Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Immersive waxing / it should be more popular

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Immersive waxing / it should be more popular

Old 10-01-23, 07:19 PM
  #1026  
Full Member
 
Ryan_M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Courtice, Ont.
Posts: 355

Bikes: Some

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked 119 Times in 69 Posts
Originally Posted by spelger
can't agree with it being a waste of time.
Agree with this. With the crap I've seen come out of new chains in a jar of mineral spirits, I'll never not clean 'em first. The wax may do the same thing, but I don't want that crud in there.

I used to do the pot on a burner thing but the crockpot require less time investment - depending how you look at it. The crock pot I just plug it in and walk away, takes seconds of my time. The burner needed baby sitting, so more time involved. Yes it will melt the wax faster and get the job done quicker but the crocks are so much easier. If you're in a hurry, pot on a stove is better.
Ryan_M is offline  
Old 10-02-23, 12:45 AM
  #1027  
Senior Member
 
elcruxio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Turku, Finland, Europe
Posts: 2,491

Bikes: 2011 Specialized crux comp, 2013 Specialized Rockhopper Pro

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 861 Post(s)
Liked 333 Times in 222 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan
Doubt it all you want. It is true tho. Melted wax will dissolve and mix with factory grease no problem. Even if you are not replacing 100.00% of the factory lube, so what? You get it next time around. Again, precleaning is a waste of time And money. Just dump it in, straight from the package, swish a bit and ur fine. While we are at it. Crockpots are a waste of time too. An ordinary sauce pan and a stove top will get you done in 1/10 the time. The excessive fear of fire and what not is really misplaced. No more dangerous than frying an egg.
I'd like to correct a few inaccuracies in this post.

The crock pot is a safety and quality control device. While it takes longer to warm up, it also keeps the temperature of the wax down to a safe level and keeps the wax from going bad. A crock pot ensures you don't get a fire. I'll get to that momentarily. Secondly the crock pot doesn't overheat the wax. Overheating wax will deteriorate it much quicker, eventually making it useless. If you're using a more expensive more advanced wax it does make sense not to let it deteriorate. The sauce pan does melt the wax quicker but that also easily leads to a situation where the surface layer of the wax is at the correct temperature while the bottom layer near the heating element is tens of degrees above the safe maximum of 100 celsius. Wax doesn't circulate all that fast when it's being heated so the bottom can get truly quite hot.

Secondly the statement that's using a saucepan in no more dangerous than frying an egg is patently false and a dangerous sentiment. Paraffin wax has an auto ignition temperature of 240 °C which is 200 °C less than with common cooking oils. Paraffin wax has a flash point of around 200 °C which you can reach surprisingly quickly if you're not constantly keeping watch partly because of the low heat capacity of paraffin wax. Also getting paraffin wax over 100 °C will cause it to produce fumes. While not toxic they can contribute to the ensuing inferno.
So a more apt comparison would then be that waxing with a saucepan is no more dangerous than deep frying with kerosene. Ok that's perhaps a bit excessive, but if you check the specs, it's not all that far off.

You can do it, but to be safe you just need to use a thermometer, keep watch and to not crank the stove to eleven.

As an additional point, if you're using hot water to clean a chain prior to rewaxing it, having a saucepan of wax that has any part of it above 100 °C can be an explosive experience.
elcruxio is offline  
Likes For elcruxio:
Old 10-02-23, 01:49 PM
  #1028  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,914

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3925 Post(s)
Liked 7,232 Times in 2,926 Posts
When the advocates of waxing can't agree on some of the basic steps, why is it a surprise that waxing isn't more popular?
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 10-02-23, 02:10 PM
  #1029  
Just Pedaling
 
SpedFast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: US West Coast
Posts: 991

Bikes: YEP!

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 325 Post(s)
Liked 512 Times in 339 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
When the advocates of waxing can't agree on some of the basic steps, why is it a surprise that waxing isn't more popular?
Yes, there is one in every crowd, huh?
SpedFast is offline  
Old 10-02-23, 02:14 PM
  #1030  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,914

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3925 Post(s)
Liked 7,232 Times in 2,926 Posts
Originally Posted by SpedFast
Yes, there is one in every crowd, huh?
This thread was started on the premise that waxing should be more popular. Disagreement about how it should be done is simply one reason why it isn't more popular.
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 10-02-23, 03:03 PM
  #1031  
Not actually Tmonk
 
TMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 14,050

Bikes: road, track, mtb

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2581 Post(s)
Liked 3,070 Times in 1,623 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Disagreement about how it should be done is simply one reason why it isn't more popular.
Can't you say the same thing about wet lubes? Waxing is inherently more complicated and laborious per application/per instance, so it seems natural that there would be more disagreement in methodology. I think that's the reason why it isn't more popular, is b/c its more complicated.

