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Addiction 2023.1

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Addiction 2023.1

Old 01-18-23, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mojo31
In contrast, we live in a suburban/semi-rural area where cars are indispensable. Both kids had a car and keys handed to them when they hit their 16th birthday. Ride share is impractical. Walking and biking to destinations is out of the question due to traffic flows, speeds, and congestion. I live 4 miles from my office, and will not ride to work because it is not safe to do so.
agreed. it has much more to do with where you choose to live than any other single factor. to some extent the changes are more a reflection of people making different decisions about that over time than anything else.
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Old 01-18-23, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mojo31
In contrast, we live in a suburban/semi-rural area where cars are indispensable. Both kids had a car and keys handed to them when they hit their 16th birthday. Ride share is impractical. Walking and biking to destinations is out of the question due to traffic flows, speeds, and congestion. I live 4 miles from my office, and will not ride to work because it is not safe to do so.
Yep. We didn't get them at 16, but 17-18, with no nonsense (as was the fashion in certain places at the time) of "well get a job and buy yourself a car if you want" which is impossible without a car. And pointedly, mom wanted to be able to 1) stop schlepping us around and 2) hand errands off to us.

Nothing fancy; I got an old Civic with 140000 miles. Got me around and to and from college and to my first/current job though.
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Old 01-18-23, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
Oddly, I have a cousin who's about 30 and doesn't have his license. Shocked me. In Boston.
Boston is pretty friendly for a car free lifestyle. Between the T and Uber and cabs, you’re good to go.
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Old 01-18-23, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by gnome
That's about $110 - $120/year for me at current exchange rate. I'd prefer to spend that much on stroopwafels or chocolate.
It's not even really a choice. Tasty snacks always win.
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Old 01-18-23, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by datlas
I agree, but for a thrifty guy like me it’s not easy to pay $60 (soon to be $80) for something that initially was free.

#BaitAndSwitch
There is a history of companies starting out offering free, or cheap services which aren't sufficient to pay the bills, and then suffering through a painful transition - and often not making it - as they try to make it profitable.

There used to be a company called Webvan. They would bring groceries to your door - just go online and order, and they'd show up within an hour or so. Their prices were very competitive, and their meat and produce were top notch, and their delivery service was prompt. They did a lot of business! All of it at a loss. When they tried to transition to making a profit, the quality went down, the prices went up, and the turnaround on delivery went up. And they lost most of their customers, and went out of business. Nobody wanted to pay more for the same or lower quality, delivered hours later.

The model of starting out with a free service and eat the cost, to get people used to, or even dependent on your service, then start charging them for it is a big problem, because people end up resenting paying for something that used to be free, almost as if it were something they deserve. I'm pretty sure most of us won't give our services away for free, and would resent being asked to. So, I don't mind paying for Strava, since I make use of the service. There are other such companies that started out free and then tried to do the switch, and I decided to stop using the service because it wasn't worth it to me, but I didn't resent them - not for long anyway - for it.
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Old 01-18-23, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Mojo31
In contrast, we live in a suburban/semi-rural area where cars are indispensable. Both kids had a car and keys handed to them when they hit their 16th birthday. Ride share is impractical. Walking and biking to destinations is out of the question due to traffic flows, speeds, and congestion. I live 4 miles from my office, and will not ride to work because it is not safe to do so.
My older kid could not wait to get her license, and had it within days of her 16th b-day. I expected my younger one to follow the same path, but she didn't get it until after she was 18, just a short time before leaving for college. I started teaching both of them to drive at 12yo. The younger one waiting especially surprised me because she has always been much more of a "car person" than my older one, including being a big F1 fan and regularly playing driving video games (complete with a decent steering wheel and pedals setup). I have found that a surprising amount of the younger one's friends also delayed getting their DLs.

