You don't, you know. I am in the process of having a bike built for me in the hope that I will be able to keep up with the group I have ridden with for the last five years while I am recovering from the broken femur.

Because I prefer Campagnolo ergonomics and because I wanted to try something different, it will be running an Ekar group set with Winspace wheels.

If I wanted rim brakes I would have gone with Chorus. There are shops that will build up bikes with your choice of group set. Wrench Science is building mine for me.

I'm puzzled by some of the road bikes people have mentioned weighing 19+lbs. Is e-shifing a lot heavier than mechanical? My gravel bike weighs 19.5. It has a carbon frame (but not exactly a featherweight), hydro disc brakes, decently-light wheels, but 500g tires.

It does feel like some of the brands have realized that the wider rims and aero tubes make for a chunkier looking bike and just decided that function could follow form and gave up on lighter weight bikes. I'd originally considered a trek domane al 3 disc for my middle kid who's 10, thought I would give myself a hernia trying to get it down from the rack. They claim it weighs 22.7lbs but it felt heavier, maybe psychological but I'd swear it felt heavier than my 27lb mtb. Toss in it being nearly 1500.00 and Sora equipped and how good a bike could it really be? I can remember the trek 1000 being sora equipped, 700.00 and 18lbs, seems like it should have gotten lighter or nicer parts for the cost increase. I settled for buying a youth specific Worx frameset, rival axs shifters, discs and rear der, jfoyh cassette, an older 142/100 29er wheelset I had laying around, and some clearance deda 100 bars, stem and seatpost, and a square taper crankset with cheap narrow wide chainring. Total, spent 1600 for the whole bike and it came out to just barely under 18lbs and better equipped. Would like to figure out a much nicer wheelset for it, currently XT hubs with a sun inferno 25 which requires running 27c tires. Seems pathetic I could do get something weighing that much with little effort, and trek can't bother getting their weight down on their aluminum bike for nearly the same cost. I'd suspect with some Hope RS4 hubs, butted spokes, carbon rims and some 25c race tires it'd be sub 17lbs.

My full carbon gravel bike with Avid mechanical discs, 32mm slicks, and 105 group weighs 21.5lbs with pedals, cages, frame bag, and a spare tube. Once I change it to 40mm gravel tires it will be even heavier. I can shave 2lbs with new wheels, bar/stem, and pedals, but that feels like a lot of effort for still a 19.5lb bike (which I don't consider light). That would make it on par with my heaviest road bike which is titanium with 1x and rim brakes.

When talking bike weights, one should always consider what accessories. Manufacturers will usually quote a smaller size, no pedals. For real world riding, it still makes sense to call out pedals, cages, lights, saddle bag. A friend of mine was complaining his brand new Fairlight Strael was 22.5 lbs… with all those things, but then comparing to Canyon’s online weight listing. Add 300g to the Canyon (for pedals), and take the saddle bag and Assiomas off the Strael and you have a better comparison. The Strael will still lose, but it’s a matter of <2 lbs instead of 5 lbs.

With regards to braking, going down an 8% grade and hitting ~30mph, my Ultegra hydraulics haul me down faster than my Force rim brakes (stock pads, Campy Zondas). I’m also fat, so there’s that. But at the same braking point, the Ultegras stop me about 10ft before the intersection, the Forces about 3ft in. Luckily there was no cross traffic that day. However, I do have bigger contact patches on the disc bike - an effective 28mm (GP4k SII) on the back and nearly 32mm (UltraSport 2) on the front, vs 26mm (Michelin Endurance 4) on the rim bike, so that could definitely impact lockup point.

I have myself acquiring more mechanical bikes sense my ETAP purchase.

I don’t find any advantage of the ETAP other than my heads up display showing me my current gear selection.

To me the price isn’t worth it. All of my bikes shift the same, i’ve yet to have a cable brake. I have had a shifter battery die which resulted in a ride being cut short. That really pissed me off, especially since the said battery showed good before I left.

So I went through this thought process, when the 11 year old SRAM Red mechanical components on my Willier Zero 7 were pretty much shot.

the bike weighs 13 pounds, is amazingly stiff for a 700 gram frame, and rides great.

I decided for 2 grand, a tiny weight increase, a new SRAM Red etap group made way more sense than 12 grand for a new bike that would be heavier.

