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Immersive waxing / it should be more popular

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Immersive waxing / it should be more popular

Old 04-02-24, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by KJ43
The point is we are not talking about oil we are talking about immersive waxing.

If you really read through the links I posted you would see that their testing came away with two main points when it comes to candle wax versus the Silca, Mspeedwax, or other blends.

The candle wax is inferior as a lubricant to the "luxury" wax blends. It is also more expensive over 10,000 km at least compared to the Silca Hot Melt and a couple other blends.

Not sure how a 40 dollar bag of wax that will probably last me for the year if not longer is for rich people, but thanks for the laugh.
You're making the argument that a Maserati is a junky car because it is a fraction of a second slower than a Ferrari, when they are all supercars.

And you are also buying into a pro-industry test of industry products. Maybe they work exactly as tested, maybe real world it doesn't matter which wax if you get caught even once in the rain.

I don't mind anyone buying whatever product they want. Just don't act like some company is doing you a special favor, and everyone who doesn't think so is some kind of idiot. People have been waxing chains for decades - all of a sudden it is popular and all the pundits come out of the woodwork to explain how smart they are and how they have invented something new. Putting additives in hot wax is also nothing new.
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Old 04-02-24, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
You're making the argument that a Maserati is a junky car because it is a fraction of a second slower than a Ferrari, when they are all supercars.

And you are also buying into a pro-industry test of industry products. Maybe they work exactly as tested, maybe real world it doesn't matter which wax if you get caught even once in the rain.

I don't mind anyone buying whatever product they want. Just don't act like some company is doing you a special favor, and everyone who doesn't think so is some kind of idiot. People have been waxing chains for decades - all of a sudden it is popular and all the pundits come out of the woodwork to explain how smart they are and how they have invented something new. Putting additives in hot wax is also nothing new.
I'm not making that argument. And you aren't coming across as someone that is able to follow the conversation. Good luck!
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Old 04-03-24, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by KJ43
If only there was someone out there looking into this as far as quality of lubricant and cost over mileage.....

Zero Friction Cycling Lubricant Testing

But please, keep using your crappy candle wax, not supporting the cycling industry, and spending more over time. I don't mind at all.
What are the two charts on the top and middle right? The titles seem to be missing which blocks they refer to. Not that the overall results don’t stand for themselves anyway in terms of the benefits of waxing vs wet lubes.
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Old 04-03-24, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
I feel like you didn't read the exchange that lead to what you're quoting. The other poster thinks candle wax is crap.
But it's not. Do I use candle wax? No. I buy blocks of food grade paraffin wax and I add PTFE at a 10:1 ratio. Would I use candle wax if I couldn't afford to spend a few more bucks on paraffin wax? Yes. It would most likely do the same job. Chances are that big companies such as Silca and MSW are sourcing their paraffin from the same plants as the dollar store candle companies... Bottom line, wax is wax, right?

OZ Cycle did a series of testing with this wax / PTFE blend and compared it with others big brand companies wax, such as Silca and MSW. Guess what was the conclusion?

Skip to 14:15 for the results. Of course, this is not scientific / empirical data, but as I said a few posts ago, I trust the guy.


If any of you are interested to save money and get the same or better efficiency, here's the link to the video explaining the recipe and benefits:


Last edited by eduskator; 04-03-24 at 05:57 AM.
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Old 04-03-24, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by eduskator
But it's not. Do I use candle wax? No. I buy blocks of food grade paraffin wax and I add PTFE at a 10:1 ratio. Would I use candle wax if I couldn't afford to spend a few more bucks on paraffin wax? Yes. It would most likely do the same job.

OZ Cycle did a series of testing with this wax / PTFE blend and compared it with others big brand companies wax, such as Silca and MSW. Guess what was the conclusion?

Skip to 14:15 for the results. Of course, this is not scientific / empirical data, but as I said a few posts ago, I trust the guy.

If any of you are interested to save money and get the same or better efficiency, here's the link to the video explaining the recipe and benefits:
The whole idea of sowing the environment with PTFE powder because of marginal lubrication gains is short sighted and frankly selfish. Also I'm not at all sure that high a ratio of PTFE in wax makes any sort of positive difference. And on top of that you could get the same effect with tungsten disulfide, molybdenum disulfide or graphite powder, none of which are microplastics.

On the topic of food grade paraffin vs candles, the food grade is better. Candle's paraffin oil content can be anything but it's definitely much higher than food grade paraffin. Also candles often contain stearic acid which hasn't been tested in chain use at all. But by my experience with stearic acid I'd maintain that it does not improve the quality of the wax as a chain lubricant.