My office is a 10 min walk from home. If I don't catch a red light at the one signal I go through, the drive is less than 2 minutes. I drive to my office every day because I often have to make trips during the day to places that are not practical to walk or ride to.
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Old 01-18-23, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets
That Mooney is amazing indeed, too bad it's a cm or two above my upper limit for frame size
It's perfect for me. But it's pink
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Old 01-18-23, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
Oddly, I have a cousin who's about 30 and doesn't have his license. Shocked me. In Boston.
We have a friend who is in his early 40s and doesn’t have a license. Also in Boston. We have several friends in NYC who don’t have licenses as well.
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Old 01-18-23, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by seedsbelize2
It's perfect for me. But it's pink
Pink just adds value to me. I sold my only pink bike a couple of years ago, and I'm due for another! It's actually close to the upper end of my size range, it might work depending on TT length...
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Old 01-18-23, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
Yep. We didn't get them at 16, but 17-18, with no nonsense (as was the fashion in certain places at the time) of "well get a job and buy yourself a car if you want" which is impossible without a car. And pointedly, mom wanted to be able to 1) stop schlepping us around and 2) hand errands off to us.

Nothing fancy; I got an old Civic with 140000 miles. Got me around and to and from college and to my first/current job though.
We told each kid they would get a new car at 16, and they had to make it last because there would be no other. Also, it would be their down payment when they wanted something new down the road. Daughter got a Nissan Rogue and son got a Mazda 3, neither of which cost more than $20k.

The thing was that not only did it take the driving off of me and mom when the kids needed to be somewhere, it was also less expensive due to the cost of insuring them on the cars my wife and I drove at the time.

It worked. Daughter traded the Rogue for a RDX when she finished grad school. Son got a new car in his sophomore year of college because someone rear ended him and totaled the 3. He got a new 3 because the used/new price differential was so low. He still drives the 3 and has no plans to trade it anytime soon.

One thing we did that really worked well for us was that we enrolled both in a defensive driving course on steroids that taught a lot about vehicle dynamics, making ABS work for you, and high-speed avoidance maneuvers. It was an 8-hour course with almost all of that in seat time. Best investment in those kids that I've ever made.
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Old 01-18-23, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rjones28
It's not even really a choice. Tasty snacks always win.
Indeed. Regardless, I went the cheep route for my caffeinated coffee choice yesterday, might start looking at a WSJ subscription.

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Old 01-18-23, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by phrantic09
Boston is pretty friendly for a car free lifestyle. Between the T and Uber and cabs, you’re good to go.
Well they're in Marblehead, which I suspect has less.
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Old 01-18-23, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bampilot06
looks like they were better off never taking the money. It’s a shame they went after the users. Seems like to me, since it’s been dubbed “the official” record keeper for everyone, they should have gotten involved with events and marketed more towards big companies and got them to pay to have access to the users. Just my thought.

I have a feeling, with the latest 1/4 earnings they are going to make the whole platform subscription based and they will fail.

Knowing what I know now, I don’t see how I would ever pay. It’s unfortunate because I for one like strava a lot, but how could I pay knowing at any moment the rug will be pulled out from underneath them.
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Old 01-18-23, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
There is a history of companies starting out offering free, or cheap services which aren't sufficient to pay the bills, and then suffering through a painful transition - and often not making it - as they try to make it profitable.
Yep. Mind, I don't resent Strava exactly, I just have that hard mental break where I'm willing to deal with a lot more imperfections for free than when they ask me to fork over even a single dollar. Once we do that I want a certain level of professionalism, and having bike rides beating my run KOMs is over that line. Especially since they're clearly not even interested in solving the problem.
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Old 01-18-23, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by phrantic09
Boston is pretty friendly for a car free lifestyle. Between the T and Uber and cabs, you’re good to go.
In looking for places to move to in Pittsburgh, you see a distinct "layering" of neighborhoods. At the center, you find the oldest neighborhoods where you barely need a car and owning one is actually a chore, since you won't have a garage. A lot farther out, there are the car-dependent suburbs built after WWII, where every house has an attached garage, and the business districts are separated from the houses so you really NEED a car to get around. Often there aren't even sidewalks.

For us, the sweet spot seems to be in between those, the neighborhoods built between 1900 and 1940, which often feature an alley between the streets, and a garage or parking pad off the alley. These places are often walkable, with enough stores that you COULD get by without a car, but having one would be advantageous.

It's really the history of urban/suburban development writ large.
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Old 01-18-23, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Mojo31
We told each kid they would get a new car at 16, and they had to make it last because there would be no other. Also, it would be their down payment when they wanted something new down the road. Daughter got a Nissan Rogue and son got a Mazda 3, neither of which cost more than $20k.

