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Immersive waxing / it should be more popular

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Immersive waxing / it should be more popular

Old 03-13-24, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by eduskator
Factory lube will contaminate it, so does road debris, dirt, grime, etc. The former is avoidable; the latter is not.



Soaking a chain in fuel overnight and rinsing it after is not really ''more work''. I rinse and pre-wash my car before washing it - same principle apply here.
I don't bother avoiding something I don't care about - slightly contaminated wax is still 99.9% wax.

We disagree what work is. Doing stuff that takes your time and effort is work - including the effort it takes to get rid of the dirty solvent.
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Old 03-13-24, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan
Waxing a new chain in a sauce pan with a pound of wax isnt doing anything detrimantal and its so much less work and much faster than a crock pot or the silly little 100w silca pot. But yeah I get where you are coming from. You bough into the hype that you need expensive wax, that you don want to ruin, and that the chain MUST be 100.000% clean before it can be waxed. Thus you end up messing with "bike specific" chain degreasers, toxic solvents, ultrasonic cleaning machines, strip chips, crock pots, little waxing machines etc. All a huge faff and expense that you tirelessly try to explain away. I was merely pointing out there is a much easier route. It may not be 100.000% as perfect but it will get you "95%" of the way with notably less faff and expense. - However, ppl refuse to believe it. Only perceived perfection will do, leading to you to dream up random, complicated procedures that only the most anal will keep up in the long run.

IF i cared to clean a chain id do it in an other "dirty" sauce pan with cheap wax. Hot wax will dissolve factory grease or melt away old wax lube. Eliminating any other cleaning product and eliminating getting the chain wet, if hot water is you preferred cleaning method.
What in fact is your alternative?

If it's using cheap candle paraffin, well sure, that'll work. I did it for a while. But if getting something better allows me to get one more week or 100km more out of a waxing, I'm going to spend the money to get something better. Less effort is still less effort even if I do have a pretty neat system in place.

In terms of friction and efficiency, there isn't that big of a difference between candle wax and the best of the best, but there still is a difference, if you care for such a thing. I don't. I care about longevity.

Mind you, the wax I'm using now is a cycling specific special wax (the call it paraffin, but I'm doubtful, since the melting point is around 90 celsius). So far it's best I've tried and holds on really well against water and salt contamination.
It cost me 30 euros for a kilo, so that's around 30 bucks for two pounds. I wouldn't call it excessive.
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Old 03-13-24, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
What in fact is your alternative?

If it's using cheap candle paraffin, well sure, that'll work. I did it for a while. But if getting something better allows me to get one more week or 100km more out of a waxing, I'm going to spend the money to get something better. Less effort is still less effort even if I do have a pretty neat system in place.

In terms of friction and efficiency, there isn't that big of a difference between candle wax and the best of the best, but there still is a difference, if you care for such a thing. I don't. I care about longevity.

Mind you, the wax I'm using now is a cycling specific special wax (the call it paraffin, but I'm doubtful, since the melting point is around 90 celsius). So far it's best I've tried and holds on really well against water and salt contamination.
It cost me 30 euros for a kilo, so that's around 30 bucks for two pounds. I wouldn't call it excessive.
Have you tried the famous 10-1 ratio of paraffin wax & PTFE powder? A batch will cost you under 5$ and it's said to be as effective as the big brand cycling wax companies...

Check out OZ Cycle's videos about it on YouTube. He's knowledgeable and trustable.
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Old 03-13-24, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
What in fact is your alternative?


If it's using cheap candle paraffin, well sure, that'll work. I did it for a while. But if getting something better allows me to get one more week or 100km more out of a waxing, I'm going to spend the money to get something better. Less effort is still less effort even if I do have a pretty neat system in place.


In terms of friction and efficiency, there isn't that big of a difference between candle wax and the best of the best, but there still is a difference, if you care for such a thing. I don't. I care about longevity.


Mind you, the wax I'm using now is a cycling specific special wax (the call it paraffin, but I'm doubtful, since the melting point is around 90 celsius). So far it's best I've tried and holds on really well against water and salt contamination.

It cost me 30 euros for a kilo, so that's around 30 bucks for two pounds. I wouldn't call it excessive.

Whats my alternative? To what?


