Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Any other 1x road climbers here?

Notices
Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

Any other 1x road climbers here?

Old 12-23-22, 10:35 AM
  #151  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,949
Liked 5,232 Times in 3,230 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat
Got to admit, your passion for your cause is right up there with the people on the Waxing thread. You should however, refrain from calling the rest of the posters on the thread a word that the mods might think is vulgar. I'd consider an edit.
It's only a problem for the most cynical of posters and they deserve a bit of flak surely??
PeteHski is offline  
Old 12-23-22, 10:36 AM
  #152  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 341

Bikes: Windsor TimeLine; Linus Gaston 3; Sears Free Spirit

Liked 99 Times in 46 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
Good question and I don't know the answer. I suspect it's mainly Classified's focus on high-end lightweight road use. I presume the Sturmey-Archer system is much heavier. Also not sure about the torque limit with Sturmey-Archer? May or may not be an issue for high performance users.

Just Googling now I see the Classified Hub is already finding it's way into the pro peloton. Also some interesting pro/con points raised in this article

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cla...n-pro-peloton/

*Note: for all the cynical bastards, I have no link with Classified and don't give a **** whether or not you choose to spend £1000 on it!
The Sturmey three speeds arenít unreasonably heavy, but people are used to thinking of hub gears on 50 pound Dutch bikes or old Raleigh Sports and other upright bikes. People just donít think of them for other uses.

In that respect, regardless of how much (or how little) the Classified hub differs from the Sturmey system, Classified has done the right marketing push: Proving their hub in high performance applications. But everything old is new againÖ

By the way, the disc brake version of the Sturmey cassette hub will take an 11-34 cassette.

EDIT: Actually, all of their cassette hubs will. And youíre not limited to Sunrace (who owns Sturmey-Archer) cassettes.

Last edited by rudypyatt; 12-23-22 at 10:40 AM. Reason: Additional information
rudypyatt is offline  
Old 12-23-22, 10:40 AM
  #153  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,949
Liked 5,232 Times in 3,230 Posts
Originally Posted by msu2001la
Some teams run 1x for the flatter classic races now. Also a lot of TT bikes are going 1x for flatter courses.

Trek Segafredo ran 54T front rings with 10-36 cassettes at Paris Roubaix and a few other races in 2022. The benefits they cited are a straighter chainline and less chance of chain drop on the cobbled sectors of the race - further helped by the K-Edge chain guide. Looks like a narrow-wide chainring, and that SRAM AXS RD is clutched/damped to eliminate chain slap and bounce.

Pretty sure the Shimano teams are still all on 2x for these races, which probably has to do more with being "sponsor correct" than anything else.


Edit - it actually looks like a few Shimano teams did run 1x as well. Total Energies had a few bikes with XTR and GRX derailleurs this year:
Interesting thanks. I guess they're not massive FD fans either and hence looking for alternative solutions where feasible.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 12-23-22, 10:54 AM
  #154  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,574
Liked 2,585 Times in 1,536 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
It's only a problem for the most cynical of posters and they deserve a bit of flak surely??
No, it goes against the board rules. It wouldn't be me, but you could get reported and a visit from a mod. Just a suggestion that has nothing to do with the content of the thread.
seypat is online now  
Old 12-23-22, 11:11 AM
  #155  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,949
Liked 5,232 Times in 3,230 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat
No, it goes against the board rules. It wouldn't be me, but you could get reported and a visit from a mod. Just a suggestion that has nothing to do with the content of the thread.
But presumably it's okay to call someone a "shill" or "snake oil salesman" just because they are being cynical? I don't really care. If someone wants to report me for having a little dig at the cynical people on this forum then they can go right ahead. I've about had enough of the forum cynicism anyway. It's everywhere at the moment for whatever reason - sign of the times maybe?

Last edited by PeteHski; 12-23-22 at 11:26 AM.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 12-23-22, 11:17 AM
  #156  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,949
Liked 5,232 Times in 3,230 Posts
Originally Posted by rudypyatt
The Sturmey three speeds arenít unreasonably heavy, but people are used to thinking of hub gears on 50 pound Dutch bikes or old Raleigh Sports and other upright bikes. People just donít think of them for other uses.

In that respect, regardless of how much (or how little) the Classified hub differs from the Sturmey system, Classified has done the right marketing push: Proving their hub in high performance applications. But everything old is new againÖ

By the way, the disc brake version of the Sturmey cassette hub will take an 11-34 cassette.

