade-off I will take in exchange for better road grip and fewer slides and crashes. (Different Corsas vary in road grip and glass attraction. The older Open Paves with the green tread stripes were great for grip and attracting glass (great at attracting glass not being "good" ). The various G+ are much better at the total (grip plus glass resistance) and vary like-wise as to the trade-off. Haven't spent much time on 2.0s as I bought a ton of G+s while they were the thing.

Paselas are not a performance tire. Just a great compromise, not stellar at anything but no bad habits. Wear well, have OK grip, don't get a lot of flats and when they do, the reason is seldom hard to find. When big enough to not pinch flat, much better off road than they look. And to this thread - a joy to mount. QC is excellent. No surprises. (Do make sure nothing scraps those sidewalls. They are very strong but not tough at all. Ignored brake shoes and carelessness around curbs will kill them fast.)
79pmooney is offline  
Old 12-30-22, 01:00 PM
  #35  
thin_concrete
Achtung!
 
thin_concrete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Posts: 1,613

Bikes: 60.1, Marvel

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 483 Post(s)
Liked 228 Times in 142 Posts
You can add me to the list of GP5000 detractors solely because of their difficulty in mounting. I was trying to put them on my Boyd Podiums and could not do it, even with the bead jack and levers. I later learned that Boyd issued a notice advising against their use on their fully carbon wheels. I tried heating the tires too and had no luck.

I canít find good reviews on any of the current Michelins, so I went to Schwalbe Pro One TLE. The bike is on a trainer for the winter, so itíll be a while before I can comment on them, but after having several sets of the GP4000 S2s, I had high hopes for the 5000s. Maybe Iíll look at them again in the future, but for now Iím staying away from Contis.
thin_concrete is offline  
Old 12-30-22, 01:06 PM
  #36  
thin_concrete
Achtung!
 
thin_concrete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Posts: 1,613

Bikes: 60.1, Marvel

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 483 Post(s)
Liked 228 Times in 142 Posts
Also, I bought this for my saddle bag. Itís a tight fit, but itís small enough to go in a jersey pocket if need be.

https://ezclincher.com

Itís every bit as effective as the full size Kool Stop Bead Jack, which I leave with my other bike parts in the basement and is incredibly useful.
thin_concrete is offline  
Likes For thin_concrete:
Old 12-30-22, 02:34 PM
  #37  
Jedneck
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Penns woods
Posts: 60

Bikes: Quintanna roo kilo & orbea onix

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 74 Times in 36 Posts
tubulars are my goto
Jedneck is offline  
Likes For Jedneck:
Old 12-30-22, 04:27 PM
  #38  
DangerousDanR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Fargo ND
Posts: 633

Bikes: Lynskey R350, Ritchey Breakaway, Ritchey Double Switchback, Lynskey Ridgeline, ICAN Fatbike

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 318 Post(s)
Liked 355 Times in 193 Posts
The 25mm GP5000 TL were hard to mount on both Rolf and Light Bicycle wheels. A Kool Stop tire jack and tire mounting lubricant from a local farm supply made it much easier, and the S TR version is easier, but still required levers.

The 32mm TL on Spinergy can be mounted hands only.

My experience is that I have had zero repairable tire failures with the GP5000s in any of their tubeless forms, so ease of roadside repair is not an issue.
DangerousDanR is offline  
Old 12-30-22, 05:31 PM
  #39  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,276

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4496 Post(s)
Liked 1,397 Times in 901 Posts
Originally Posted by zastolj
There are issues with rim-tire interfaces that the industry has still not been able to completely solve! There are probably a combination of factors like rim design, different batches of product, quality control and tolerances for both tire and rim! I had a Vision T30 Team wheelset.. It was a nightmare to get any tire on the rim and I've had shop experience too for a few years. Some rims have no center valley to speak of for the tire bead to go during mounting and it makes life difficult. My DT Swiss rims take almost any tire with relative ease and I'm glad for that because I've had to deal with punctures a dozen times for those wheels.
Here's a whole thread that just might offer some ideas for solving these issues
RIMS Too TIGHT
Sy Reene is offline  
Old 12-30-22, 09:59 PM
  #40  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,052
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6349 Post(s)
Liked 9,807 Times in 4,220 Posts
Originally Posted by Sy Reene
Here's a whole thread that just might offer some ideas for solving these issues
RIMS Too TIGHT
Are you trying to punish us?
Koyote is offline  
Old 01-02-23, 07:53 PM
  #41  
ryan7727
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Last year I fitted Vittoria Rubino Pro Control Graphene to a set of Fulcrum Racing 4 DBs, would have been completely impossible without the Kool Stop and even with it was a challenge
ryan7727 is offline  
Old 01-02-23, 08:56 PM
  #42  
momoman
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 228