Having raced Pro 1,2,3 crits and road races on the bike, and descended in the Rockies, and some very steep grades in the Appalachian mountains, the rim brakes have never been a limiting factor.

I'm surprised when I read about how light many of the bikes are owned my Forum members. I regularly see weights under 19 lbs. I have to very good bikes, a 2017 Trek Domane and and a 2022 Trek Checkpoint. The Domane without the pedals I think comes in at around 19.5 and the Checkpoint at 21.39. By the time I put on the pedals, the seat bag with tools in it, the rear light, a bell, and water bottle cages, I'm sure that the weight of each bike each bike has increased by two or three pounds. I don't bother to weigh the bikes with all the gear, but I assume I'm pedaling bikes that range from around 22 to 24 lbs, and that's without water in the bottles. Are people really riding bikes that are weighing in at 16 and 17 pounds? How do they do it?

My completely non-exotic 2016 CAAD8 with Force22 and alloy wheels (rim brakes) comes in at 18 lbs with SPD pedals and Amazon carbon cages, but not lights, water, or saddle bag. So 18 lbs for a 30 min cruise around the neighborhood. Different sized water bottles and pouches can weigh significantly different amounts, so not fair to include them.

Switching to carbon wheels, road pedals, and Red would knock that weight down to 17lbs, a full carbon fork and frame can knock another lbs off that.

Real case: "naked" carbon bike, with no pedals, cages, saddle bag, pump or other accessories:

2300 EUR – bought as new in 2015: SRAM Force 22, rim brakes, 6.65 kg.
Add 690 EUR for inflation to 2023 (30% * 2300)
Add 300 EUR difference for electronic group set
Add 200 EUR difference for disk brakes
RESULT: 3490 EUR for 2023 - SRAM Force Etap, disk brakes, 7.2 kg (added 550 g in weight, since electronic plus disk brakes are heavier)

However, the cost of a 7.2 kg bike at the same provider, with SRAM Force Etap and disk brakes, is 6000 EUR instead of 3490. The difference of 2510 EUR (more than the whole cost of that light bike in 2015) goes to the extra profit of the provider.
I saw very similar evolution to another top provider.

I think a person will reach the point where the "upgrade" doesn't justify the price. Some already have. Each person has their line. From what I read on here it may not even be about overall money. It could be more about the all or nothing mentality the bike companies have adopted. Not much in between. My bike evolution stopped a long time ago when the companies went a different way than I needed/wanted. That's life. I said it before on some thread and I'll said it again. In the constant battle that is competition, the companies are attempting to make cycling as exclusive as possible. Not good for the overall health of the sport/hobby. That's my opinion. I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first or the last time.

But, in your first post you stated you paid 65% more than you did in 2015, which would be 3800 EUR not 6000 EUR.

Exactly! I took the lower tier Rival AXS, weighting 7.8 kg.
6000 EUR would be for Force axs tier, weighting 7.2 kg. A totally unjustified price, in my opinion.
You can see that even Rival axs option (and further heavier) is still visible more expensive than what Force axs tier should cost, with all the upgrade and inflation adjustments included.

Fully agree. Therefore, I had to renounce to upgrade around 2 years ago, due to the incredible increase in prices. But when I was obliged to look for a replacement bike, I had to deal with the actual insane prices...

We can't really see anything, because you've never specified the actual bike brand and models you're considering. You're offering up numbers that may or may not be representative of the market.

I didn't want to refer to brands, but if you really want to check, you can see German producers Rose and Canyon. I think you could find similar percentages at more well known brands as Trek, Specialized, etc., if you know their price history. I did not even benchmark them because, in terms of absolute figures, they are even more expensive.

The point is, we can't draw any conclusions based on vague references. If we looked at specific models, we could make a real comparison. So, what model did you buy in 2015, what model did you buy recently, and what model has the 6000 EUR price?

