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Carbon fiber bike life span

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Carbon fiber bike life span

Old 12-13-22, 06:10 PM
  #126  
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I am still riding the Trek 5200 CF road bike I purchased in 2001. There are many used Trek 5200 bikes for sale so durability in the real world is not an issue. I would be more concerned about a downhill mountain bike with CF forks self-destructing than with a road bike.
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Old 12-14-22, 09:24 AM
  #127  
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BF - carbon frames are bad for the environment, they last forever in landfills and won't ever degrade.

Also BF - How long can I ride my carbon bike before it dissolves out from under me and kills me?
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Old 12-14-22, 10:30 AM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by pallen View Post
BF - carbon frames are bad for the environment, they last forever in landfills and won't ever degrade.

Also BF - How long can I ride my carbon bike before it dissolves out from under me and kills me?
Wait a minute. If they last forever in a landfill, won't they last forever when they're being ridden?
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Old 12-14-22, 11:08 AM
  #129  
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I might think that from a product liability standpoint, most carbon bike manufacturers would over build their bikes rather than vice versa. It would only take a fatality or serious injuries from a failure (no matter the age of the frame) to put them under an undesirable spot light.
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Old 12-14-22, 12:06 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
I might think that from a product liability standpoint, most carbon bike manufacturers would over build their bikes rather than vice versa. It would only take a fatality or serious injuries from a failure (no matter the age of the frame) to put them under an undesirable spot light.
Taking that into account, especially when we are talking about a large risk-averse multinational company that would also have to factor in the poor public image should an unsafe product be sold. An S-Works Aethos is a 585-gram bicycle; it's incredible what can be done with carbon fibre.

Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 12-14-22 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 12-14-22, 02:14 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by pallen View Post
BF - carbon frames are bad for the environment, they last forever in landfills and won't ever degrade.

Also BF - How long can I ride my carbon bike before it dissolves out from under me and kills me?
There's a difference between "structural integrity" and "environmental persistence."
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Old 12-14-22, 02:24 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
I might think that from a product liability standpoint, most carbon bike manufacturers would over build their bikes rather than vice versa. It would only take a fatality or serious injuries from a failure (no matter the age of the frame) to put them under an undesirable spot light.
Are you under the impression that they don't over-build them? Cycling has been around long enough that the stresses on a bicycle frame are pretty well known.
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Old 12-14-22, 03:45 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
Are you under the impression that they don't over-build them? Cycling has been around long enough that the stresses on a bicycle frame are pretty well known.
How about an EMPHATIC NO. Gawd knows how your got that impression.
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Old 12-14-22, 03:51 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
There's a difference between "structural integrity" and "environmental persistence."
Of course, but those will likely be correlated to some degree.

Did anyone post this?
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Old 12-14-22, 03:52 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
How about an EMPHATIC NO. Gawd knows how your got that impression.
Okay. I wasn't sure of your intent in your comment. Probably just bad reading comprehension on my part.
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Old 12-14-22, 06:07 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
I might think that from a product liability standpoint, most carbon bike manufacturers would over build their bikes rather than vice versa. It would only take a fatality or serious injuries from a failure (no matter the age of the frame) to put them under an undesirable spot light.
One would think this is the case. Although the bean counters at Ford didn't think that way when they skimped on the design of the Pinto. They even admitted it was cheaper to pay damages to victims' families than to spend an extra $8 per car to make it safe.

This being said, I believe you are correct that most carbon fiber bikes are overbuilt.
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Old 12-14-22, 09:06 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
One would think this is the case. Although the bean counters at Ford didn't think that way when they skimped on the design of the Pinto. They even admitted it was cheaper to pay damages to victims' families than to spend an extra $8 per car to make it safe.

This being said, I believe you are correct that most carbon fiber bikes are overbuilt.
I recall that Ford episode very clearly. It was the most abhorrent disregard of human life for profit of that time. Of course now we have the Sacler family and OxyContin and so many more.