Bikes: 2013 Wilier Gran Turismo, 1983 Trek 760, 80's Colnago Super, 90's De Rosa SLX, 2009 Waterford 22 Series Singlespeed, 85 Medici Pro Strada, De Rosa Alumino frameset, Dave Molten Fuso frameset, 70's beater Peugeot PX10

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked 173 Times in 79 Posts
I carry the VAR tire jack tool. Itís helped my friends with hard to mount tires when they get a flat. I chose to find tires that arenít difficult to mount on my rims and not risk the frustration of trying to mount a tight fitting tire on the road.

From my experience, the Conti GP5000 black walls are easier to mount than the Transparents. The Cream TDF GP5000 are the most difficult to mount. I tried all 3 models in the 25mm size on my Light Bicycle carbon rims. It was extremely difficult even with the Koolstop tire jack, with the cream wallís giving the feel that the rim or the tool was going to snap. I mounted 28mm black wall GP5000ís instead and didnít need any tools to mount the tires. I had to buy new brake calipers to clear the 28ís but love the ride quality with lower psiís.

edit:

Tried mounting 25mm GP5000 cream wall TDF on H Son Plus TB14 rims. I gave up.


I tried mounting 25mm cream wall TDF 5000ís on H Plus Son TB14 and gave up. I own 30 sets of wheels and have mounted a variety of tires over the years but this combo was near impossible. I mounted 25mm Michelin Lithion.2 tires I had laying around instead and they went on without much difficulty. Some tire/rim combos just donít work well.

Last edited by momoman; 01-02-23 at 09:20 PM.
momoman is offline  
Likes For momoman:
Old 01-03-23, 08:45 AM
  #43  
Bob Ross
your god hates me
 
Bob Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,445

Bikes: 2018 Cannondale CAADX 105 SE, 2016 Richard Sachs, 2010 Carl Strong, 2006 Cannondale Synapse

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1007 Post(s)
Liked 903 Times in 504 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse
how do you handle a roadside puncture when it's so hard to get the tire back on? ...[snip]...
A nice solution seems to be a tire bead jack, like this one from Kool Stop
My wife has had this issue in the past. She had a pair of handbuilt wheels with DT Swiss RR465 (I think?) rims that were ridiculously difficult to get clinchers on or off of. On group rides if she got a flat it would often turn into a He-Man Contest to see who could succeed and win the prize. Her solution when riding solo was to flag down the next passing cyclist and beg for assistance. Finally she switched to new wheels with HED Belgium rims and she finds them much easier to mount/unmount tires.

btw, we used to have one of those Kool Stop bead jacks in our home toolkit. I rarely needed to use it, but the last time I did it snapped in half!


Originally Posted by tempocyclist
Of course this is very rim-dependant.
^^^This. One of my bikes has a pair of 16-year-old Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels and no matter what brand or model of clincher I'm using getting them on or off those rims is trivial ...like, what's that expression? "Throwing a greased hotdog down a bowling alley"? Much easier than with any of my other wheelsets.
If I didn't hate Ksyriums so much I'd use them on all my bikes.
Bob Ross is offline  
Likes For Bob Ross:
Old 01-03-23, 09:14 AM
  #44  
DaveSSS 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 7,048

Bikes: Cinelli superstar disc, two Yoeleo R12

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 974 Post(s)
Liked 509 Times in 410 Posts
Not given enough emphasis is the fact that tires become easier to remove after being ridden awhile. I have used a bead jack a few times on new tubeless tires, but never in the old days with 23mm tubed tires on 15-17mm internal width rims. I've owned a lot of wheels in the last 35 years and never failed to mount Continental, Michelin or Pirelli tires. For many years, I only used a single quik-stik or my thumbs to mount tires. Keep as much of the bead sitting in the center channel, as possible.