There's also a higher barrier to entry and a bit of a learning curve, which are additional reasons why it isn't more popular. Many chose to "knock before they try it" for this reason. Not that anyone "should" try it, I can just see how its easy to hate on.

In the bigger picture, it will remain a niche choice.
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
TMonk is online now  
Old 10-02-23, 05:39 PM
  #1032  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,914

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3925 Post(s)
Liked 7,232 Times in 2,926 Posts
Originally Posted by TMonk
Can't you say the same thing about wet lubes?
I don't think so. Most people that wet lube just drown their chain in lube and don't think twice about it.
In the bigger picture, it will remain a niche choice.
Time will tell.
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 10-02-23, 06:04 PM
  #1033  
Not actually Tmonk
 
TMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 14,050

Bikes: road, track, mtb

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2581 Post(s)
Liked 3,070 Times in 1,623 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
I don't think so. Most people that wet lube just drown their chain in lube and don't think twice about it.

Time will tell.
I used to individual apply a drop to each link, spin the cranks a few times, then wipe off excess with a rag. I would also clean it somewhat frequently, with a dry rag, then a rag soaked with alcohol. I hate a mess.

Now that I think of it, maybe I meant to join the waxing caste.
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
TMonk is online now  
Likes For TMonk:
Old 10-02-23, 06:07 PM
  #1034  
Not actually Tmonk
 
TMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 14,050

Bikes: road, track, mtb

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2581 Post(s)
Liked 3,070 Times in 1,623 Posts
I think waxing is a great fit for neurotic / OCD types, clean / neat freak tyoes and "tinkerers". So it could be a good fit for a lot of riders who haven't learned about it yet.
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
TMonk is online now  
Old 10-02-23, 06:48 PM
  #1035  
Just Pedaling
 
SpedFast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: US West Coast
Posts: 991

Bikes: YEP!

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 325 Post(s)
Liked 512 Times in 339 Posts
Originally Posted by TMonk
I think waxing is a great fit for neurotic / OCD types, clean / neat freak tyoes and "tinkerers". So it could be a good fit for a lot of riders who haven't learned about it yet.
I fall into the tinkerer class. When I run out of other things to do on my bikes, I wax the chains. It's relaxing and leaves me with a feeling of accomplishment. It also means I won't have to work on the drive train components for a longer time, so maybe I should quit waxing. All that fun I'm missing.
SpedFast is offline  
Likes For SpedFast:
Old 10-02-23, 06:50 PM
  #1036  
Just Pedaling
 
SpedFast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: US West Coast
Posts: 991

Bikes: YEP!

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 325 Post(s)
Liked 512 Times in 339 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
This thread was started on the premise that waxing should be more popular. Disagreement about how it should be done is simply one reason why it isn't more popular.
I wasn't referring to you as the 'one', I was referring to those that disagree about how it should be done.
SpedFast is offline  
Old 10-02-23, 06:52 PM
  #1037  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,914

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3925 Post(s)
Liked 7,232 Times in 2,926 Posts
Originally Posted by SpedFast
I wasn't referring to you as the 'one', I was referring to those that disagree about how it should be done.
Got it.
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 10-02-23, 06:58 PM
  #1038  
Full Member
 
Ryan_M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Courtice, Ont.
Posts: 355

Bikes: Some

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked 119 Times in 69 Posts
Originally Posted by TMonk
Can't you say the same thing about wet lubes? Waxing is inherently more complicated and laborious per application/per instance, so it seems natural that there would be more disagreement in methodology. I think that's the reason why it isn't more popular, is b/c its more complicated.
I think a big hurdle here is people are thinking of this too black and white. There's varying levels of what people think cleaning a drivetrain is, how much time they're willing to invest to get to their acceptable level of cleanliness, and how much money they're willing to pay to get those results. I've seen it mentioned many times in this thread that waxing is too involved vs wet lube, all they do is wipe the chain off with a rag and drip some lube on it - 5 minute process. Ok sure but waxers can do the same with drip wax, but that in no way constitutes cleaning a chain. For the wet lubers that's just freshening up the grinding paste.