During my summers home from school, I drove a company Ford Pinto picking up specimens for a laboratory from doctors offices. I am so lucky considering the miles I, and my fellow drivers, put on those rolling bombs.
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Old 12-14-22, 09:15 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
During my summers home from school, I drove a company Ford Pinto picking up specimens for a laboratory from doctors offices. I am so lucky considering the miles I, and my fellow drivers, put on those rolling bombs.
I had a Ford Pinto for a couple of years. I even got rear ended in it, and it didn't go boom. A few years later I got a Bobcat, which was a really nice Pinto.
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Old 12-14-22, 09:18 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
I had a Ford Pinto for a couple of years. I even got rear ended in it, and it didn't go boom. A few years later I got a Bobcat, which was a really nice Pinto.
The Bobcat was the Mercury version of the Pinto.

I believe Ford eventually had a recall repair on the Pintos and Bobcats after enough people were cremated in those cars.
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Old 12-14-22, 09:19 PM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
I had a Ford Pinto for a couple of years. I even got rear ended in it, and it didn't go boom. A few years later I got a Bobcat, which was a really nice Pinto.
I remember those too. Think they were from Mercury. Little brother of the Cougar? (We had a 67 Cougar then)
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Old 12-14-22, 09:24 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
One would think this is the case. Although the bean counters at Ford didn't think that way when they skimped on the design of the Pinto. They even admitted it was cheaper to pay damages to victims' families than to spend an extra $8 per car to make it safe.

This being said, I believe you are correct that most carbon fiber bikes are overbuilt.
Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
I recall that Ford episode very clearly. It was the most abhorrent disregard of human life for profit of that time. Of course now we have the Sacler family and OxyContin and so many more.

During my summers home from school, I drove a company Ford Pinto picking up specimens for a laboratory from doctors offices. I am so lucky considering the miles I, and my fellow drivers, put on those rolling bombs.
And yet, virtually all government regulation, by law, must go through cost-benefit analysis before implementation -- which is essentially what Ford Motor Co did with the Pinto. As Lombard notes, they calculated that it was cheaper to pay off the lawsuits (for injuries and deaths) than to fix the vehicles. Given that such legal settlements are generally based upon the economic values of the lives lost (or injuries sustained), and such numbers are easily calculated for generic individuals and for specific individuals, one could argue that it was indeed more sensible to sell the Pinto as-is; the cost of fixing the problem was greater than the value of the lives lost and the injuries sustained. We could have a society in which no one -- not one single person -- would ever be killed in an auto mishap. But none of us is willing to bear the enormous costs of that policy. We make these decisions - as individuals and as societies - all the time.

Ford's inefficient decision was in concealing what they knew about the Pinto from their potential buyers. Information asymmetry is a well-understood market failure that leads to inefficient outcomes."

Last edited by Koyote; 12-14-22 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 12-14-22, 09:31 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
And yet, virtually all government regulation, by law, must go through cost-benefit analysis before implementation -- which is essentially what Ford Motor Co did with the Pinto. As Lombard notes, they calculated that it was cheaper to pay off the lawsuits (for injuries and deaths) than to fix the vehicles. Given that such legal settlements are generally based upon the economic values of the lives lost (or injuries sustained), and such numbers are easily calculated for generic individuals and for specific individuals, one could argue that it was indeed more sensible to sell the Pinto as-is. I mean, we could have a society in which no one -- not one single person -- would ever be killed in an auto mishap. But none of us is willing to bear the enormous costs of that policy. We make these decisions - as individuals and as societies - all the time.

