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Two biomechanists on a bike fit gave me opposite opinions, who is right?

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Two biomechanists on a bike fit gave me opposite opinions, who is right?

Old 01-04-23, 11:26 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
You're so far behind the times ...
So insulting. You can do much better.
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Old 01-04-23, 12:14 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
And unfortunately, regardless of the amount of experts consulted and advice provided when you first start cycling, I strongly believe that you can't ''get it right the first time''. The more you ride, the better you become but the ''pickier'' you become as well in terms of what specific dimensions you like.
Amen! Even the best fit is only "correct" with respect to a specific point in time, especially for road bikes. Further riding means further adjustments. Which is why Surpin should not buy a first road bike with internal cable and/or hose routing through the stem and the steerer.

Surpin got to go test ride actual bikes. Before I bought my first road bike, I was extensively measured by an REI mechanic who set up two adjacent sizes of the same model, and further adjusted the saddle after each of multiple short test rides, to help me choose the right size for my first road bike. After buying and further adjusting that first road bike, I now have the knowledge about how other frames would or would not fit me.
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Old 01-04-23, 12:17 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
There are actually two aspects to this conundrum:-

1. The actual bike fit i.e. the positional relationship between the contact points (saddle, bars and pedals).
2. Bike handling - which is related to the specific bike model and size geometry i.e. head angle, trail, wheelbase, chain stay length, BB height, stiffness etc

Unfortunately, the stationary fitting bike doesn't tell you anything about the second aspect. So you can have multiple bikes that fit you identically, but handle quite differently out on the road.
Exactly! Not to mention that OP said that OP is an absolute beginner, and so may not even naturally ride a stationary fitting bike, thus resulting in a less than ideal fit. That is why OP must test ride real bikes.
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Old 01-04-23, 12:58 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
So insulting. You can do much better.
That happens sometimes, AFTER someone makes comments that suggest I'm ignorant or clueless. I only posted responses to the OP, intended to help the OP. A couple of regular posters are stalkers, waiting to pounce. They do the opposite and only criticize other posters, trying to help. They could write a counterpoint without the included insults.

Using frame size numbers and letters is way behind the times, IMO. They mean nothing, in most cases. Stack and reach will correctly indicate the fit. Yes, reach must be corrected to the same stack height, but it's done correctly by subtracting 3mm from the smaller frame's reach, for each 10mm of stack height difference. That assumes that spacers are added to the smaller frame. This does not make reach values worthless.
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Old 01-04-23, 01:34 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir View Post
Amen! Even the best fit is only "correct" with respect to a specific point in time, especially for road bikes. Further riding means further adjustments. Which is why Surpin should not buy a first road bike with internal cable and/or hose routing through the stem and the steerer.

Surpin got to go test ride actual bikes. Before I bought my first road bike, I was extensively measured by an REI mechanic who set up two adjacent sizes of the same model, and further adjusted the saddle after each of multiple short test rides, to help me choose the right size for my first road bike. After buying and further adjusting that first road bike, I now have the knowledge about how other frames would or would not fit me.
Unluckly, if I intend to buy used, I basically have to look for a recent carbon bike, with some good specs. The reason being: quality-price ratio is terrible in the used market, where I live, for aluminium bikes or bikes with lower specs. The same goes for older bikes, owners don't mitigate the price that much and I don't feel like buying a too old used bike anyway.

The problem with used bikes is: I'll almost never have a possibility of doing a good ride test with private owners. The reason is that bikes are sold extremely quickly here. So, there won't be much time to organize the test and even if there was, it would be unpractical to do, because:
1) the bike will statistically be very far from me;
2) to do an actually sensible test, I should regulate the saddle, change the stem on their bike, and so on.. unrealistic to say the least.
t would also be an unsusual request and it is more likely that the owner won't agree rather than the opposite (why would they even take the hassle of it if bikes are sold so easily here without such requests?).

