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Are Hookless compatible tires cheaper to produce?

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Are Hookless compatible tires cheaper to produce?

Old 09-26-22, 10:36 AM
  #26  
msu2001la
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Haven't ridden tubeless so no comment there. I would far rather flat a tubular in front than a clincher. I rode tubulars for 3 decades and got my far share of front flats. Coming to a stop never rated as "memorable" events, Yes, the heart rate spike when it happens and pretty funky steering, but not a big deal unless you are cornering. I'm returning to tubulars for all my good bikes primarily for that reason; safety after blowouts/flats. (The sublime ride and security of feeling riding over virtually anything is the nice desert. )
I've seen enough rolled tubulars in my time to know that this also isn't a bullet proof solution.
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Old 09-26-22, 12:12 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
pretty funky steering, but not a big deal unless you are cornering)
Well as long as you can guarantee you won't flat while cornering, no problem! Unfortunately, I've been unable to schedule my flats, regardless of tire technology.
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Old 09-26-22, 05:15 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
I've seen enough rolled tubulars in my time to know that this also isn't a bullet proof solution.
But ... that's user error. Glue 'em properly and not an issue. And the glue job is easy to check.
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Old 09-26-22, 05:17 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
Well as long as you can guarantee you won't flat while cornering, no problem! Unfortunately, I've been unable to schedule my flats, regardless of tire technology.
Show me the tire that will keep you up in a corner flatted. I want to know.
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Old 09-26-22, 07:56 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
Flats on the front have nothing to do with tubed/tubeless/tubular. A flat on the front frequently results in a dramatic loss of control, and is many times more difficult to control than a flat on the rear. FWIW, I've been running tubeless on my road bikes for a few years and have flatted at speed. Not an experience I'm eager to repeat..
But of course the tire type does have to do with the conditions of the flat, and itís simply unlikely that a punctured, or even cut, tubeless tire will rapidly deflate like a punctured tubed tire, or punctured tubular tire, will. Itís precisely the design of a tubeless tire and rim to hold air, unlike a tubed/tubular tire and rim which will not hold air at all if the tube is punctured. Furthermore, without any sealant to slow or stop air loss, tubed/tubular tires will deflate rapidly, with probable catastrophic impacts on handling. Due to the dramatically slower air loss rate of tubeless tires, loss of handling and control takes much longer, giving the rider a significantly bigger window to understand the condition (both feel of softening tire, and often, the telltale hissing of the puncture as sealant goes to work) and avoid dangerous situations.

Unlike relying on a flat tire to keep a rider from sliding out on an extremely slippery rim-to-road interface, a tubeless tire will go soft but still afford pneumatic grip long before it loses all air pressure (in most cases) and is far safer for that fact.
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Old 09-28-22, 07:01 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
But of course the tire type does have to do with the conditions of the flat, and itís simply unlikely that a punctured, or even cut, tubeless tire will rapidly deflate like a punctured tubed tire, or punctured tubular tire, will. Itís precisely the design of a tubeless tire and rim to hold air, unlike a tubed/tubular tire and rim which will not hold air at all if the tube is punctured. Furthermore, without any sealant to slow or stop air loss, tubed/tubular tires will deflate rapidly, with probable catastrophic impacts on handling. Due to the dramatically slower air loss rate of tubeless tires, loss of handling and control takes much longer, giving the rider a significantly bigger window to understand the condition (both feel of softening tire, and often, the telltale hissing of the puncture as sealant goes to work) and avoid dangerous situations.

Unlike relying on a flat tire to keep a rider from sliding out on an extremely slippery rim-to-road interface, a tubeless tire will go soft but still afford pneumatic grip long before it loses all air pressure (in most cases) and is far safer for that fact.
That is entirely beside the fact that it is easier to control a bike with a flat on the rear than to control a bike with a flat on the front. The ;oint was that you shouldn't put a repaired tire on the front to reduce wear. You should put a repaired tire on the rear and keen your best tire on the front.
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Old 09-28-22, 07:08 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
That is entirely beside the fact that it is easier to control a bike with a flat on the rear than to control a bike with a flat on the front. The ;oint was that you shouldn't put a repaired tire on the front to reduce wear. You should put a repaired tire on the rear and keen your best tire on the front.
No, it’s precisely the point; a slow leak is nowhere near as dangerous as sudden, complete loss of air. No one— not the OP, not me, not even you, up to this outlandish moment— has been talking about reducing wear. The serious discussion is about mitigating the risk of that cut reopening.

Last edited by chaadster; 09-28-22 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 09-28-22, 07:12 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
No, itís precisely the point; a slow leak is nowhere near as dangerous as sudden, complete loss of air. No oneó not the OP, not meó is talking about reducing wear. The serious discussion is about mitigating the risk of that cut reopening.
My point is simple: The advice to move a repaired tire from the rear to the front is increasing the risk of loss of control. You want your best tire in the front. This is true regardless of type of tire, and is true regardless of the type of flat. It is more important to maintain control of your front wheel than it is to control your rear wheel.
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Old 09-28-22, 07:20 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
My point is simple: The advice to move a repaired tire from the rear to the front is increasing the risk of loss of control. You want your best tire in the front. This is true regardless of type of tire, and is true regardless of the type of flat. It is more important to maintain control of your front wheel than it is to control your rear wheel.
Your point is grossly oversimplified and not really relevant to tubeless tire performance, becauseó and Iím sorry to have to keep repeating myself hereó tubeless tires do not have the same risk of loss of control as tubed or tubular tires because tubeless tires do not lose pressure, in most cases, in the rapid manner a tubed or tubular tire does.

In fact, Iíd wager most front tubeless punctures do not even cause the rider to stop, much less result in catastrophe such as loss of control.
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Old 09-28-22, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Your point is grossly oversimplified and not really relevant to tubeless tire performance, becauseó and Iím sorry to have to keep repeating myself hereó tubeless tires do not have the same risk of loss of control as tubed or tubular tires because tubeless tires do not lose pressure, in most cases, in the rapid manner a tubed or tubular tire does.

In fact, Iíd wager most front tubeless punctures do not even cause the rider to stop, much less result in catastrophe such as loss of control.
My point was in response to advice you offered: Quote:

"Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
if workable, moving it to the front would further mitigate running risk and avoid immediate replacement."

That is bad advice.

Have a great day.
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Old 09-28-22, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
My point was in response to advice you offered: Quote:

"Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
if workable, moving it to the front would further mitigate running risk and avoid immediate replacement."

That is bad advice.

Have a great day.
No, itís fine adviceÖitís correct advice. The front has a lower risk of puncture than the rear tire, typically, andó again, repeating myself hereó the concern of the OP was risk of the cut reopening.

In your world, where the performance characteristics of tubeless tires are apparently unknown, I can understand how youíd think it was bad advice, however, iit is sound advice when properly understood.
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Old 09-28-22, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
No, itís fine adviceÖitís correct advice..
Your advice is unsafe. Put your best tire on the front.

Have a great day.
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Old 09-28-22, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
Your advice is unsafe. Put your best tire on the front.

Have a great day.
Iím sorry you donít understand the issues, but I also seems clear that you donít want to.
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Old 09-29-22, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Iím sorry you donít understand the issues, but I also seems clear that you donít want to.
Have a great day!
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Old 09-29-22, 01:30 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Iím sorry you donít understand the issues, but I also seems clear that you donít want to.
Says the guy who thinks removing 1 tire is more effort than removing 2 tires.
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