I'm in total, complete agreement.
I just replaced my ancient Tarmac with a slightly newer, used bike, but instead of the low end of the Tarmac line-up I went all the way to the 11R, S-Works bike. Added some Reynolds Assault wheels, carbon Fiber pedals and I'm ready to ride. The cost was less than on third what a new bike at the same level, with new wheels would have cost. However, I work on my own bikes so the repairs associated with a used bike don't bother me. Can I afford to buy a high end road bike with disc brakes and aero, CF wheels? Sure, but spending some outrageous sum of money for a road bike that I can't pedal any faster than the current used bike I have makes no sense. Still I see some serious bucks lining up for roll-off every Sunday with one noticeable missing ingredient, youth. I don't see anyone in their 20s lining up to ride. If I was a bike company executive, I'd have to ask how they plan to maintain people buying new bikes.

i think the pendulum has shifted a bit away from super light since most everyone seems to know that aero is really more relevant for most serious road riders, plus disc brakes, plus more cogs, plus bits and pieces of electronics. For the latest 12 speed DA, there isn’t a weight penalty for di2 (comparing to most comparable previous groups) but I’m guessing there is with SRAM’s approach, even at the top end?

i have a 14lb s-works aethos, 12 speed da/di2, disc brakes of course, and the two big compromises it brings are aerodynamics (relatively shallow wheel profiles, round tubes) and cost. It’s really the only bike i ride, and I ride it a lot, so the latter isn’t too much of a concern. I do sometimes wonder how much faster an extra pound of wheels and frame in the interest of aero would make me, and now much would the ride quality suffer from the bigger profiles in various locations.

I do not doubt that this is true in a lot of places, but the groups I ride with have a large number of riders in their 20's and 30's. Some of the slower rides have had teens riding with their parents.

Maybe it is that we have three universities here in the Fargo area. Possibly it is because off road trail riding here is not as attractive to younger riders as it is in some places. Although, if I go to one of the parks with off road trails there are a higher percentage of younger folks riding than in the road group rides. And some of them have spent a lot of money on their trail bikes.

Perhaps it is because the old folks here in the upper Midwest are a bit more easy going and easier to get along with. Perhaps it is just that we are a statistical anomaly. I don't really know.

And, yes. The higher end road bicycles tend to have older riders. Partially because we need every advantage, and if those carbon wheels give me a mile per hour on the top end I can still ride with the group.

Finally test rode the 2023 Domane AL5. It's a very nice feeling bike, but it is very thicc. Looks almost e-bikish. Add in it's price tag and weight, and it's not really that attractive. Though it is a comfortable ride.

To be fair, Scott split their Addict line up into three subsets - Race = Addict RC; Endurance = Addict; Gravel = Addict Gravel.

My 2023 RC15 weighs in three pounds lighter than the OP's Addict 10. And, that was before I swapped out the boat anchor saddle (pictured) and cut a few MMs for the steerer - the later had to shave a ton of weight. ;-)


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You do have to if you don't choose Camapgnolo.

And I wonder if next versions of their groups will even allow it. The point is we are getting painted into a "Campagnolo and/or NOS older generation and/or microshift" corner if we choose to continue to stick with cable shifting and rim brakes above entry level.

Next stop, C&V!

Same here but with slightly different reasons.

I like disc brakes, and as a 190-195# rider, no racing, limited mountain use - a more price friendly aluminum frame, 105 equipped bike, good tires and a wheel upgrade suits me just fine. To "upgrade" we start talking $1000's to save the first pound or so, then $2000's to save the next pound. Then $3000+ to save grams...

On my typical 20-40 mile 18-20 mph ride, or even the occasional century - what real world difference would a more expensive, lighter bike really make? Get me to the next redlight 10 seconds faster? 1 min faster to the next rest stop? In a paceline, would the bike make any real difference at all?

There has to be a breaking point in price where people will no longer pay for the bike they "want" vs need - or where the performance upgrades are just flat not worth the money for the everyday rider.

Prices have passed my personal breaking point - and I can afford the bike I "want", I just won't pay the prices. Prices I think are insane.

This is the bike with the most modern tech in my fleet. It weighs 20.65lbs if I remember correctly. Might be without the pedals. 3x9 with a square taper BB. It could have been a 10. I'm simply posting it to give context. It's an 84 56cm frame. I have a matching 83 with old school manual "electronic" shifting called friction barcons. Only 2 Shimano components on there, the 5500 hubs and the Deore RD. All of the components are mid level at best, except for maybe the Dia Compe dual pivot calipers. They were picked because of their weight relative to what else was available. Again, not posting to compare if it's better, equal, etc. Simply posting to drive home the point datlas made. Unless your bike is disc equipped, it's in the same situation as this one. Doesn't matter how old or what level it is.

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