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Immersive waxing / it should be more popular

Old 09-15-22, 02:38 AM
  #451  
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
Well, I just asked my girlfriend, and waxing is still popular.
How many miles is she getting? Performing well in the wet?
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Old 09-15-22, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
You anti-waxxers don't know what you are talking about. In the last 1200 miles, I have been lazy after putting a newly waxed chain on. I have applies liquid wax (Silca or Squirt) three times. Then, I removed the chain, turned the crockpot on, threw the chain in for an hour, removed and installed. I cannot imagine an easier (effective) chain regime, If you think wiping a chain down with a cloth helps, there is no helping you.
agreed. these are presumably aluminum flakes at the bottom of my first bath of mineral spirits. they are certainly metallic and i assume from the chain rings.


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Old 09-18-22, 08:20 PM
  #453  
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Shaking up chains with solvents is eye opening. I've done a few chains now for my household and friends.

I found that dry drip lube chains require multiple flushes until the solvent out clean, whereas even well used Squirt treated chains often run clear on the second flush already. This suggests that the 'gunk' with Squirt travels out of the chain mainly and does not carry contamination inside as much when compared to oil-based lubes. Wet and greasy lubes are a shocker.

But regardless, there are always all sorts of particles coming out, even from chains that have been frequently cleaned with chain cleaning and degreaser contraptions, suggesting those also don't flush out well and are more of an external rinse and brush.

People who wipe their chain to be shiny on the outside will definitely not get anywhere near resetting contamination. But we've seen in this thread that this is happily ignored because the bike still runs.
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Old 09-19-22, 10:29 AM
  #454  
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Originally Posted by yaw View Post
Shaking up chains with solvents is eye opening. I've done a few chains now for my household and friends.
Heck, yes.

Originally Posted by yaw View Post
I found that dry drip lube chains require multiple flushes until the solvent out clean, whereas even well used Squirt treated chains often run clear on the second flush already. This suggests that the 'gunk' with Squirt travels out of the chain mainly and does not carry contamination inside as much when compared to oil-based lubes. Wet and greasy lubes are a shocker.
From what I have read and from my (limited) personal experience, I understand that the main advantage of wax is that there is little to no penetration by road contamination into the interfaces between the outer link plates, inner link plates, rollers, and pins. These interfaces are where chain wear occur.

Originally Posted by yaw View Post
But regardless, there are always all sorts of particles coming out, even from chains that have been frequently cleaned with chain cleaning and degreaser contraptions, suggesting those also don't flush out well and are more of an external rinse and brush.
There is no flushing without immersion and agitation. If I have time, I leave my chain submerged in OMS in a jar on top of the laundry machine during a wash cycle.

Originally Posted by yaw View Post
People who wipe their chain to be shiny on the outside will definitely not get anywhere near resetting contamination. But we've seen in this thread that this is happily ignored because the bike still runs.
Some even claim that they can wipe their chains so clean that further wiping does not leave any stains on a rag. When I used drip lube I could never get to that level of cleanliness, even if I tried to wipe and lube right after a ride.
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Old 09-19-22, 01:40 PM
  #455  
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Originally Posted by yaw View Post
People who wipe their chain to be shiny on the outside will definitely not get anywhere near resetting contamination. But we've seen in this thread that this is happily ignored because the bike still runs.
Yes! You nailed it. I am fully aware that wiping off the outside of my chain will do nothing to clean the grit and grease that has worked its way between the plates and around the pins. And I happily ignore this fact because, well, you said it. My drivetrain works just fine, and chains last me thousands of miles. I will not challenge the claim that waxed chains stay cleaner. I'll even stop questioning whether waxing truly is quick and easy for some people. For me, it is more trouble than it's worth, given the fact that drip lube has always been "good enough" for me.
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Old 09-19-22, 01:42 PM
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Are we supposed to be waxing our cassette, chainrings and jockey wheels as well?
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Old 09-19-22, 01:55 PM
  #457  
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Originally Posted by yaw View Post
Shaking up chains with solvents is eye opening. I've done a few chains now for my household and friends.

I found that dry drip lube chains require multiple flushes until the solvent out clean, whereas even well used Squirt treated chains often run clear on the second flush already. This suggests that the 'gunk' with Squirt travels out of the chain mainly and does not carry contamination inside as much when compared to oil-based lubes. Wet and greasy lubes are a shocker.

But regardless, there are always all sorts of particles coming out, even from chains that have been frequently cleaned with chain cleaning and degreaser contraptions, suggesting those also don't flush out well and are more of an external rinse and brush.