EDIT: Actually, all of their cassette hubs will. And youíre not limited to Sunrace (who owns Sturmey-Archer) cassettes.
I agree definitely the same basic principle. Looks like Classified are bringing hub gearing into the high-performance market as a specific replacement for a conventional road 2x.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 12-23-22, 11:20 AM
  #157  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,574
Liked 2,585 Times in 1,536 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
But presumably it's okay to call someone a "shill" or "snake oil salesman" just because they are being cynical? I don't really care. If someone wants to report me for having a little dig at the cynical bastards on this forum then they can go right ahead. I've about had enough of the forum cynicism anyway. It's everywhere at the moment for whatever reason - sign of the times maybe?
Yes, it's the choice of words. Replace the word you're using with people, etc or just use shills, cynics and you'll be ok. And, if you decide to exit, no need for an announcement.
seypat is online now  
Likes For seypat:
Old 12-23-22, 11:23 AM
  #158  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,949
Liked 5,232 Times in 3,230 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat
Got to admit, your passion for your cause is right up there with the people on the Waxing thread.
BTW my passion for this is much less than you would think from this thread. I'm just interested in how bike drivetrains may progress in future. I don't ride my 2x road bike and get upset about the FD. But it would be quite nice to see them replaced with something inherently better. For me it's a toss up between hub gearing or 1x. I'm slightly favouring 1x for its simplicity and lower cost.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 12-23-22, 11:27 AM
  #159  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,949
Liked 5,232 Times in 3,230 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat
Yes, it's the choice of words. Replace the word you're using with people, etc or just use shills, cynics and you'll be ok. And, if you decide to exit, no need for an announcement.
Are you happy now you are just being a plain "cynical person"?

Last edited by PeteHski; 12-23-22 at 11:35 AM. Reason: typo
PeteHski is offline  
Old 12-23-22, 11:55 AM
  #160  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,195

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Liked 7,761 Times in 3,107 Posts
Originally Posted by msu2001la
Trek Segafredo ran 54T front rings with 10-36 cassettes at Paris Roubaix and a few other races in 2022.
I think it was only one guy (Mads Pedersen) on Trek Segafredo that ran a 1x setup.

Pedersen's Trek-Segafredo teammates, Katusha-Alpecin, CCC-Liv and Canyon-SRAM were all using the new 12-speed groupset from SRAM, however, on the start line it appeared that just Pedersen was running the 1X setup.
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 12-23-22, 12:09 PM
  #161  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 341

Bikes: Windsor TimeLine; Linus Gaston 3; Sears Free Spirit

Liked 99 Times in 46 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
I agree definitely the same basic principle. Looks like Classified are bringing hub gearing into the high-performance market as a specific replacement for a conventional road 2x.
Itís good to see. Frankly, Raleigh/Sturmey-Archer blew it back in the 1950s and early 1960s when they stopped developing club and racing hubs such as the AR, AC, AM, and FM. But the hybrid kits were available (I think) from at least the 1940s.

I love Sturmey three speeds; I have the SRF3 on both my bikes, one of which is only 20 pounds post-three speed conversion. If I ever get a bike with a rear derailleur, itíll definitely be a 1x, probably with a Sturmey hub/cassette drive. In fact, with Classified raising the profile of the concept, I would not be surprised to see someone (BikesDirect for instance) catalog such a bike at a mass market/discount price.
rudypyatt is offline  
Old 12-23-22, 12:46 PM
  #162  
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,897
Liked 1,495 Times in 876 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
I think it was only one guy (Mads Pedersen) on Trek Segafredo that ran a 1x setup.
That's not correct. Most, if not all of the Trek Segafredo team was on 1x this year. Women too.
They've been experimenting with 1x for 3-4 years at Roubaix. The bike in my earlier post is from 2019.






Lizzie Deignan won on 1x in 2021:
Lizzie Deignan's winning Paris-Roubaix bike | 1x, tubeless & discs - BikeRadar
"Trek-Segafredo women’s team opted for a 1x setup for Roubaix, pairing a 50-tooth front chainring (fitted with a Quarq power meter) with a 12-speed 10-33t cassette and SRAM’s wireless electronic Red eTap AXS rear derailleur. With the 116k Paris-Roubaix Femmes predominantly played out over flat roads, Deignan had little need for a front derailleur, though the British rider had a K-Edge chain catcher in place to provide some additional security over the harsh cobbles."

Elisa Longo Borgini won on 1x in 2022:
Longo Borghini's race-winning Trek Domane - 'The perfect bike for Paris-Roubaix' | Cyclingnews
"Elisa’s bike was set up as a 1x setup with a Sram Red AXS groupset, sporting a large 52-tooth front chainring, alongside what we expect was a 10-36 rear cassette."