With bike retailers that sell used bikes, there are similar problems:
1) the shop will statistically be far from me;
2) they still sell them so quickly and by the time we organize they'll have sold the bike. For instance, exactly today, 30 minutes ago, they told me the 54 sized Scott has been sold, while I was trying to get a grasp of the geometries issues of the post. I needed time to carefully consider consider the bike, which took me two days, and it has already been sold in the meanwhile. This happened last week as well.

So, for used market, no test ride will be ever realistically possible.

Another option is new entry-level aluminium bikes, the con with this is that for the same price I could get a better equipped carbon bike in the used pool.

I am thinking I should have gone for the Scott maybe trusting my bike fitter.. or maybe I saved myself from a too large frame. I don't know.
Anyway, if I want to ride a bike, I think next time I'll have to take my chanceswithout the luxury of taking too much time to think.

Or is there another way I am not seeing? What should I do?
I am looking at used bikes on a popular website in my country, and I am following these rules:
1) If sold by a private, I want to go take the bike in person to check it before. If by a shop, I can trust their shipping
2) Recent bike, good specs, keep an eye on resale value in case of erroneous choice.
3) Negotiate unbalanced prices. If a reasonable negotiation fails, I move one, even if the bike would be good for my needs.

Surely, if I relaxed the 3rd rule, I would much more easily get the bike. It has been two months since I have started my research and I begin to feel some exhaustion and that the time I'm dedicating is getting out of hand.

What would you suggest me? How should I proceed?
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Old 01-04-23, 01:50 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Surpin View Post
What would you suggest me? How should I proceed?
Follow the advice of your fitter. If you buy a used bike and it doesn't fit as expected, sell it and buy another.
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Old 01-04-23, 01:51 PM
  #57  
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If that 1400 is pounds sterling, that appears to be about right on the bicycle blue book estimate for that bike if it's in excellent shape (lots of people think they overestimate values because they also sell used bikes). Only looks like ~350 pounds less than it cost new, which doesn't seem like much of a discount for a used bike, but scarcity could be an issue.
https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/valu...tion=VERY_GOOD
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Old 01-04-23, 02:01 PM
  #58  
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I'd follow the manufacturer's recommendation and get the 52 Scott, if that's what you like. You have to start somewhere. A smaller frame can be adjusted to the same fit as the next larger size, but the opposite can't usually be done. If looking at other brands, just look for the most similar stack and reach.

Once you're more experienced, you can look directly for your preferred stack, then compare the reach on prospective frames. Some brands have a longer reach across the board.
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Old 01-04-23, 05:26 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Surpin View Post
Also, as it was asked, I am an absolute beginner, so this would be my first bike and I have no prior experience on what I would like or feel better as a ride posture, nor previous bikes to take as means of comparison.
If I were you - a total beginner - I'd discuss this idea with your fitters: given the fit they're recommending, which frame gives you the most adjustability in the future, since that is pretty likely to change as your cycling preferences, and cycling fitness/flexibility changes. Talk about what happens if you have to go higher and lower with the handlebars and/or saddle and forward and rearward with the saddle or handlebars.

There's quite a bit of adjustability for all this stuff, but things can be limited by things such as head tube length (for handlebar height) and seat tube angle (for saddle setback)
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Old 01-04-23, 09:40 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
That happens sometimes, AFTER someone makes comments that suggest I'm ignorant or clueless. I only posted responses to the OP, intended to help the OP. A couple of regular posters are stalkers, waiting to pounce. They do the opposite and only criticize other posters, trying to help. They could write a counterpoint without the included insults.

Using frame size numbers and letters is way behind the times, IMO. They mean nothing, in most cases. Stack and reach will correctly indicate the fit. Yes, reach must be corrected to the same stack height, but it's done correctly by subtracting 3mm from the smaller frame's reach, for each 10mm of stack height difference. That assumes that spacers are added to the smaller frame. This does not make reach values worthless.
Appreciate the clarification. I understand your rationale.