For me (and I know this is subjective) cleaning a drive train is removing all grime/grit and cleaning it to the point as if it just came out of the package. When I used wet lube a full clean involved removing the chain, cassette, jockey wheels, and chain rings and put them in the ultra sonic. Its a hobby level ultra sonic so the chain would have to go back in 2 more times usually. That gave me time to wipe down whats left of a film on the other parts and reassemble. Now that I wax I simply remove the chain, pour boiling water over it to get the surface junk off and drop it in the crock pot. A stiff brush is enough to knock off any blobs on the cassette, rings and RD. It's a quick process and doesn't require any disassembly. Yank the chain, let it drip and cool, then put it back on. The latter process is so much less tedious and gets me a better level of cleanliness. Win - win. There is a small but not insignificant start up cost to waxing but it will pay off on the back end when chains last longer and I dont have to buy so much degreaser for the ultra sonic.

This is why I wax. I get a better level of cleanliness that I'm happy with for significantly less time involved. Others have different priorities and would rather replace chains more often then spend the time cleaning. It's not any lesser of an opinion, just different choices based on different priorities.

Last edited by Ryan_M; 10-02-23 at 07:23 PM.
Ryan_M is offline  
Likes For Ryan_M:
Old 10-02-23, 07:03 PM
  #1039  
Senior Member
 
spelger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: reno, nv
Posts: 2,296

Bikes: yes, i have one

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1134 Post(s)
Liked 1,179 Times in 686 Posts
Originally Posted by Ryan_M
I think a big hurdle here is people are thinking of this too black and white. There's varying levels of what people think cleaning a drivetrain is, how much time their willing to invest to get to their acceptable level of cleanliness...
that's why i wax, the drive train really doesn't require that much cleaning. i also didn't like the mess of cleaning the drive train when i was an oiler, what a mess.
spelger is offline  
Likes For spelger:
Old 10-02-23, 07:09 PM
  #1040  
Full Member
 
Ryan_M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Courtice, Ont.
Posts: 355

Bikes: Some

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked 119 Times in 69 Posts
Originally Posted by spelger
that's why i wax, the drive train really doesn't require that much cleaning. i also didn't like the mess of cleaning the drive train when i was an oiler, what a mess.
It was a big mess for sure. I'd go through about half a litre of degreaser an a couple rags. I understand though that I am more OCD than the majority of bike owners and I like to work on my bikes a lot, even if they dont need it. Its a joy being able to putter around on it and not have grimy hands.
Ryan_M is offline  
Likes For Ryan_M:
Old 10-03-23, 02:49 AM
  #1041  
yaw
should be more popular
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Wax Town
Posts: 259

Bikes: 22 Emonda

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked 167 Times in 84 Posts
We will get you tomato coupe

If not in this life, in the next.
yaw is offline  
Old 10-03-23, 03:29 AM
  #1042  
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,231
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1335 Post(s)
Liked 318 Times in 216 Posts
Originally Posted by yaw
Nah. Permanently set up crockpots are ideal for this, just pressing a couple buttons and having it heat up to the right temperature and hold absolutely stable, for however long, without messing around in the kitchen or handling hot sauce pans, minding cooling sauce pans, storing stuff, really could not be any easier.

And even if skipping the solvent rounds to strip factory grease is possible without purpose defeating detriment to the wax base, I will gladly do that step once a leap year when I process a new chain into the rotation and keep the wax extra pristine. Especially for more expensive chain specific waxes where a lot of the money goes into the right consistency, I won't have that soften out from the factory grease of multiple chains over time, now that I know that wax in a crockpot can be in service for years.



Yeah that is nonsense. The chain needs to be in the wax long enough to heat up to wax temperature so agitation effectively flushes out what was inside the chain. Having it sit there for longer is useless, rather agitate it a couple more times than add soaking time. But I certainly forget my chains in there for a while because I pop them on the hard wax as I turn on the pot and may get distracted, part of the convenience of the crockpot.
I can tell from experience factory lube dissolved in whatever chain wax makes diddly difference. Factory grease is similar to wax in the first place and only a small amount is applied. Arguing otherwise is, imo, made up fear mongering. If anything the solvents you put in your chain is more detrimental to your wax unless rigorously flushed from the chain and the chain dried completely before waxing. Again, its just additional steps, that doesn't help, cost money and creates waste that needs handling and disposal. (you should not dispose of degreaser in the sink even if it says biodegradable or similar greenwash BS on the bottle. Its not once contaminated with chain lube)
Racing Dan is offline  
Old 10-03-23, 04:34 AM
  #1043  
yaw
should be more popular
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Wax Town
Posts: 259

Bikes: 22 Emonda

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked 167 Times in 84 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan
I can tell from experience factory lube dissolved in whatever chain wax makes diddly difference. Factory grease is similar to wax in the first place and only a small amount is applied. Arguing otherwise is, imo, made up fear mongering. If anything the solvents you put in your chain is more detrimental to your wax unless rigorously flushed from the chain and the chain dried completely before waxing. Again, its just additional steps, that doesn't help, cost money and creates waste that needs handling and disposal. (you should not dispose of degreaser in the sink even if it says biodegradable or similar greenwash BS on the bottle. Its not once contaminated with chain lube)
I've done that whole process once, properly, and can't be bothered, so I just purchased pre-waxed chains since, an option worth mentioning.