Last edited by msu2001la; 12-23-22 at 12:54 PM.
msu2001la is offline  
Likes For msu2001la:
Old 12-23-22, 01:21 PM
  #163  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,195

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Liked 7,761 Times in 3,107 Posts
Originally Posted by msu2001la
That's not correct. Most, if not all of the Trek Segafredo team was on 1x this year. Women too.
Yep, I think you're right. Mads was the loner at the beginning, but others on the team have now jumped on the train.
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 12-23-22, 01:55 PM
  #164  
I am potato.
 
base2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 3,221

Bikes: Only precision built, custom high performance elitist machines of the highest caliber. 🍆

Liked 1,742 Times in 993 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
Often the issue with new tech. But doesnít change the fact that FDs are conceptually limited. Itís the reason why engineers are looking for alternative, inherently better solutions.
Originally Posted by seypat
Evidently they do, or you wouldn't have conceded and made this statement.



BTW, I agree with your statements about hub shifting concepts but it's not there yet. It's not there with the Rolhoff, or the IGH. It's not there with this product yet either. It will probably will at some point, but not currently.
It is possible you both are correct.

The CS-RF3 & its disc brake brother CS-RK3 have the range of a triple & it's all in the rear hub. Reading between the lines of the spec sheet the lowest drive ratio is 1:1. So long as 1:1 is maintained the total range can be as many percent as you want.

Here is mine with a 1x narrow/wide 42 tooth chainring & 11-42 cassette & XTR Shadow+ derailleur. That's 20 to 140 gear inches with 700x38 tires. A final drive ratio of about 0.75:1 to 5:1 is ~680% range. I mated the hub to a Velocity A23 off-center rim for truly equal spoke tension.

Ritchey Ascent Breakaway by Richard Mozzarella, on Flickr

I've seen the system you two are bickering about. With out even considering the cost, the proprietary cassette is a hard no. The Sturmey can accept any cassette that'll fit on an 8,9,10 speed freehub body & the cost is the same $100-$200 you'd spend on a truly decent hub anyways.

Yes, the hub is a bit heavy. But, being a weight weenie myself, bikes today are fairly light. It wouldn't be hard to make such a bike in the 20-25 pound range with proper component selection. Hub weight difference of a single hub isn't likely to make a hurdle of 4-500 grams or so high it can't be overcome...Even if it mattered.

Last edited by base2; 12-23-22 at 02:08 PM.
base2 is online now  
Likes For base2:
Old 12-23-22, 03:11 PM
  #165  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,949
Liked 5,232 Times in 3,230 Posts
Originally Posted by base2

I've seen the system you two are bickering about. With out even considering the cost, the proprietary cassette is a hard no. The Sturmey can accept any cassette that'll fit on an 8,9,10 speed freehub body & the cost is the same $100-$200 you'd spend on a truly decent hub anyways.
Yeah I only really mentioned Classified as an example of a contemporary alternative to a 2x FD before I was labelled as their top sales shill. Sturmey could be its Great Great Grandfather! I could live with a proprietary cassette, but limited wheelsets and cost of change would be my main barriers. That and 1x being feasible for my road riding.
PeteHski is offline  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 12-23-22, 03:12 PM
  #166  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 341

Bikes: Windsor TimeLine; Linus Gaston 3; Sears Free Spirit

Liked 99 Times in 46 Posts
Originally Posted by base2
It is possible you both are correct.

The CS-RF3 & its disc brake brother CS-RK3 have the range of a triple & it's all in the rear hub. Reading between the lines of the spec sheet the lowest drive ratio is 1:1. So long as 1:1 is maintained the total range can be as many percent as you want.

Here is mine with a 1x narrow/wide 42 tooth chainring & 11-42 cassette & XTR Shadow+ derailleur. That's 20 to 140 gear inches with 700x38 tires. A final drive ratio of about 0.75:1 to 5:1 is ~680% range. I mated the hub to a Velocity A23 off-center rim for truly equal spoke tension.

Ritchey Ascent Breakaway by Richard Mozzarella, on Flickr

I've seen the system you two are bickering about. With out even considering the cost, the proprietary cassette is a hard no. The Sturmey can accept any cassette that'll fit on an 8,9,10 speed freehub body & the cost is the same $100-$200 you'd spend on a truly decent hub anyways.

