Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Do you ride on roads with no dedicated bike lane?

Notices
Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

Do you ride on roads with no dedicated bike lane?

Old 03-15-23, 10:30 PM
  #101  
Eric F 
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 5,593

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3436 Post(s)
Liked 5,494 Times in 2,602 Posts
I have had a shockingly different experience (for me) with bike lakes over the past few days. I'm currently vacationing in an area of Orange County, CA with a lot of wide, multi-lane streets that also include a generous bike lane. The bike lanes are generally pretty clean, too (how does this happen??). Of course, not every road in the area is like this, but it's a very different experience from my area of So Cal. Very different. There are also excellent paved bike trails that go for dozens of miles, are clean, safe, and have nice scenery.




All that said, my rides that took me on these calm, safe paths/lanes also included segments that were more busy and narrow than the pic in the OP. However, I knew what I was getting myself into, and I'm comfortable in that environment.

Last edited by Eric F; 03-16-23 at 01:22 PM.
Eric F is offline  
Likes For Eric F:
Old 03-15-23, 10:41 PM
  #102  
Polaris OBark
ignominious poltroon
 
Polaris OBark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 2,842
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1626 Post(s)
Liked 2,435 Times in 1,289 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
The worst cycling roads I've seen were in rural Missouri around the lake of the Ozarks no shoulders and rumble strips along the edge.
My sister moved there. I was wondering if it would be a good place to bring my bike if I visit. Thanks for saving me from a PITA.
Polaris OBark is offline  
Old 03-15-23, 11:03 PM
  #103  
mschwett 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,593

Bikes: aethos, creo, vanmoof, public ...

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 947 Post(s)
Liked 1,041 Times in 557 Posts
Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
ÖThe bike lanes are generally pretty clean, too (how does this happen??)Ö
our bike lanes are swept just like the streets are, once or twice a week. many of them donít have a divider so the regular street sweeper picks it up. the ones with curbs or other barriers are swept by a smaller sweeper.


__________________
mschwett is offline  
Old 03-16-23, 12:43 AM
  #104  
Eric F 
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 5,593

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3436 Post(s)
Liked 5,494 Times in 2,602 Posts
Originally Posted by mschwett View Post
our bike lanes are swept just like the streets are, once or twice a week. many of them donít have a divider so the regular street sweeper picks it up. the ones with curbs or other barriers are swept by a smaller sweeper.


In my 'hood, the maintenance part of the equation doesn't happen.
__________________
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
Eric F is offline  
Likes For Eric F:
Old 03-16-23, 10:14 AM
  #105  
SoSmellyAir
Method to My Madness
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 2,690

Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata GRX

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1380 Post(s)
Liked 943 Times in 685 Posts
Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
I have had a shockingly different experience (for me) with bike lakes over the past few days. I'm currently vacationing in an area of Orange County, CA with a lot of wide, multi-lane streets that also include a generous bike lane.
I am fortunate to live and bike here. If I had been living anywhere else, I probably would not have resumed cycling after a hiatus which started in my late teens.

Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
The bike lanes are generally pretty clean, too (how does this happen??).
Direct answer: street sweepers; indirect answer: property taxes.

Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
... also excellent paved bike trails that go for dozens of miles, are clean, safe, and have nice scenery.
But these excellent MUPs also contain inattentive pedestrians, dog walkers, cycling children, teens on e-bikes, people riding Onewheel // Future Motion while texting, and the occasional peloton. I have had more close calls on these MUPs than out on the on-road bike lanes, and I am fairly sure that I am in the bottom quartile (speed wise) among local road cyclists.
SoSmellyAir is offline  
Old 03-16-23, 11:04 AM
  #106  
Zaskar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 724
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 445 Post(s)
Liked 252 Times in 139 Posts
Originally Posted by Calsun View Post
The statement about those who "refuse to use public transportation" makes a number of false assumptions.
I caught the part where you attempted a politically-biased history of the U.S. transportation system... but I missed the part where you explained my false assumptions.

Note: If you do explain it, remember that quote (since you like Franklin's, I figured you'd like one from Twain) - "I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead."
Zaskar is offline  
Old 03-16-23, 12:06 PM
  #107  
mschwett 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,593

Bikes: aethos, creo, vanmoof, public ...

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 947 Post(s)
Liked 1,041 Times in 557 Posts
Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir View Post
Ö indirect answer: property taxes.
correct answer - a mix of various taxes and use fees, ranging from the gas tax, vehicle registration, sales taxes, and parcel taxes.

property tax is far from the majority of this funding. itís hard to find the actual numbers, and they vary by county, but gas and sales tax are generally the largest.

The majority of the money comes from taxes and fees paid directly by drivers and transit users. For example, the state raises substantial money for local roads from its fuel taxes and a vehicle registration fee. User fees at the local level include transit fares and tolls. In addition to user fees, both the state and local governments raise revenue from general taxes that have no relationship to transportation system use, such as parcel taxes, hotel taxes, and, especially, from sales taxes.
__________________
mschwett is offline  
Old 03-16-23, 12:39 PM
  #108  
SoSmellyAir
Method to My Madness
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 2,690

Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata GRX

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1380 Post(s)
Liked 943 Times in 685 Posts
Originally Posted by mschwett View Post
correct answer - a mix of various taxes and use fees, ranging from the gas tax, vehicle registration, sales taxes, and parcel taxes.

property tax is far from the majority of this funding. itís hard to find the actual numbers, and they vary by county, but gas and sales tax are generally the largest.
I had not meant to say that property taxes are the sole source of funding for street maintenance.