AFAIC, there are far too many attacks and counter attacks on what most consider a hobby, not that personal attacks are ever acceptable. There will always be egos that feel the need to diminish others to increase their own sense of self worth, but mentoring and fact based instruction will pay them far greater dividends.
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Old 01-05-23, 03:22 AM
  #61  
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I'm your height. My first bike was 54cm. The chart stated it should fit When I got it fitted after the purchase the fitter said it was the right size. It never felt right and I spent money trying to make it fit--short stem, zero offset seat, shorter cranks, and narrower handlebars. Even after those changes It never felt right. I don't know who your fitter is, but unless you have simian arms the reach will be too long and you'll be stretching with shoulder pain. I'd go with a 52 or even a 51. I ride a 49 which should be too small based on the charts but it is the most comfortable bike I've owned, including 53 and 52cm bikes.
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Old 01-05-23, 10:07 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Surpin View Post
What would you suggest me? How should I proceed?
Buy a new bike from a lower tier group that meets whatever your budget is for a used bike.

Getting the highest tier stuff on your bike isn't going to make you faster or a better cyclist. Mid tier level components are arguably more durable and longer lasting than the high tiers and low tiers. High tiers are for weight savings made with expensive and light materials that can handle the intended use. Along with a little bit of better performance for their functionality. But not much compared to the mid tier groups.

I'd think if you look hard you'll be able to find a new bike with mid-tier Shimano on it in Tiagra or 105. And I wouldn't turn my nose up at Sora either if it got me an entry level bike I could get some experience on. IMO, a bike shouldn't be your forever bike. Ride it for a few years and then pass it on to another when you find that you are better than the bike and it can't do any more for you.
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Old 01-05-23, 10:59 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Buy a new bike from a lower tier group that meets whatever your budget is for a used bike.

Getting the highest tier stuff on your bike isn't going to make you faster or a better cyclist. Mid tier level components are arguably more durable and longer lasting than the high tiers and low tiers. High tiers are for weight savings made with expensive and light materials that can handle the intended use. Along with a little bit of better performance for their functionality. But not much compared to the mid tier groups.

I'd think if you look hard you'll be able to find a new bike with mid-tier Shimano on it in Tiagra or 105. And I wouldn't turn my nose up at Sora either if it got me an entry level bike I could get some experience on. IMO, a bike shouldn't be your forever bike. Ride it for a few years and then pass it on to another when you find that you are better than the bike and it can't do any more for you.
The Addict Disc 20 is a 105 bike.
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Old 01-05-23, 11:36 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
Appreciate the clarification. I understand your rationale.
But, the rationale is that he thinks he's justified insulting someone else that "makes comments that suggest I'm ignorant or clueless", when it was really just someone with more experience disagreeing with one or more of his statements while giving very sound advice.
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Old 01-05-23, 12:54 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
The Addict Disc 20 is a 105 bike.
Most of the Addict 20's I've looked at on Scott's forum were Ultegra or a SRAM groupset.

This is a Scott Addict 20 from a previous season that is on their website.

https://www.scott-sports.com/us/en/p...e-carbon-black

Not sure what your point is though. Scott makes Addicts in many different configurations with most all of Shimano's and SRAM's mid and upper tier components.

If the OP does decide to look for a new bike, then Scott probably won't be an option for them as IMO, Scott is a upper tier bike regardless of what tier components are on it.
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Old 01-05-23, 01:21 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Most of the Addict 20's I've looked at on Scott's forum were Ultegra or a SRAM groupset.

This is a Scott Addict 20 from a previous season that is on their website.

https://www.scott-sports.com/us/en/p...e-carbon-black

Not sure what your point is though. Scott makes Addicts in many different configurations with most all of Shimano's and SRAM's mid and upper tier components.

