If those things are challenging for you then fair enough. But for most people they are trivial. Using an App for setup is optional too, at least with SRAM.

All that scratchin' is makin' me itch.

i rode my di2 bike thousands of miles before looking at the app, and have actually never changed anything. no OS updates or anything to worry about. it is entirely optional once the bike is put together - and might even be optional then depending on the setup. i wonder if the people railing against the complexity of di2/axs have ever actually used such a bike. you literally don’t have to do anything except charge the battery every few months.

you just get on the bike and ride it, like any other bike. except it always shifts perfectly.

:popcorn

I will be drawing the line at, "I can't ride my bike today because it won't connect to the internet." We're not there yet, but it's coming soon (probably).

All my bikes are still mechanical shifting, but I've been shopping for an AXS upgrade for my MTB. I would like to go Di2 for my road bike, but that's a bigger challenge since it's currently Campy. My gravel bike, however, will probably stay mechanical.

The only time I needed the SRAM AP was to configure the 12 speed AXS Blipbox to use on a 11 Speed Etap rig. Otherwise, never needed it. The old etap blipbox had fragile connectors. Yes, I broke one

Geez, hope not.

Why? I think e-shifting may be more beneficial for the more challenging terrain in gravel riding than for road riding. E-shifting is also cheaper for 1X. And if the road bike snaps a RD shift cable, I can call my wife or Uber XL. If the gravel bike snaps a RD shift cable, I may have to walk a while before I can get a ride.

Because upgrading to Di2 would cost more than I paid for the bike - lol. When/if I change my MTB to e-shift, maybe I will change my mind about how much I need it on my gravel bike.

Yep, I've got Di2 Dura-Ace, but if I had the choice between Di2 Ultegra or mechanical Dura-Ace, I'd take the Dura-Ace.

It's pretty cool in a couple of ways, ie working flawlessly with no maintenance, and nifty features like synchro and programmable buttons, but like I tried to assert earlier, it's also missing something.

I thought I made a half-decent attempt at trying to explain it with the tactile purity thing, but folks only wanted to quibble. But I'm fairly sure anyone actually wanting to understand can get the gist.

My 9070 bike is pretty damn sweet; I went the hack on a 2006 frame to hide Di2 inside it all the way, with cable hangers all shaved. But I'd actually prefer 9000 on a frame as nice as mine (the first ISP TCR), with internal cable routing, properly implemented.

I was a mechanic for a while, and I can tell you that last part - not very much of a thing, unfortunately. Plenty of half-alright, and a bit of downright terrible out there, not a whole lot of proper to be had when it comes to internal cable routing.

That's a big selling point for electronic, one of the best reasons - otherwise high performance bike totally let down by corners cut inside. Looking squarely at you, first generation Propel.

For what it’s worth- you can grab 105Di2 complete groupset at Lordgun for $1258

I use the phone app every time I take my bike off of the trainer to re-index for my wheels. 3 pushes of an arrow and it’s all set. If I forget I can do it while riding and never get off the bike- can’t do that with mechanical.

The problem I have with the tactile feel argument is that there's nothing particularly great about the tactile feel of a road brifter. Moving to electronic shifting just highlighted to me how naff it is to have a floppy brake lever. You might just be able to sell me on a mechanical mtb trigger shifter, or even an old-school indexed DF shifter, but even then the click of a shifter is not something that really enhances my biking experience. So I'll take that loss (if that's what we are calling it) over the hassle of cables.

Or you could get a Camapgnolo Chorus groupset for the same price, that will shift just as well, work just as well, might last longer and be over one pound lighter.

I've built and serviced a few Di2 bikes over the past year and they are pretty sweet. The older 'wired' kit is a bit of a pain in the ass to build as there are far more wires than there are cables in a mech system but not to big a deal.
Setting them up...adjusting the derailleurs...is about the same whether electronic or mech...just a different method of adjusting.
Once set up electronic is sweet...just a light touch of the lever, front or rear, and the shift is made. A nice mechanical system also requires a light touch but no where near what an electronic system is like. The mech front der though still does require more force than just the light touch of the electronic.
I've not had to replace any electronic parts due to failure...just adjustment here and there...and generally once set up you don't have to touch them again even updates are generally not needed unless there is a problem of some sort the update may 'fix'.
I've not noticed many 'during event' failures or problems though one of my friends had a complete failure of his 10 speed Di2 system just before a race. He whined about how it sucked and electronic was awful but it turned out he never charged his battery since buying the bike...used but very nice...he said he forgot all about it but he is forgiven as he is a complete luddite and doesn't even have wifi or cable at his home and just bought his 'first' cell phone last year lol. Since then he has never had another problem.
My bike...'22 Aethos...runs Ultegra mech, even brakes. This is because I had the parts and didn't want to spend the money on Di2. If I had the ready cash I'd switch over to Di2 but not likely as my bike weights 15.3lbs with mech and the money spent will be better used for 'getaways'.
Enjoy and ride what you have...

Except his comment was specifically about Di2 costing more than his bike and that it is something he’s interested in. I don’t have a problem with people that prefer mechanical, just stop ******g preaching at those of us who like electronic

I just do it from the lever in 3 seconds but as long as the derailleur hanger isn't bent, I can't recall ever needing to adjust. It does take almost 1 second longer than a barrel adjuster, so, advantage to mechanical

Writing as someone who has both, I'd say more accurately, I'd call them market changes, not upgrades. I will give you that "many (maybe even most) people think they are both..." But that doesn't mean they are both universally and objectively better. Especially in the case of electronic shifting, less so for discs.

"Not quite" for other than pro riders? I don't think that many or most riders experience a meaningful deficiency with rim brakes, at least outside the MTB sector. And virtually none when it comes to shifting.

For some riders under some circumstances, certainly. But I'm not even sure that pro riders had meaningful, competitive problems with rim brakes and manual shifting for the most part (certainly sometimes though).

Absolutely. And that's why the market change is succeeding. Especially hydraulic discs are sought by a lot of riders, probably all MTB riders and a bunch of road riders. And I chose to get a bike with both.

And that value/price/weight value is sometimes actually worth it because of improved function. But I think that often (usually?) people want it just because it's the "latest and greatest" (electronic shifting especially, discs sometimes too). But also often, especially in the case of discs, most riders get them just because it's getting to be all that's available nowadays. Success of the market change (I won't blame it on the nefarious "big bike" but just a change in market driven by Big Bike and the consumer).

All those factors applied to my purchase a couple of years ago. I wanted to try the latest/greatest (electronic) and I'd never tried hydraulic discs even though I'd never felt a need for them, so I wanted to try them. Finally the bike I wanted only came with discs.

They're both great, but didn't at all address any deficiency that I've ever experienced personally. I think this applies to the great majority of riders.

While I would agree (especially for shifting), there doesn't need to be a deficiency to benefit from an improvement. Most technical things improve incrementally over time and bicycles are no exception. Electronic shifting is just a refinement of the derailleur drivetrain. Hydraulic disc brakes are a little more than that, but that's off-topic and been flogged to death many times!

Take it easy, pal.

I found this.
I thought it was cool.
Electronic shifting for the C&V

That's like putting a pork sausage on a vegan entree.

That would make a vegan entree better, obviously.

Di3 will tell you, loudly, to clean your derailleur.

Di3.1 will let you turn that off. :p

I don't think that a campy chorus will be longer lasting that shimano 105, this is a just personal opinion.