People who wipe their chain to be shiny on the outside will definitely not get anywhere near resetting contamination. But we've seen in this thread that this is happily ignored because the bike still runs.
I expect that I fit this description. I use wet lube and accept that my chain is never "factory clean" but honestly I get 5000 miles before the chain wears to 0.5% (and that's when I replace them), and my cassettes last 15000 miles, chainrings last 40000 miles, so the "marginal gain" in this case is way too marginal IMO. Of course, YMMV.
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Old 09-19-22, 06:56 PM
  #458  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Are we supposed to be waxing our cassette, chainrings and jockey wheels as well?
They say there are no dumb questions so I'll just give you a dumb answer=ABSOLUTELY!!
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Old 09-20-22, 01:53 AM
  #459  
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Enquiring weenie minds want to know...
How much does all this wax weigh?
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Old 09-20-22, 09:10 AM
  #460  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Are we supposed to be waxing our cassette, chainrings and jockey wheels as well?
You should wax everything except the saddle and the bars.
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Old 09-20-22, 07:03 PM
  #461  
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I pour molten wax into the frame via the seat tube .... so my internally routed cables can get the lubrication they need.
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Old 09-20-22, 07:05 PM
  #462  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Are we supposed to be waxing our cassette, chainrings and jockey wheels as well?
I never have. I assume this is isn't a serious question, but I don't think there is a need to put lubricant of any type on those.
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Old 09-20-22, 08:14 PM
  #463  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I pour molten wax into the frame via the seat tube .... so my internally routed cables can get the lubrication they need.
It'll certainly keep them from rattling around.
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Old 09-21-22, 05:33 AM
  #464  
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Originally Posted by datlas View Post
I expect that I fit this description. I use wet lube and accept that my chain is never "factory clean" but honestly I get 5000 miles before the chain wears to 0.5% (and that's when I replace them), and my cassettes last 15000 miles, chainrings last 40000 miles, so the "marginal gain" in this case is way too marginal IMO. Of course, YMMV.
That’s because you’re not too fat for this sport like some of us.
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Old 09-21-22, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark View Post
I never have. I assume this is isn't a serious question, but I don't think there is a need to put lubricant of any type on those.
I use grease when I service my jockey wheels (on the internal bushing, not the cog teeth)
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Old 09-21-22, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by SpedFast View Post
I use grease when I service my jockey wheels (on the internal bushing, not the cog teeth)
I use DuPont Non-Stick Dry-Film Lubricant spray on the bearings of the RD pulleys:

Amazon.com : DuPont Non-Stick Dry-Film Lubricant Aerosol, 10 oz : Power Tool Lubricants : Sports & Outdoors
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Old 09-22-22, 08:23 AM
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TBH its kinda fun. It feels like "arts and crafts time". I'm too lazy to be as dedicated with the new and inter-wax cleaning as some people. Turn on the pot, dip, dry and go.

I think a lot of it is my obsessiveness with having things neat and tidy. I hate a mess. This extends to my household as well and causes my wife fair bits of pleasure and pain
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Old 09-22-22, 08:25 AM
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Having said that I did just try the whole molten speed wax mineral spirits/alcohol dip with a new chain, since I'm building up a new bike. Kinda wanted to go a little extra and have everything super spiffy. We'll see if this lasts, it was a bit more work. Before, I would simply soak a new chain overnight in ~50% degreaser concentrate.
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Old 09-22-22, 10:26 PM
  #469  
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went on first ride with wax

The short ride was on flat tarmac and so far, I'm impressed. Runs clean and quiet. Don't know if it is loader than my go to Finish Line Dry, but its close enough that I can't tell.

Shifting works great.

So far so good
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Old 09-22-22, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TMonk View Post
causes my wife fair bits of pleasure and pain
I read the reviews on some wax sold on Amazon (don't buy, too expensive). Many of them seemed to focus on that sort of "application."
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Old 09-23-22, 09:03 PM
  #471  
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Originally Posted by Symox View Post
The short ride was on flat tarmac and so far, I'm impressed. Runs clean and quiet. Don't know if it is loader than my go to Finish Line Dry, but its close enough that I can't tell.

Shifting works great.

So far so good
Nice - it is good to hear that household wax also produces respectable results. One of the downsides of industry specific wax is that the additives like to settle at the bottom so the wax has to be agitated to get all the friction modifiers into suspension, which would inevitably also agitate and stir up any contaminants that settle in the pot over time. With a plain wax you could really just have a little metal steam tray at the bottom of the pot and exclusively swish the chain in clean top layer wax, making a pot last forever. The Molten Speedwax, when you let it settle, is also clear but once stirred it turns grey/silvery from the various additives. How much better the paraffin base of the MSW/Silca stuff is vs. that Gulf wax you are using - no idea. Let us know how it goes with time and whether you see any need to get specific wax.

In terms of noise, it may get a bit louder once the initial extra wax has flaked off the chain but it's not the same as a dry chain noise, depends a bit on the bike too. My chains start out dead silent and then at some stage are fully broken in and chatter a bit at certain chain angles. If you want to silence the drivetrain more, then double dipping the chain (swish, hang up for a couple of minutes, then briefly swish again before final drying) gets a bit more wax on it which will keep it silent for far longer and deposit a bit on the rest of the drivetrain as a buffer over time. I heard that topping up with Silca Super Secret for example once the waxed chain has run in a bit will keep it quiet also, but I can't be bothered with a drip on regime and just swap my chains over frequently.