There are different types of paraffin. Some are soft, some are hard, some have high melting point whereas others have low melting point and all said examples can have the same oil content. Then there is the group of microcrystalline waxes which are even more varied in properties.
If a company wants to make a good chain wax they'll contact a factory and ask them which of their waxes would work best as a chain wax. Or perhaps which combination of paraffins and microcrystalline waxes would work best. Perhaps not all wax manufacturers make the effort, but some definitely do. Rex and MSwax new formula are a pretty good indication of that.
The same goes with ski waxes. You could wax skis with paraffin, buuut they'd suck for certain conditions and they'd be fine in others. Or you could get temperature specific waxes which work for a given temperature range and moisture condition. Sadly chain waxes aren't quite there yet. There aren't winter and summer waxes yet.
To summarize, It's more complicated than just looking at paraffin and thinking it's one substance.

You mentioned yourself, that Oz Cycle test isn't scientific and it definitely isn't. There's more uncontrolled factors than there are controlled ones. Riding in the wild with uncontrolled power, uncontrolled conditions and wind, uncontrolled wet exposure, uncontrolled wax intervals, uncontrolled maintenance after wet rides, etc.
Also he didn't take zero measurements of the chains. He just checked that a completely different chain didn't have stretch as new. Yay...
And he used different bikes! Different tires! Did he have calibrated odometers or did he use GPS data?
I mean come on! One of the bikes is an aero bike with what seems to be a different fit. It's not exactly a huge stretch of imagination to come to a conclusion that perhaps the aero bike required less overall energy (and thus less overall wear) to achieve the 3000km mark. If the riding position on said bike is more aerodynamic the differences in "fuel mileage" and chain wear could be pretty darn significant. Also unsurprisingly he put the homemade wax on the aero bike...

The only conclusion you can take from that is that both chains had wax on them.

And even then the results are dated, because MSwax has a new formula which is miles better than the old one.

ps. as a small disclaimer, I haven't used any of the fancy schmancy expensive waxes. But attempting to discredit them with data that's not actual testing data when there is actual real testing data available just grinds my gears a bit.
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Old 04-03-24, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
The whole idea of sowing the environment with PTFE powder because of marginal lubrication gains is short sighted and frankly selfish. Also I'm not at all sure that high a ratio of PTFE in wax makes any sort of positive difference. And on top of that you could get the same effect with tungsten disulfide, molybdenum disulfide or graphite powder, none of which are microplastics.

On the topic of food grade paraffin vs candles, the food grade is better. Candle's paraffin oil content can be anything but it's definitely much higher than food grade paraffin. Also candles often contain stearic acid which hasn't been tested in chain use at all. But by my experience with stearic acid I'd maintain that it does not improve the quality of the wax as a chain lubricant.

There are different types of paraffin. Some are soft, some are hard, some have high melting point whereas others have low melting point and all said examples can have the same oil content. Then there is the group of microcrystalline waxes which are even more varied in properties.
If a company wants to make a good chain wax they'll contact a factory and ask them which of their waxes would work best as a chain wax. Or perhaps which combination of paraffins and microcrystalline waxes would work best. Perhaps not all wax manufacturers make the effort, but some definitely do. Rex and MSwax new formula are a pretty good indication of that.
The same goes with ski waxes. You could wax skis with paraffin, buuut they'd suck for certain conditions and they'd be fine in others. Or you could get temperature specific waxes which work for a given temperature range and moisture condition. Sadly chain waxes aren't quite there yet. There aren't winter and summer waxes yet.
To summarize, It's more complicated than just looking at paraffin and thinking it's one substance.

You mentioned yourself, that Oz Cycle test isn't scientific and it definitely isn't. There's more uncontrolled factors than there are controlled ones. Riding in the wild with uncontrolled power, uncontrolled conditions and wind, uncontrolled wet exposure, uncontrolled wax intervals, uncontrolled maintenance after wet rides, etc.
Also he didn't take zero measurements of the chains. He just checked that a completely different chain didn't have stretch as new. Yay...
And he used different bikes! Different tires! Did he have calibrated odometers or did he use GPS data?
I mean come on! One of the bikes is an aero bike with what seems to be a different fit. It's not exactly a huge stretch of imagination to come to a conclusion that perhaps the aero bike required less overall energy (and thus less overall wear) to achieve the 3000km mark. If the riding position on said bike is more aerodynamic the differences in "fuel mileage" and chain wear could be pretty darn significant. Also unsurprisingly he put the homemade wax on the aero bike...

The only conclusion you can take from that is that both chains had wax on them.

And even then the results are dated, because MSwax has a new formula which is miles better than the old one.

ps. as a small disclaimer, I haven't used any of the fancy schmancy expensive waxes. But attempting to discredit them with data that's not actual testing data when there is actual real testing data available just grinds my gears a bit.
Very good analysis.

For the records, I'm not trying to discredit anyone, however, but I firmly believe that home made wax blend is - as better or better - than the big brand chain wax companies. My blend costs me a fifth or even a tenth of theirs and I am satisfied with what I am getting out of it in terms of efficiency, quietness and cleanliness.