Ford's inefficient decision was in concealing what they knew about the Pinto from their potential buyers. Information asymmetry is a well-understood market failure that leads to inefficient outcomes."
Dodge/Chrysler had a similar ploy with faulty rear hatches on their mini-vans. They would unlatch and somehow eject rear passengers - the physics of this evades me. I believe they did a similar CBA and decided fixing the latches didnít make economic sense until the Feds forced their hand.
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Old 12-14-22, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
I remember those too. Think they were from Mercury. Little brother of the Cougar? (We had a 67 Cougar then)
No. The Cougar was Mercury's version of the Mustang. I believe the Mercury version of the Pinto was called the Bobcat.
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Old 12-14-22, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
Dodge/Chrysler had a similar ploy with faulty rear hatches on their mini-vans. They would unlatch and somehow eject rear passengers - the physics of this evades me. I believe they did a similar CBA and decided fixing the latches didnít make economic sense until the Feds forced their hand.
Chrysler in that era, under Lee Iacocca, was pretty much the auto industry's leading opponent of any and all safety regulation designed to save people's lives.
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Old 12-14-22, 09:41 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Chrysler in that era, under Lee Iacocca, was pretty much the auto industry's leading opponent of any and all safety regulation designed to save people's lives.
Iím with Lee. Human life is soooo overrated. Eliminate a few and a zillion more take their place.
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Old 12-14-22, 10:09 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
One would think this is the case. Although the bean counters at Ford didn't think that way when they skimped on the design of the Pinto. They even admitted it was cheaper to pay damages to victims' families than to spend an extra $8 per car to make it safe.

This being said, I believe you are correct that most carbon fiber bikes are overbuilt.
I worked for Koch Industries for a year back in the day. They would tie up the EPA in court as a corporate strategy. It was cheaper to pay lawyers and even the EPA and state fines than actually stop the oil leaks and water poisoning. One time they happily paid $30 million. No regard for human life, wildlife, or the environment. This is all too common, sadly. My 2014 BMC is still going strong as the first day. I suspect it will be my climbing bike and my trainer bike as long as it lasts. I think it is the resin that prevents CF from being recycled easily. There are ways to remove the resin and people are doing that now. I'll have to see who all are doing this and what the products are. Carbon castings are made though the fibers cannot be rewoven.
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Old 12-15-22, 06:09 AM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by Chandne View Post
I think it is the resin that prevents CF from being recycled easily. There are ways to remove the resin and people are doing that now.
I suspect the environmental impact here would be worse than tossing it in a landfill.
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Old 12-15-22, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
And yet, virtually all government regulation, by law, must go through cost-benefit analysis before implementation -- which is essentially what Ford Motor Co did with the Pinto. As Lombard notes, they calculated that it was cheaper to pay off the lawsuits (for injuries and deaths) than to fix the vehicles. Given that such legal settlements are generally based upon the economic values of the lives lost (or injuries sustained), and such numbers are easily calculated for generic individuals and for specific individuals, one could argue that it was indeed more sensible to sell the Pinto as-is; the cost of fixing the problem was greater than the value of the lives lost and the injuries sustained. We could have a society in which no one -- not one single person -- would ever be killed in an auto mishap. But none of us is willing to bear the enormous costs of that policy. We make these decisions - as individuals and as societies - all the time.

Ford's inefficient decision was in concealing what they knew about the Pinto from their potential buyers. Information asymmetry is a well-understood market failure that leads to inefficient outcomes."
And then there was case with the Chevy Corvair which was the inspiration for Ralph Nader's "Unsafe at Any Speed". The engineers at GM said that the Corvair should have a front stabilizer bar to prevent oversteer and possible rollover. Here again, the bean counters at GM didn't want to spend the small cost to make the car safe.
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Old 12-15-22, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
No. The Cougar was Mercury's version of the Mustang. I believe the Mercury version of the Pinto was called the Bobcat.
That was until the mid-1970's when the Cougar wandered off and became the Mercury version of the Torino/Gran Torino, LTD and eventually the Thunderbird in the late 1970's during the "glamour coupe" era.


;
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Old 12-15-22, 07:17 AM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
I suspect the environmental impact here would be worse than tossing it in a landfill.
Possible. They do it using heat or chemicals. Some companies are now developing a more easily dissolvable resin that is even reusable. Let's just hope it isn't dissolvable in rain.
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