Tomm Willians

Is there evidence of doping ?

rsbob 

The fact that he was so blatant points to a real dope. Rim shot.

big john

Lance made what, $20 million per year? These Zwift and Strava cheaters are just silly.

tempocyclist

It's not multi-millions, but there are some five-figure prize pools on offer for Zwift Racing (and more recently, MyWhoosh racing).

Oh and there's a virtual rainbow jersey on the line also! 😂 😂 😂



DC Rainmaker does a good write-up if anyone is interested in the cheating specifics:

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/12/...qualifier.html

RChung

Sorry. I'll try to do better.

PeteHski

Not sure about that, lol
I'm happy enough as a middling Cat C Zwift racer. The good thing about Zwift is that whatever level you are at, there are always extremely close competitors, whether genuine or not. So you just end up racing against "entities" that are closely matched to your own performance. On a good day I can get a Zwift Power podium in cat C or hang on for dear life in a cat B group peloton! I don't really have much incentive to cheat in my position of mediocrity.

Lombard

Tens shocked.

And then there is Digital EPO on Strava. LAME!!

https://cycling.today/digital-epo-ho...s-look-better/

LarrySellerz

There is a lack of roasting the UCI for promoting the idea of a Zwift e-sport with commentators and spectators in this thread.

He'd be better off motor doping in a real race, too many nerds on Zwift obsessing over numbers

PeteHski

I would say most (if not all) competitive Zwift racers are also real life racers. It would be very unusual to compete at an elite level in esports and not race outdoors. Jay Vine is a prime example i.e. esport world champion and World Tour Pro. At a much lower level all the Zwift racers I know are also keen club racers.

Koyote

Zwift isn't really racing...So how could a person cheat?

tomato coupe

It's like cheating at solitaire.

Lombard

It's like lying to yourself. Plenty of people do it.

datlas 

It's a video game that you control with your legs, so it's still a competition.

PeteHski

So if someone states in Zwift that they weigh 60 kg when they actually weigh 100 kg, that's not cheating then just because it's a virtual platform? The race may be virtual, but the cheating is still real.

TMonk

What really is racing, in your opinion? Asking as a zwift racer and outdoor racer of 14 years.

Koyote

The second thing you mentioned. You call it "outdoor racing," I call it "racing."

GhostRider62

I see Zwift as a video game run by a poor model or a very good training platform. Real racing? Not in my mind.

himespau 

Zwift has been trying to get e-Racing into the Olympics. This sure isn't going to help that mission.

himespau 

Even though I'm a similar level to you (I have a bad habit of liking 20 minute hill climb races too much, so I'm perpetually a low B even though my overall power profile, power for anything under 10 minutes or beyond ~24 minutes, and results all scream Cat C), I've played with the idea of dual recording, since I have the equipment, if for no other reason than to show I'm really putting out the power I say I am, not that anyone cares (again, incredibly low B). So far, it's seemed too much work to do it - my streaming took long enough to figure out, and that's mainly so I have recordings for races to go back to for route recon in the future and show that I'm real dude sweating and panting my ass off.

When I was a high C (or before that a high D), I cared a lot about sandbaggers and cruisers (and they do still exist with Cat Enforcement - they just have to be more careful), but have never really cared about full on cheaters (except those folks who could change their height/weight mid-race). Whether or not they're cheating to get where they are, they're all just a bunch of digital rabbits that push me to go harder than I can without someone to chase. Now, as someone hoping to be pack fodder, I care even less about people cheating in my races as I'm unlikely to see them anyway.

mschwett 

surely they require some weight verification? or it seems like the hack this guy did is far from the easiest way to cheat!!

Sy Reene

Lots of these out there:

PeteHski

Only at the highest level when money and titles are involved. There's nothing to stop the average Zwifter from lying about their weight or height to gain performance. It's the easiest cheat out there if that kind of thing floats their boat. Personally I don't think all that many people do intentionally cheat in Zwift, but there is no real consistency with trainer power calibration and relatively small errors can make a significant difference to your relative performance. For example when I upgraded my trainer last year I lost approx 5% power due to the different trainer calibration. That instantly made life much harder in my cat B group rides/races. It was like going from peak form to my lowest base level overnight. I can also considerably boost my virtual power by switching from hub power to crank power measurement (again approx +4-5% with drivetrain losses). These small percentages don't sound like much, but when you are only putting out a few hundred watts on average it can make all the difference. For me to gain 10W on FTP might take months of dedicated effort. So I don't take Zwift performances seriously at all. It's a very close field and there will always be many competitors who have an apparent advantage that is just a function of their equipment, user settings and calibration. I just try to make my own data as genuine as I can for my own sanity. In big online race events (eg. virtual Haute Route) I tend to place roughly as I do in real life i.e. top third of the overall field. So that's probably an indication that it all tends to level out if you are honest. I don't actually do very much Zwift racing as I'm a low cat B rider with no chance of winning at that level. Not getting dropped from the main group is my usual goal! If I drop to cat C I can compete, but there's nearly always someone sandbagging and technically I should be in Cat B anyway. It would be better if they actually had more categories as the difference from Cat C to B is way too big in my opinion.

genejockey 

I think the best way to approach racing on Zwift is not to take it too seriously. It's a game, there are rules which apply to everyone - so whether it models the physical universe correctly is unimportant. You play the game according to the rules of the game. In the end, if you win a race, what have you won? A little gold colored icon on Zwiftpower. If you're not being paid to do it, you should be doing it for the entertainment and the workout. If you're cheating in a game with strangers that doesn't pay you any money, there's something wrong in your head.

But, you know, "It's a game" applies to all racing for which you don't get paid.

Note the first line of my signature....

veganbikes

and probably 90% of the rest of the peloton at that time. While yes what Lance did was wrong and yes he was doping he still beat out the other dopers. Winner "none" is ridiculous if everyone was doing it and one of them beat all the others well there you have it a winner. If there was was someone who wasn't doping then I guess make them the winner and give them the jersey.

rsbob 

Let’s see. I was responding to a post of how could a person feel proud of taking the podium if they know they cheated to get there. The question was not, because everyone was doing it, was it right? It was a moral/ethical question. I am fully aware of the history of that time and what it took to win, but that was not the question or issue I was addressing. If don’t understand the difference, that is not my problem.