Last edited by eduskator; 04-03-24 at 06:05 AM.
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Old 04-03-24, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by eduskator
But it's not. Do I use candle wax? No. I buy blocks of food grade paraffin wax and I add PTFE at a 10:1 ratio. Would I use candle wax if I couldn't afford to spend a few more bucks on paraffin wax? Yes. It would most likely do the same job. Chances are that big companies such as Silca and MSW are sourcing their paraffin from the same plants as the dollar store candle companies... Bottom line, wax is wax, right?

OZ Cycle did a series of testing with this wax / PTFE blend and compared it with others big brand companies wax, such as Silca and MSW. Guess what was the conclusion?

Skip to 14:15 for the results. Of course, this is not scientific / empirical data, but as I said a few posts ago, I trust the guy.

Is this the ultimate bicycle chain lube? - Test results (youtube.com)

If any of you are interested to save money and get the same or better efficiency, here's the link to the video explaining the recipe and benefits:

Ultimate Chain wax - make it yourself (youtube.com)
Candle wax is paraffin wax.
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Old 04-03-24, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Candle wax is paraffin wax.
Indeed it is. The food grade one is purer, though.
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Old 04-03-24, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by eduskator
Very good analysis.

For the records, I'm not trying to discredit anyone, however, but I firmly believe that home made wax blend is - as better or better - than the big brand chain wax companies. My blend costs me a fifth or even a tenth of theirs and I am satisfied with what I am getting out of it in terms of efficiency, quietness and cleanliness.
But the home made stuff very clearly isn't better than the big brand stuff.
While the actual chain waxes may not offer five times the performance, they do offer better performance than home made waxes that contain either candle wax or food grade paraffin. With the more expensive product you get longer rewaxing intervals, better wear life for chains, better resistance against the elements, higher efficiency etc.

And they're usually not environmentally harmful as none of the big brands I know of use microplastics.

Bang for buck home made stuff may take the win if that's all you care about. Personally the one thing I'm most interested in is rewaxing intervals in challenging conditions. And regular ol' paraffin isn't great there.
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Old 04-04-24, 01:05 AM
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It should be noted that NOS period-correct food grade wax is available for C&V crowd.


From back when Pittsburgh had one of the seven sisters.
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Old 04-04-24, 09:40 AM
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As kids we used to fight over the wax that came off jars of jam. It was poor man's bubble gum
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Old 04-04-24, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by SpedFast
As kids we used to fight over the wax that came off jars of jam. It was poor man's bubble gum
funny, i actually remember doing that too. had jam stuck to it.
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Old 04-04-24, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Candle wax is paraffin wax.
I throw unwanted scented candles into the crockpot - doesn't seem to make a difference to the chains
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Old 04-07-24, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
But the home made stuff very clearly isn't better than the big brand stuff.
Not looking for a fight, but curious.

Where is the actual data "clearly" showing this?

Originally Posted by elcruxio
While the actual chain waxes may not offer five times the performance, they do offer better performance than home made waxes that contain either candle wax or food grade paraffin. With the more expensive product you get longer rewaxing intervals, better wear life for chains, better resistance against the elements, higher efficiency etc.
Not looking for a fight, but curious.

Where is the actual data "clearly" showing this?

Originally Posted by elcruxio
And they're usually not environmentally harmful as none of the big brands I know of use microplastics.
How many use teflon or other additives ... and in what quantities ... and has any of this been scientifically proven to have a beneficial lubricating effect in real-world application, and/or a serious negative environmental impact? How much does a bike with a little teflon in the wax pollute per mile versus, say, a car?

Originally Posted by elcruxio
Bang for buck home made stuff may take the win if that's all you care about. Personally the one thing I'm most interested in is rewaxing intervals in challenging conditions. And regular ol' paraffin isn't great there.
As has been mentioned, there is no actual Scientific data ... I am glad that Aussie guy made those videos, and I have been using his method with excellent effect for several years ... but a lot of the differences are marginal, and the overall impact unclear ... (for instance, wax with teflon is seen by some as an environmental evil but oil is okay?) Also, rewaxing intervals are only one metric ... show me the side-by-side tests with equivalent bikes with identical drivetrains and show which method causes less wear ... but you cannot use human operators of course ... you would need to hook both bikes to electric motors and shift at precisely coordinated intervals ...

And sicne no one really knows exactly what works best for each individual ... it is possible that using the expensive wax and taking that one extra ride, that extra forty or seventy miles, actually causes more wear than re-applying the cheap, home-made stuff one ride sooner .... or not.