I believe I made my point clearly, several times by now.


Get a new chain and wax it, in a sauce pan, straight form the package with no prep, in what ever wax you like. Should take only a few minutes, including waiting for the wax to melt. I trust you are not a child and wont set your house on fire or stink it up with wax smoke.


Rewax it i the same wax without cleaning it in advance. - Unless its a very soft wax it will retain only little old wax and grit. I believe it makes no or very little difference.


If you insist not getting dirt in your wax id get an other sauce pan with cheap paraffin wax or similar and swish/wash the chain in there. It will get off old lube and the tiny amount of "different" wax isn't going to do any harm in the "main" wax. -Why? Because, no wet chain, no chemicals to dispose of and no chemicals that need flushing from the chain. Just a block of wax that can be discarded as normal house hold waste.
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Old 03-13-24, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan
Whats my alternative? To what?


I believe I made my point clearly, several times by now.


Get a new chain and wax it, in a sauce pan, straight form the package with no prep, in what ever wax you like. Should take only a few minutes, including waiting for the wax to melt. I trust you are not a child and wont set your house on fire or stink it up with wax smoke.


Rewax it i the same wax without cleaning it in advance. - Unless its a very soft wax it will retain only little old wax and grit. I believe it makes no or very little difference.


If you insist not getting dirt in your wax id get an other sauce pan with cheap paraffin wax or similar and swish/wash the chain in there. It will get off old lube and the tiny amount of "different" wax isn't going to do any harm in the "main" wax. -Why? Because, no wet chain, no chemicals to dispose of and no chemicals that need flushing from the chain. Just a block of wax that can be discarded as normal house hold waste.
It sounds like he has discovered a (mystery) product that lasts longer than regular wax, and since it costs a bit more he doesn't want to contaminate it.
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Old 03-13-24, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan
Whats my alternative? To what?


I believe I made my point clearly, several times by now.


Get a new chain and wax it, in a sauce pan, straight form the package with no prep, in what ever wax you like. Should take only a few minutes, including waiting for the wax to melt. I trust you are not a child and wont set your house on fire or stink it up with wax smoke.


Rewax it i the same wax without cleaning it in advance. - Unless its a very soft wax it will retain only little old wax and grit. I believe it makes no or very little difference.


If you insist not getting dirt in your wax id get an other sauce pan with cheap paraffin wax or similar and swish/wash the chain in there. It will get off old lube and the tiny amount of "different" wax isn't going to do any harm in the "main" wax. -Why? Because, no wet chain, no chemicals to dispose of and no chemicals that need flushing from the chain. Just a block of wax that can be discarded as normal house hold waste.
Aside from not prepping the chain before the first waxing, isn't that pretty much the basic recommended procedure that's touted pretty much everywhere? Or are you too deep into your own strawman about Silca slow cookers?

Do you even realize why people prefer slow cooker to a sauce pan? It's because with a sauce pan you need to watch over the wax lest it gets too hot. With a slow cooker you can leave the wax to melt and go off to do something else, like drink a beer or what have you.
A lot of people who got into waxing started out with a sauce pan. And decided afterwards that it'd be nice that you don't have to watch over the wax as it melts. But I suppose some people want to be in control and plop the chain in as soon as the wax has melted.

As to wanting the wax to stay clean. It depends on the conditions one rides in. But I don't get why one would use a sacrificial cleaning wax when boiling water does the same thing but is a lot more care free. I prefer not to contaminate my main wax with salt so I boil my chains before I wax them.
Boiling water is really easy. Doesn't require a slow cooker. Water isn't flammable nor are water vapors harmful. I can also dump the water afterwards. And water doesn't contaminate wax.
But wouldn't you know it, I actually tried not doing any cleaning via sacrificial waxing or boiling before waxing my chains. But unfortunately during the winter the wax I was using turned so gray that I just didn't want to use it anymore. Also the bottom of the puck had a solid 1cm layer of gunky wax which I tried scraping off but just gave up. No such issues after I started boiling my chains.
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Old 03-13-24, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
It sounds like he has discovered a (mystery) product that lasts longer than regular wax, and since it costs a bit more he doesn't want to contaminate it.
Is this your thing now? You have the ability to respond directly to someone but choose to make snide comments about them instead?