Orange County, CA Sales Tax Rate - Sales Taxes By County - March 2023 (sales-taxes.com)

But at least in Orange County, gas tax is the same for the entire county (I think?), and sales taxes are higher in the less affluent areas, and the streets are only as well maintained as described by Eric F in the more affluent parts of the county, with higher property values and thus higher property tax. So I had surmised that the better street maintenance are due to higher property taxes.
SoSmellyAir is offline  
Old 03-16-23, 12:50 PM
  #109  
Eric F 
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 5,593

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3436 Post(s)
Liked 5,494 Times in 2,602 Posts
Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir View Post
I am fortunate to live and bike here. If I had been living anywhere else, I probably would not have resumed cycling after a hiatus which started in my late teens.



Direct answer: street sweepers; indirect answer: property taxes.



But these excellent MUPs also contain inattentive pedestrians, dog walkers, cycling children, teens on e-bikes, people riding Onewheel // Future Motion while texting, and the occasional peloton. I have had more close calls on these MUPs than out on the on-road bike lanes, and I am fairly sure that I am in the bottom quartile (speed wise) among local road cyclists.
The city area I live in has street sweepers. Iíve seen them. Iíve never seen them in use on streets with bike lanes. Irvine is doing it right.

Fair enough about the MUPs. My perception is undoubtedly skewed by mid-morning weekday use. I expect weekends are very different.
__________________
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
Eric F is offline  
Old 03-16-23, 01:04 PM
  #110  
mschwett 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,593

Bikes: aethos, creo, vanmoof, public ...

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 947 Post(s)
Liked 1,041 Times in 557 Posts
Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir View Post
I had not meant to say that property taxes are the sole source of funding for street maintenance.

Orange County, CA Sales Tax Rate - Sales Taxes By County - March 2023 (sales-taxes.com)

But at least in Orange County, gas tax is the same for the entire county (I think?), and sales taxes are higher in the less affluent areas, and the streets are only as well maintained as described by Eric F in the more affluent parts of the county, with higher property values and thus higher property tax. So I had surmised that the better street maintenance are due to higher property taxes.
there are probably some other issues at play there, but iíve never seen a funding source chart for local transportation in which property tax was a large share, especially since prop 13. sales tax rates only vary by a percent or two across counties, but the actual amounts spent are vastly different. wealthier people just spend more, period.

the majority of property taxes (of which the revenue per capita in orange county is among the lowest of the big counties in the state!) goes to schools.

so, without going too far off topic, those bike lanes in orange county are not paid for in any significant way by property taxes. the differences in quality and maintenance you see from place to place are mostly due to other factors.


__________________
mschwett is offline  
Old 03-16-23, 07:00 PM
  #111  
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,140

Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1365 Post(s)
Liked 547 Times in 290 Posts
Originally Posted by Polaris OBark View Post
My sister moved there. I was wondering if it would be a good place to bring my bike if I visit. Thanks for saving me from a PITA.

Marty and Wendy would tell you the risk of road cycling there is vey low compared to other risks inherent to the area.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline  
Old 03-26-23, 12:46 PM
  #112  
Robert7659
Getoutofmyway
 
Join Date: Mar 2023
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
What is this ę dedicated bike lane Ľ of which you speak?
Robert7659 is offline  
Old 03-26-23, 12:59 PM
  #113  
Calsun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 847
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 380 Post(s)
Liked 205 Times in 156 Posts
When bike lanes first appeared in California in the 1970's they were very unsafe for numerous reasons but the highway engineers did not really care as this was a very low status type of project for them. It has not changed at all in past 50 years with the same kinds of people making the same kinds of decisions that are meant to placate bicyclists without bothering motorists. Half the city area in the USA is devoted to automobiles, both for movement and for parking and for storing them.

American motorists are also far more aggressive and far less likely to consider the health of bicyclists who they view as tresspassers and see no reason to share the roadway (and signage does nothing to change this). Bike lanes give bicyclists a false sense of security and I would not recommend using them to anyone.
Calsun is offline  
Old 03-28-23, 10:25 AM
  #114  
Jrasero
Full Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Westchester, NY
Posts: 292

Bikes: Scott Foil RC, Specialized Aethos

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Liked 101 Times in 61 Posts
Honestly rarely. There are so many trails by me that it be stupid to cycle on the road like that.
Jrasero is offline  
Old 03-28-23, 10:43 AM
  #115  
Eric F 
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 5,593

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3436 Post(s)
Liked 5,494 Times in 2,602 Posts
Originally Posted by Calsun View Post
Bike lanes give bicyclists a false sense of security and I would not recommend using them to anyone.
IMO, it's situational. As I have commented in this thread, some bike lanes I've come across are dangerous and a bad idea. Some have been really good. That said, my awareness of what is going on around me doesn't decrease if I'm in a bike lane alongside car traffic.
__________________
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
Eric F is offline  
Likes For Eric F:
Old 03-28-23, 05:51 PM
  #116  
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,140

Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1365 Post(s)
Liked 547 Times in 290 Posts
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Marty and Wendy would tell you the risk of road cycling there is vey low compared to other risks inherent to the area.