If the OP does decide to look for a new bike, then Scott probably won't be an option for them as IMO, Scott is a upper tier bike regardless of what tier components are on it.
That's a much higher end Addict Disc 20 than the 2020 model I saw. My point was that you were telling him he should be looking at a lower end bike like a 105/Tiagra bike and and the version of the bike I saw already was a 105 bike (at a price I thought was too high for a 3 year old used 105 bike but maybe the market where OP lives is weird), so it seemed you were telling him to look at the bike he was already looking at.
https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/valu...tion=VERY_GOOD
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Old 01-05-23, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
That happens sometimes, AFTER someone makes comments that suggest I'm ignorant or clueless. I only posted responses to the OP, intended to help the OP. A couple of regular posters are stalkers, waiting to pounce. They do the opposite and only criticize other posters, trying to help. They could write a counterpoint without the included insults.

Using frame size numbers and letters is way behind the times, IMO. They mean nothing, in most cases. Stack and reach will correctly indicate the fit. Yes, reach must be corrected to the same stack height, but it's done correctly by subtracting 3mm from the smaller frame's reach, for each 10mm of stack height difference. That assumes that spacers are added to the smaller frame. This does not make reach values worthless.
But I didn't suggest you were ignorant or clueless, but that the recent trend of people riding very small frames is simply bizarre. You decided to take that observation personally.

And then when I demonstrated that bicycle manufacturers design their frame geometries around the average proportion for heights, you insulted me. But I was pointing out a fact - that's how they do it.

You're an unpleasant person who thinks that anyone who disagrees with you is insulting you. I hope you don't drink.
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Old 01-06-23, 01:21 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Surpin View Post
The problem with used bikes is: I'll almost never have a possibility of doing a good ride test with private owners. The reason is that bikes are sold extremely quickly here. So, there won't be much time to organize the test and even if there was, it would be unpractical to do, because:
1) the bike will statistically be very far from me;
2) to do an actually sensible test, I should regulate the saddle, change the stem on their bike, and so on.. unrealistic to say the least.
t would also be an unsusual request and it is more likely that the owner won't agree rather than the opposite (why would they even take the hassle of it if bikes are sold so easily here without such requests?).

With bike retailers that sell used bikes, there are similar problems:
1) the shop will statistically be far from me;
2) they still sell them so quickly and by the time we organize they'll have sold the bike. For instance, exactly today, 30 minutes ago, they told me the 54 sized Scott has been sold, while I was trying to get a grasp of the geometries issues of the post. I needed time to carefully consider consider the bike, which took me two days, and it has already been sold in the meanwhile. This happened last week as well.

So, for used market, no test ride will be ever realistically possible.
Test ride bikes that are available in person at shops accessible to you, whether new or used, whether in your price range or above/below, then use that fit information to inform your purchase. No need to limit your test rides to bikes you're actually considering, while you figure out what you need.
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Old 01-06-23, 08:49 AM
  #69  
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Your legs are long for your height. My wife is 57 and rides a level top tube 54. A Modern 54 is close enough and if the price of a new Scott is not a stretch, go for it. But if I were you Id rent first.
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Old 01-06-23, 11:17 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
Your legs are long for your height. My wife is 57 and rides a level top tube 54. A Modern 54 is close enough and if the price of a new Scott is not a stretch, go for it. But if I were you Id rent first.
If one's legs are long for a given height compared to an average person of the same height, then one's torso is likely shorter than average, which means one needs a smaller frame, right?
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Old 01-06-23, 02:02 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir View Post
If one's legs are long for a given height compared to an average person of the same height, then one's torso is likely shorter than average, which means one needs a smaller frame, right?
Depends how long their arms are and their back and neck flexibility. Not to mention their personal preferences for ride position and bike handling traits. So I dont think broad generalisations are all that useful for an individual bike fit.
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Old 01-06-23, 02:14 PM
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@Surpin This is your first bike. If the weather is nice, get the first 54 you like at a price you are comfortable with. After 10,000k of riding and agonizing over higher, lower, shorter, longer, bigger, smaller, taller, etc., you will make changes. Many of us go back and forth. Your body is very capable of adapting to many positions that once felt extreme. If the weather is not riding weather, keep researching.
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