Considering your other threads, I'm not surprised...
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Old 03-13-24, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
Firstly often in these waxing topics there are people who feel the need to disparage the effort required for waxing and give "advice" about how it's much simpler just to apply one drop of lube per roller and wipe clean. Considering how large of an undertaking cleaning an oiled dirty chain is, I doubt many do it all that often. So the method of applying lube on a not completely sterile chain is pretty common.
That's it in a nutshell. Most cyclists don't care if their chain isn't squeaky clean so, for them, applying lube is easier than waxing.
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Old 03-13-24, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
That's it in a nutshell. Most cyclists don't care if their chain isn't squeaky clean so, for them, applying lube is easier than waxing.
Indeed. 90% of the cyclists I see when I ride have black chains and black cassettes. Funny thing is, half of them probably don't know that the real color is silver. Law of least effort?
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Old 03-13-24, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by eduskator
Indeed. 90% of the cyclists I see when I ride have black chains and black cassettes. Funny thing is, half of them probably don't know that the real color is silver. Law of least effort?
Absolutely.
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Old 03-13-24, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
Is this your thing now? You have the ability to respond directly to someone but choose to make snide comments about them instead?

Considering your other threads, I'm not surprised...
There was nothing snide in my response. Please reread.

Would you care to say what product you're using? Sounds good, being longer lasting yet not as pricey as most branded wax.
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Old 03-13-24, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
Aside from not prepping the chain before the first waxing, isn't that pretty much the basic recommended procedure that's touted pretty much everywhere? Or are you too deep into your own strawman about Silca slow cookers?

Do you even realize why people prefer slow cooker to a sauce pan? It's because with a sauce pan you need to watch over the wax lest it gets too hot. With a slow cooker you can leave the wax to melt and go off to do something else, like drink a beer or what have you.
A lot of people who got into waxing started out with a sauce pan. And decided afterwards that it'd be nice that you don't have to watch over the wax as it melts. But I suppose some people want to be in control and plop the chain in as soon as the wax has melted.

As to wanting the wax to stay clean. It depends on the conditions one rides in. But I don't get why one would use a sacrificial cleaning wax when boiling water does the same thing but is a lot more care free. I prefer not to contaminate my main wax with salt so I boil my chains before I wax them.
Boiling water is really easy. Doesn't require a slow cooker. Water isn't flammable nor are water vapors harmful. I can also dump the water afterwards. And water doesn't contaminate wax.
But wouldn't you know it, I actually tried not doing any cleaning via sacrificial waxing or boiling before waxing my chains. But unfortunately during the winter the wax I was using turned so gray that I just didn't want to use it anymore. Also the bottom of the puck had a solid 1cm layer of gunky wax which I tried scraping off but just gave up. No such issues after I started boiling my chains.
If you use a pan with the minimum wax to cover the chain, it melts in 5 minutes on low. If you start with the chain under the wax everything is up to temp when the wax is all liquid and then you take it off. It never gets close to too hot and you look at bikeforums for a few minutes while you wait.

Double the wax, double the time.
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Old 03-13-24, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
There was nothing snide in my response. Please reread.

Would you care to say what product you're using? Sounds good, being longer lasting yet not as pricey as most branded wax.
It's a local producer who makes mainly ski wax. I'm fairly certain he doesn't sell outside Finland. Shame really, because the wax really is quite good.

Originally Posted by Kontact
If you use a pan with the minimum wax to cover the chain, it melts in 5 minutes on low. If you start with the chain under the wax everything is up to temp when the wax is all liquid and then you take it off. It never gets close to too hot and you look at bikeforums for a few minutes while you wait.

Double the wax, double the time.
I have eight bikes (well, nine, kinda) to maintain. It just makes more sense for me to melt a big batch in a pot and wax a lot of chains at a time. Swapping a chain takes much less than waxing one chain and I can do the big batch waxing when it fits my schedule.