Next thing I will try when I need a new chain is let its factory juices dissolve in wax when I am ready to replace the wax anyway.

I'll report on it then. Give me several years.
yaw is offline  
Old 10-03-23, 04:48 AM
  #1044  
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,231
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1335 Post(s)
Liked 318 Times in 216 Posts
Do you really believe pre waxed chains are subjected to the convoluted cleaning schemes prescribed on the forums and by the companys selling pre waxed chains? ;-) I'm betting you a dollar they are not, but then again you wouldn't ever notice.
Racing Dan is offline  
Old 10-03-23, 04:56 AM
  #1045  
yaw
should be more popular
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Wax Town
Posts: 259

Bikes: 22 Emonda

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked 167 Times in 84 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan
Do you really believe pre waxed chains are subjected to the convoluted cleaning schemes prescribed on the forums and by the companys selling pre waxed chains? ;-) I'm betting you a dollar they are not, but then again you wouldn't ever notice.
I bought them from the zero friction cycling guy who's pedantic enough, and one of the early waxing advocates that put up the very solvent instructions forum people often swear by, and I've seen the setup used for prepping (which includes solvent recycling which is good), the chains of course look and work perfectly fine but I am with you that it would be hard to tell where it counts. So yes I am pretty happy with it, but I of course can't speak for any other outfits.

I am really happy if I can just chuck the next round of new chains into a bit of old wax and get a perfect prep out of it. Just another way waxing is getting easier after the very initial setup.
yaw is offline  
Likes For yaw:
Old 10-03-23, 08:31 AM
  #1046  
Not actually Tmonk
 
TMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 14,050

Bikes: road, track, mtb

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2581 Post(s)
Liked 3,070 Times in 1,623 Posts
I'm intrigued by the idea of not cleaning off the factory grease to make it even easier. I also don't clean the drivetrain outside of bi-annual whole bike cleans.
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
TMonk is online now  
Old 10-03-23, 11:46 AM
  #1047  
Senior Member
 
eduskator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 2,093

Bikes: SL8 Pro, TCR beater

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 975 Post(s)
Liked 575 Times in 434 Posts
Originally Posted by Ryan_M
It was a big mess for sure. I'd go through about half a litre of degreaser an a couple rags. I understand though that I am more OCD than the majority of bike owners and I like to work on my bikes a lot, even if they dont need it. Its a joy being able to putter around on it and not have grimy hands.
+1. And it looks much more cleaner too. People riding black-ish drivetrains make my tummy feel sick

Even when I was using regular lube, my drivetrain looked new all the time. I was wiping my chain with a rag after every ride. Quick and effective. Plus, a clean bike is a fast bike.
eduskator is offline  
Old 10-03-23, 06:18 PM
  #1048  
yaw
should be more popular
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Wax Town
Posts: 259

Bikes: 22 Emonda

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked 167 Times in 84 Posts
Originally Posted by eduskator
People riding black-ish drivetrains make my tummy feel sick
Some of my chains are black coated YBN and someone once pointed out my chain needed a clean.
Converted another one on the spot after running my hand over it and doing my wax worship song and dance.
yaw is offline  
Old 10-04-23, 07:34 AM
  #1049  
Senior Member
 
eduskator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 2,093

Bikes: SL8 Pro, TCR beater

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 975 Post(s)
Liked 575 Times in 434 Posts
Love this dance!
eduskator is offline  
Likes For eduskator:
Old 10-04-23, 04:36 PM
  #1050  
Senior Member
 
eduskator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 2,093

Bikes: SL8 Pro, TCR beater

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 975 Post(s)
Liked 575 Times in 434 Posts
Originally Posted by TMonk
I'm intrigued by the idea of not cleaning off the factory grease to make it even easier. I also don't clean the drivetrain outside of bi-annual whole bike cleans.
On a similar note, I haven't cleaned or waxed my new chain yet and I put 350kms (218mi) on the new bike so far. It's still quiet as a mouse

I was not expecting that. I'll ride it as long as I can with the factory lube/grease/whatever.
eduskator is offline  
Likes For eduskator:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.