Yes, the hub is a bit heavy. But, being a weight weenie myself, bikes today are fairly light. It wouldn't be hard to make such a bike in the 20-25 pound range with proper component selection. Hub weight difference of a single hub isn't likely to make a hurdle of 4-500 grams or so high it can't be overcome...Even if it mattered.
Elegant proof of concept which brings me back to my original thinking: Sturmey-Archer had this solved long ago. What Classified has is bling factor and marketing to the high performance crowd, something Sturmey-Archer can still do if theyíre willing to make the effort. Being Sturmey-Archer, it wonít have the snob appeal of Shimano or Campagnolo or SRAM. But itís clear their hybrid system works well.
rudypyatt is offline  
Old 12-24-22, 09:50 AM
  #167  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,949
Liked 5,232 Times in 3,230 Posts
Originally Posted by rudypyatt
Elegant proof of concept which brings me back to my original thinking: Sturmey-Archer had this solved long ago. What Classified has is bling factor and marketing to the high performance crowd, something Sturmey-Archer can still do if theyíre willing to make the effort. Being Sturmey-Archer, it wonít have the snob appeal of Shimano or Campagnolo or SRAM. But itís clear their hybrid system works well.
Maybe it is too niche for SA to bother. l doubt hub gearing will become mainstream on performance road bikes until Shimano/SRAM/Campag get involved. It might never happen with 1x becoming more feasible. 1x13 is close to the tipping point for 2x becoming redundant.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 12-24-22, 01:02 PM
  #168  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 341

Bikes: Windsor TimeLine; Linus Gaston 3; Sears Free Spirit

Liked 99 Times in 46 Posts
[QUOTE=PeteHski;22747979]Maybe it is too niche for SA to bother. l doubt hub gearing will become mainstream on performance road bikes until Shimano/SRAM/Campag get involved. It might never happen with 1x becoming more feasible. 1x13 is close to the tipping point for 2x becoming redundant.[/

I agree. SA, old as it is, doesnít have the prestige the others have. That said, itís the only hub gear I will ever ride; I am a very satisfied customer.

Ix13 would really be something.
rudypyatt is offline  
Old 12-24-22, 01:37 PM
  #169  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,853
Likes: 0
Liked 259 Times in 153 Posts
It really comes down to the rider and the terrain. I am happy with 1x11 for riding near my home but it wouldn't be my choice for properly mountainous terrain. It doesn't have the range and I don't like the weight or aesthetics of dinner plate size cassettes and long arm derailleurs.1x13 wouldn't solve that for me.
Dean V is offline  
Likes For Dean V:
Old 12-24-22, 04:21 PM
  #170  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,949
Liked 5,232 Times in 3,230 Posts
Originally Posted by Dean V
It really comes down to the rider and the terrain. I am happy with 1x11 for riding near my home but it wouldn't be my choice for properly mountainous terrain. It doesn't have the range and I don't like the weight or aesthetics of dinner plate size cassettes and long arm derailleurs.1x13 wouldn't solve that for me.
There's nothing in it on overall weight. Ekar 1x13 is one of the lightest groupsets around. I don't mind the aesthetics of larger cassettes, but they can be expensive.
PeteHski is offline  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 12-25-22, 09:55 PM
  #171  
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Posts: 52
Liked 22 Times in 16 Posts
Glad I found this topic. I've been debating riding an 8 speed State bike on a bike tour from NJ to DC next year. It's not a bikepacking tour with luggage and it's over the course of 4 days. The longest day will be approximately 100 miles and we stop about every 20-25 miles. I don't expect there will be any major climbing but we will have some rolling hills here and there.

The bike has 44t up front and 11-28t in the rear. I was looking into options for a different cassette which may have better gearing for hills but I really didn't want to make any major changes to the drivetrain.
6door74 is offline  
Old 12-27-22, 01:05 PM
  #172  
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,897
Liked 1,495 Times in 876 Posts
Originally Posted by 6door74
Glad I found this topic. I've been debating riding an 8 speed State bike on a bike tour from NJ to DC next year. It's not a bikepacking tour with luggage and it's over the course of 4 days. The longest day will be approximately 100 miles and we stop about every 20-25 miles. I don't expect there will be any major climbing but we will have some rolling hills here and there.

The bike has 44t up front and 11-28t in the rear. I was looking into options for a different cassette which may have better gearing for hills but I really didn't want to make any major changes to the drivetrain.
44x28 as the lowest climbing gear for a multi-day ride is very aggressive. Even without looking at a profile of your route, I'd suggest running the largest cassette that your RD can handle, and consider running a smaller front ring like a 40T.

Personally I'd be willing to give up top-end speed on a ride like this to ensure I had enough gears for rolling hills, which become exponentially more difficult at the end of a 100 mile day.

That said, you ride a 44t with an 11-28 now, so you likely have a pretty good idea of what it is/isn't capable of.
msu2001la is offline  
Old 12-27-22, 04:16 PM
  #173  
Senior Member
 
Trakhak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 5,723
Liked 3,261 Times in 1,859 Posts
Depends on the route. Much of NJ as seen from I-95 looks fairly flat, but farther west you would encounter more demanding terrain. Same for Maryland.
Trakhak is online now  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.