The thing was that not only did it take the driving off of me and mom when the kids needed to be somewhere, it was also less expensive due to the cost of insuring them on the cars my wife and I drove at the time.

It worked. Daughter traded the Rogue for a RDX when she finished grad school. Son got a new car in his sophomore year of college because someone rear ended him and totaled the 3. He got a new 3 because the used/new price differential was so low. He still drives the 3 and has no plans to trade it anytime soon.

One thing we did that really worked well for us was that we enrolled both in a defensive driving course on steroids that taught a lot about vehicle dynamics, making ABS work for you, and high-speed avoidance maneuvers. It was an 8-hour course with almost all of that in seat time. Best investment in those kids that I've ever made.
That's a good method.

And in that investment vein, I really want to do the Bridgestone Winter Driving School up in Steamboat next year. Growing up in the northeast I can handle it, but I'm curious to see the large extent even further I'm sure I'm missing. At worst, not a bad vacation.
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Old 01-18-23, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
Yep. Mind, I don't resent Strava exactly, I just have that hard mental break where I'm willing to deal with a lot more imperfections for free than when they ask me to fork over even a single dollar. Once we do that I want a certain level of professionalism, and having bike rides beating my run KOMs is over that line. Especially since they're clearly not even interested in solving the problem.
Where I live, I'm never in any danger of scoring a KOM, and I don't really compare myself with other riders, so it's not a problem. But I'm a professional data junkie, so I find their accumulation of data, and the small amount of analysis available to be useful. And compared to other things I pay for, it's relatively cheap.
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Old 01-18-23, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by rjones28
Do you pay to watch TV?
I don’t watch much but of course it’s free over-the-air. We have a Netflix and Hulu account for “premium” channels but regular network news etc is free.
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Old 01-18-23, 01:44 PM
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For paying Strava users, do you get to see more than 100 photos?

I had a paid account for a year, but that was before I had 100 photos on Strava.
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Old 01-18-23, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mschwett
but interestingly, labor force participation for the 16-24 group went up from 45 to 51 percent between 2010 and 2019 after years of decline. it could be that people are simply delaying car ownership, as they've delayed (but not stopped) having kids. they're still working, but they're getting there other ways or working remotely?

i would like to believe that americans are becoming less dependent on cars to get to and from work and basic shopping, school, etc, but unfortunately the pandemic has made a huge dent in what was 20 years of positive movement away from auto dependence.
That's the biggest reason I have for not visiting. Auto dependence. And getting insured for one or two weeks. It's just nuts. My wife is willing to jump through those hoops, for the grandson. I am not. I get around by bicycle when I am there. And catch rides with others.
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Old 01-18-23, 01:56 PM
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Congrats to Catherine O'Hara on her Icon Award from the Academy of Canadian Film and Television.

Also non-Porsche non-ass of the day.

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Old 01-18-23, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
That's a good method.

And in that investment vein, I really want to do the Bridgestone Winter Driving School up in Steamboat next year. Growing up in the northeast I can handle it, but I'm curious to see the large extent even further I'm sure I'm missing. At worst, not a bad vacation.
I took the AMG Driving Academy "Performance" course at COTA in Dec. 2019. That was a lot of fun and learned a lot. Nothing more butt puckering than driving a $200,000 car at well over 100 mph. Program Levels - AMG Driving Academy | Mercedes-Benz (amgacademy.com).

I'd really like to do one of the Porsche intermediate courses at their track in Birmingham. Going to have to do it soon, though, as age forever marches forward.

This is what we made the kids take before they got their cars: Skills Teen Driving School - Skills Teen | Total Driving Experience
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Old 01-18-23, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets
For paying Strava users, do you get to see more than 100 photos?

I had a paid account for a year, but that was before I had 100 photos on Strava.
Beats me, but I have to have over a hundred by now.

Edit: I’m guessing not because I only show exactly 100 photos and I probably upload at least that many every year.
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Old 01-18-23, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by BillyD
My goal is to make it to 85, like my dad, RIP. I'm not sure I'm going to make it. Oh well.
My goal is 80. Both my parents made it to 92, and they were both heavily medicated for their last dozen years or so. I am highly resistant to daily pill popping.
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Old 01-18-23, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets
For paying Strava users, do you get to see more than 100 photos?
Who has 100+ photos worth scrolling through on Strava?
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People here don't get it.
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