I don't use the slow cooker anymore, because it actually doesn't work with a wax that has a melting point above 90 celsius.
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Old 03-13-24, 02:41 PM
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just gonna chime in here and comment again that there is a "middle way" when it comes to waxing - but one has to be OK with a little bit of grit on their bike and in the crock pot. doesn't bother me and I still don't hesitate to handle my drivetrain with bare hands. my methods involve zero inter-wax treatment, just the initial de-greasing of the factory wax. skimming through the thread, it seems like that's not even necessary either, which has me intrigued.
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Old 03-13-24, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
I don't use the slow cooker anymore, because it actually doesn't work with a wax that has a melting point above 90 celsius.
1. Is the wax you use a paraffin wax? The max melting point that I have seen quoted for paraffin wax is 165 *F or just under 75 *C. If it is a ski wax, why does it need to have such a high melting point?
2. Even my $10 2 Qt. Crock-Pot can reach the simmer point (209 *F or 98 *C) under both low and high temperature settings.

Slow Cooker Cooking Tips | Crockpot® (crock-pot.com)
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Old 03-13-24, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
That's it in a nutshell. Most cyclists don't care if their chain isn't squeaky clean so, for them, applying lube is easier than waxing.
Never had issues just once a month cleaning with 1 step. I don't see the big deal. Simple green on the cassette and chainring. It takes like 10 minutes.
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Old 03-13-24, 09:23 PM
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I switched to wax a while ago for all my road/gravel/mtb bikes, absolutely love it!. Started with Candle Wax, switched to Silca after a while. A thought occurred to me - I have access to bunch of honey combs, can I use bees wax for my chains? I have PTFE, what is unclear to me whether bees wax is as good as paraffin wax for my chains. Thoughts?

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Old 03-13-24, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by vtje
I switched to wax a while ago for all my road/gravel/mtb bikes, absolutely love it!. Started with Candle Wax, switched to Silca after a while. A thought occurred to me - I have access to bunch of bee combs, can I use bees wax for my chains? I have PTFE, what is unclear to me whether bees wax is as good as paraffin wax for my chains. Thoughts?
If you've melted out the honey, but I'd be worried about swarms.
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Old 03-13-24, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SpedFast
If you've melted out the honey, but I'd be worried about swarms.
Why have the sound of angry bees*, when you can have actual angry bees?

* Chris King hub
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Old 03-14-24, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SpedFast
If you've melted out the honey, but I'd be worried about swarms.
Or coming out of the coffee shop to find your bike being investigated by a bear.
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Old 03-15-24, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by vtje
I switched to wax a while ago for all my road/gravel/mtb bikes, absolutely love it!. Started with Candle Wax, switched to Silca after a while. A thought occurred to me - I have access to bunch of honey combs, can I use bees wax for my chains? I have PTFE, what is unclear to me whether bees wax is as good as paraffin wax for my chains. Thoughts?
Chances are that bees wax is the same kind of lubricant as paraffin wax: Zero. Same with ear wax.
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Old 03-15-24, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by vtje
I switched to wax a while ago for all my road/gravel/mtb bikes, absolutely love it!. Started with Candle Wax, switched to Silca after a while. A thought occurred to me - I have access to bunch of honey combs, can I use bees wax for my chains? I have PTFE, what is unclear to me whether bees wax is as good as paraffin wax for my chains. Thoughts?
Probably not. Beeswax is quite soft but does have decent tensile strength. It's also somewhat tacky.

Chain waxes need to be hard and slippery. Otherwise efficiency goes out the window and the chain won't be protected as the soft wax is just cleared away by the chain moving. A hard wax leaves a slippery film on metal which is surprisingly hard to wear off.
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Old 03-15-24, 10:11 AM
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Switched back to wet lube on my MTB. I like to ride in riparian and/or mountain ecosystems, so a wet or muddy drivetrain happened often enough to piss me off and ruin the wax job.

Road, TT, track, trainer bikes - still waxing
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Old 03-15-24, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TMonk
Switched back to wet lube on my MTB. I like to ride in riparian and/or mountain ecosystems, so a wet or muddy drivetrain happened often enough to piss me off and ruin the wax job.

Road, TT, track, trainer bikes - still waxing
I just put wax on my MTB chain. Usually the most I’ll deal with the wet is a stream crossing, so we will see how it goes.
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Old 03-16-24, 01:45 AM
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A friend asked a question yesterday that I hadn’t considered. Is it possible, in direct sunlight, for the wax to get hot enough to soften?
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