​​​​​
DaveSSS is offline  
Old 01-04-23, 10:14 AM
  #45  
wheelreason
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 890
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 178 Post(s)
Liked 93 Times in 61 Posts
Patient: "Doctor, I can't get my tires mounted on the rim when I get a flat on a ride"
Doctor: "Get tires that aren't difficult to mount"
Patient: "Yes, but the TPI, and rolling resistance..."
Doctor:: "Get out of my office!"
wheelreason is offline  
Likes For wheelreason:
Old 01-04-23, 10:27 AM
  #46  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 28,971

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5040 Post(s)
Liked 3,248 Times in 2,139 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse
Anyone had experience with these tire bead jacks, or any other brands?
yes, the Kool Stop bead jack. it works very well on thin tires. I have 1 at home & 1 in my rack trunk

also, aside from regular plastic tire levers I have 2 of these, 1 at home & 1 in my rack trunk. it provides useful features & benefits & I use it with every tire change

Crankbrothers Speedier Lever

and because squeezing the bottom of the tire into the valley & keeping it there can be tricky I also carry 2 toe clip straps. so I squeeze the tire into the valley & use the straps to clamp it down in there, while I get the remaining bead over the rim

see post #6 here

I also carry knee pads in my car, w/ the spare tire. I'm too old & cranky to be a minimalist

Last edited by rumrunn6; 01-04-23 at 10:34 AM.
rumrunn6 is online now  
Likes For rumrunn6:
Old 01-10-23, 08:42 AM
  #47  
bblair
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 531

Bikes: Lynskey R230, Trek 5200, 1975 Raleigh Pro, 1973 Falcon ,Trek T50 Tandem and a 1968 Paramount in progress.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Liked 250 Times in 156 Posts
I don't know jack squat about tubeless, so no contribution there. But I offer this strictly anecdotal observation:

A few weeks ago, a member of our group had a front flat. Conti tires, Roval rims. Two guys came to her rescue and fought with that damn thing for the longest time. Tire jack, two-person struggle. Eventual success, but when she got a second flat (found some glass I think), there was some talk of walking, returning with a car, calling for a ride...whatever.

Admittedly, I am not a master mechanic, but changing that tire took me maybe 5 minutes. Same tires, same rims, same day. I can only concluded that the squeeze the tire into the valley technique is the variable. Heck, I have seen the mechanic at the shop fit tires in half the time I take.
bblair is offline  
Old 01-10-23, 09:28 AM
  #48  
DaveSSS 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 7,048

Bikes: Cinelli superstar disc, two Yoeleo R12

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 974 Post(s)
Liked 509 Times in 410 Posts
Squeezing the tire bead into the rim valley also becomes easier with a used tire.
DaveSSS is offline  
Old 01-10-23, 11:32 AM
  #49  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
Thread Starter
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 5,860

Bikes: Scott Addict R1

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2333 Post(s)
Liked 2,326 Times in 1,177 Posts
I tried the "squeeze bead into the valley" method on my last roadside repair (almost new GP5000).

It helped a little, but I still needed a tire lever for the last few inches.
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat

terrymorse is offline  
Old 01-10-23, 12:44 PM
  #50  
msu2001la
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,517
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1255 Post(s)
Liked 1,265 Times in 743 Posts
I get that some tires are very difficult to mount, but is mounting a tire without using a lever really a requirement for some people?

I've been riding road/MTB since the last century, and I have always carried two tire levers in my bag. Sure - I don't always need them, but most of the time when I'm changing a tire I use a lever just because it makes the job easier. It's not difficult to use a tire lever in a way that doesn't damage a tube.

I don't really understand the premise of this thread.
msu2001la is offline  
Likes For msu2001la:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.