None of the science would hold up in a masters' program ... glad people did what they did, and for me, homemade paraffin/teflon is just fine ... but really, none of us know. We are all just deciding what we like and doing it.
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Old 04-10-24, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Isn't immersive waxing what Thetis did to Achilles when he was a baby? Look how that turned out ...
We know his name 3000 years later, so I would say it worked out pretty well.
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Old 04-12-24, 05:35 PM
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So I tried my first chain waxing today. Last week I picked up a small crock pot at Goodwill for $2.50, bought two pounds of wax and some teflon from Amazon. I used one pound in the crock pot and "eyeballed" the teflon at about 15-ish grams.

I actually did three chains today but the first one I did went on my Shiv and I put in a 34 mile ride. Can't say I really noticed a difference, but I wasn't expecting to notice a difference either. The main reason I am giving this a shot is because I live in a dry, dusty, sandy climate and chain maintenance thus far always results in cleaning a lot of oily, gritty gunk off the chain. My main objective is just a clean drivetrain with some extended chain life.

We shall see.
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Old 04-12-24, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by VegasJen
So I tried my first chain waxing today. Last week I picked up a small crock pot at Goodwill for $2.50, bought two pounds of wax and some teflon from Amazon. I used one pound in the crock pot and "eyeballed" the teflon at about 15-ish grams.

I actually did three chains today but the first one I did went on my Shiv and I put in a 34 mile ride. Can't say I really noticed a difference, but I wasn't expecting to notice a difference either. The main reason I am giving this a shot is because I live in a dry, dusty, sandy climate and chain maintenance thus far always results in cleaning a lot of oily, gritty gunk off the chain. My main objective is just a clean drivetrain with some extended chain life.

We shall see.
Most cyclist that wax their chains report an increase in the number of flat tires they experience.
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Old 04-12-24, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by VegasJen
So I tried my first chain waxing today. Last week I picked up a small crock pot at Goodwill for $2.50, bought two pounds of wax and some teflon from Amazon. I used one pound in the crock pot and "eyeballed" the teflon at about 15-ish grams.

I actually did three chains today but the first one I did went on my Shiv and I put in a 34 mile ride. Can't say I really noticed a difference, but I wasn't expecting to notice a difference either. The main reason I am giving this a shot is because I live in a dry, dusty, sandy climate and chain maintenance thus far always results in cleaning a lot of oily, gritty gunk off the chain. My main objective is just a clean drivetrain with some extended chain life.

We shall see.
You live in the perfect environment for a waxed chain. At the least, you will notice how clean it stays. Just don't let that clean look fool you into thinking it doesn't need servicing when it's due.
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Old 04-16-24, 06:36 AM
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Speaking of which, I rewaxed mine this weekend and went for a ride yesterday. I had forgotten how quiet it was for the 1st 100kms.
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Old 04-16-24, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Most cyclist that wax their chains report an increase in the number of flat tires they experience.
Well, if you ride faster, then you ride over more crap per minute.
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Old 04-16-24, 06:21 PM
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my last ultegra chain using rocknroll gold lasted 1800 miles that was the chain that came on my bike. I just went over 3000 miles on my silca hot waxed ultegra chain purchased at rei. there is not perceivable wear yet. it has been hot waxed 3X with the silca drip wax in between. If nothing else it makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
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Old 04-17-24, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by jadmt
my last ultegra chain using rocknroll gold lasted 1800 miles that was the chain that came on my bike. I just went over 3000 miles on my silca hot waxed ultegra chain purchased at rei. there is not perceivable wear yet. it has been hot waxed 3X with the silca drip wax in between. If nothing else it makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
The last chain I had that wore out in less than 2000 miles was something un-named from China. It also cost me a chain ring Not going there again. It proved to me there is a limit to frugality.
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Old 04-17-24, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jadmt
my last ultegra chain using rocknroll gold lasted 1800 miles that was the chain that came on my bike. I just went over 3000 miles on my silca hot waxed ultegra chain purchased at rei. there is not perceivable wear yet. it has been hot waxed 3X with the silca drip wax in between. If nothing else it makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
Wax it at the right intervals and you should get anywhere between 6000mi to 9000mi from a single chain!
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Old 04-17-24, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by eduskator
Wax it at the right intervals and you should get anywhere between 6000mi to 9000mi from a single chain!
That is my current experience also since sticking with name brand chains and waxing every 300 miles or less, depending on riding conditions.
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Old 04-18-24, 04:53 AM
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Location: Québec, Canada
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Bikes: SL8 Pro, TCR beater

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Originally Posted by SpedFast
That is my current experience also since sticking with name brand chains and waxing every 300 miles or less, depending on riding conditions.
I've been using Ultegra chains with no issues so far, but I do 300kms (185mi) rewax intervals however.

There are more components (the rollers if I am not mistaken) treated with Sil-Tec on DA chains, which allegedly reduces the adherence of wax and additives. Not worth the extra $ IMO.

Last edited by eduskator; 04-18-24 at 05:14 AM.
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