Come on man? No Ozarks fans, what is this place coming to?
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline  
Likes For merlinextraligh:
Old 03-28-23, 05:52 PM
  #117  
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,140

Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1365 Post(s)
Liked 547 Times in 290 Posts
I’m just p’od that this thread is a page ahead of my parody thread.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline  
Old 04-02-23, 08:40 AM
  #118  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,299

Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1656 Post(s)
Liked 1,163 Times in 678 Posts
Originally Posted by MyRedTrek View Post
Do you ride in circumstances like this - highway with no real bike lane? There's a narrow shoulder but they're counting on motorists to avoid them. The odds of something bad happening seem really high.

I never ride on highways if I can help it. One thing I have recently bought that is invaluable is Garmin radar.
bruce19 is offline  
Likes For bruce19:
Old 04-06-23, 11:43 AM
  #119  
Roypercy
Full Member
 
Roypercy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 479

Bikes: 1987 Schwinn Super Sport

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked 46 Times in 25 Posts
I started riding seriously in the 70s when I was living in East Tennessee. 99% of my riding was on two-lane highways with little shoulder. I never had a wreck, although once in awhile a local who'd never seen a (young) adult on a bicycle - wearing a helmet of all things - might holler something at me as they sped by in a pickup truck. I'm a pretty cautious rider and at the time my hometown was more rural than it is now, so traffic was never too bad.

Now I live in New York City and ride on the streets all the time. Like some others here I avoid the protected bike lanes that are popping up on city streets, because they tend to be full of debris, pedestrians, car doors opening, jackasses going too fast or riding against traffic, and - thank you New York! - storm drains. I feel much safer riding out in traffic where I have more options to avoid obstacles.
Roypercy is offline  
Old 04-06-23, 12:06 PM
  #120  
Calsun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 847
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 380 Post(s)
Liked 205 Times in 156 Posts
It comes down to exercising ones own judgment as to when and where it is safe to bicycle. Bike lanes alongside parked motor vehicles are inherently dangerous but city and county engineers do not really care about bicyclists in this country. We also have more aggressive drivers who are distracted by their cell phones and not paying any attention to what is happening around them.

I avoid taking risks that would be fatal and this includes hoping that a motorist is paying attention and exercising good judgment which is very rare in the USA.
Calsun is offline  
Old 04-06-23, 12:22 PM
  #121  
bbbean 
Senior Member
 
bbbean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,545

Bikes: Giant Propel, Cannondale SuperX, Univega Alpina Ultima

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 593 Post(s)
Liked 345 Times in 196 Posts
Originally Posted by MyRedTrek View Post
Do you ride in circumstances like this - highway with no real bike lane? There's a narrow shoulder but they're counting on motorists to avoid them. The odds of something bad happening seem really high.

And yet the statistics show that "something bad" rarely happens. Ride predictably, visibly, and legally, and use common sense about how high volume a road you're comfortable on. But rest assured that millions of us ride millions of miles daily on roads with cars and do so without incident.
__________________

Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton

bbbean is offline  
Likes For bbbean:
Old 04-06-23, 02:33 PM
  #122  
Imaginos
Junior Member
 
Imaginos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: Southeast Alaska
Posts: 98

Bikes: 1994 Raleigh MT200,2022 Windsor Tourist,2022 Marin Four Corners

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked 192 Times in 60 Posts
I gotta ride the two lane,55 mph relatively low traffic highway to go anywhere outside my tiny town. State law says I’m supposed to ride the shoulders and fortunately there are decent shoulders,although flats are more frequent from road debris.

Typical shoulder
Imaginos is offline  
Likes For Imaginos:
Old 04-06-23, 02:44 PM
  #123  
Clyde1820
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 1,826

Bikes: 1996 Trek 970 ZX 2x11

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 581 Post(s)
Liked 500 Times in 381 Posts
Around my area, there are many roadways that were built pre-everything ... back when horse-drawn carriages were the thing. And so, many roads are simply too narrow to have specially-painted zones for bikes, parking, etc. Lots of bad spots. But, thankfully, the town's doing what they can via turning key roads into one-way routes, thereby opening up space to craft (painted-in) bike lanes on many of them. Which helps.

I mostly ride along MUPs, sidewalks (in the most-risky areas, when I can), and the larger through-ways that have bike lanes. Whenever I can, I head to MUP-type areas, though there aren't nearly enough of these in my area. Many cyclists gang-up as small groups and thus end up much more visible. If I go out solo, though, I take advantage of every light and dayglo-colored article of clothing I can in order to be seen. Haven't been struck yet, thankfully. But, yeah, on some roads, it's likely to be a matter of time (so I spend as little time transiting through such zones as possible, or head through them at the low-traffic times of the day).
Clyde1820 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.