Whilst I experimented with generous coating, I now swish my chains with the wax quite hot and pull them out while the wax has low viscosity for minimal external build up as that is easier to handle/install and produces far less flakes. With that thin coating, the wax bond breaks easily by hand and it does not need to be back-pedalled to push out all sorts of wax plugs between the rollers. The downside is that the chain overall is a bit more naked and runs louder than when it is caked in wax, but there appears to be no difference in friction where it actually matters.

Enjoy the gunk free bike!
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Old 09-23-22, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by TMonk View Post
Having said that I did just try the whole molten speed wax mineral spirits/alcohol dip with a new chain, since I'm building up a new bike. Kinda wanted to go a little extra and have everything super spiffy. We'll see if this lasts, it was a bit more work. Before, I would simply soak a new chain overnight in ~50% degreaser concentrate.
Given the lifetime of a chain I think it's worth going to the effort of a few spirit shake ups and final alcohol rinse to get any residue off.

It's going to be a long time before I have to go down that path again but this is the method I would use next time:
- 10-20 minutes initial soak in mineral turps (aka white spirits in the US), then shake and pour out
- Then add new mineral turps and shake it up in a sealed container, for as many times as needed to make it run perfectly clear
- Flush it with boiling water to get most of the solvents off
- Final isopropyl alcohol shake up and then hang to evaporate completely (or finish it with a hair dryer, if impatient)

There's no mistaking the bone dry feeling after the alcohol flies away.

There was this one time when I asked a bike shop to fully strip a new chain and despite the ultrasonic and soaking it in degreaser (granted, bio degreaser, probably not the strongest stuff) it was still tacky to the touch on the outside, so when I shook it up in solvents at home it still got all cloudy. Better to be thorough and have it absolutely stripped so the wax can adhere and work to its full effect.
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Old 09-23-22, 10:27 PM
  #473  
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Originally Posted by yaw View Post
Whilst I experimented with generous coating, I now swish my chains with the wax quite hot and pull them out while the wax has low viscosity for minimal external build up as that is easier to handle/install and produces far less flakes. With that thin coating, the wax bond breaks easily by hand and it does not need to be back-pedalled to push out all sorts of wax plugs between the rollers. The downside is that the chain overall is a bit more naked and runs louder than when it is caked in wax, but there appears to be no difference in friction where it actually matters.

Enjoy the gunk free bike!
Yeah, I just used Gulf Wax meant for jarring that I got at the hardware store. As long as it is food grade I think the mineral oil content will be low and controlled and should work well for chains.

I pull the chain out when hot as well and wipe off the outer excess. I agree it is much less of a hassle than waiting for it to cool and poking the wax out from between the links. When the wax is fully liquid I think it still stays where it needs to due to the metal on metal surface tension.

Went on another ride today and am impressed. Might be a wee bit noisier but nothing bothersome

One thing I did when the wax was liquid was swish a magnet to collect all the steel shavings and pull it out. Was interesting how much came off and how much cleaner the wax became.
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Old 09-23-22, 11:10 PM
  #474  
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Originally Posted by Symox View Post
Yeah, I just used Gulf Wax meant for jarring that I got at the hardware store. As long as it is food grade I think the mineral oil content will be low and controlled and should work well for chains.

I pull the chain out when hot as well and wipe off the outer excess. I agree it is much less of a hassle than waiting for it to cool and poking the wax out from between the links. When the wax is fully liquid I think it still stays where it needs to due to the metal on metal surface tension.

Went on another ride today and am impressed. Might be a wee bit noisier but nothing bothersome

One thing I did when the wax was liquid was swish a magnet to collect all the steel shavings and pull it out. Was interesting how much came off and how much cleaner the wax became.
I've never heard of wiping the chain when pulling it out, when the wax is sufficiently hot (90C+) it would only leave a sliver of coating anyway. It sounds like it could perhaps be a worthwhile extra step for indoor use to minimise flakes, but I don't think it is worth the hassle for outdoor riding.

Interesting with the magnet, do you think these are mainly chainring shavings that get flushed out? I'll give that a go as I think the molybdenum in the MSW is not going to stick to the magnet, so that could be a great periodic step to remove shavings from the wax!
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Old 09-24-22, 09:54 AM
  #475  
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Originally Posted by Symox View Post
Yeah, I just used Gulf Wax meant for jarring that I got at the hardware store. As long as it is food grade I think the mineral oil content will be low and controlled and should work well for chains.

I pull the chain out when hot as well and wipe off the outer excess. I agree it is much less of a hassle than waiting for it to cool and poking the wax out from between the links. When the wax is fully liquid I think it still stays where it needs to due to the metal on metal surface tension.

Went on another ride today and am impressed. Might be a wee bit noisier but nothing bothersome

One thing I did when the wax was liquid was swish a magnet to collect all the steel shavings and pull it out. Was interesting how much came off and how much cleaner the wax became.
I'm going to give the magnet idea a go. Thanks for that.
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