mcavana

Me: I am steadily loosing weight.... right now about 265lbs. 29 years old. 6'3''
My location: Jacksonville Florida... Hot, High humidity, little to no hills at all
My ride: 2004 XL Giant TCR 2 road bike, clipless pedals, computer, Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheelset
My history: been riding for about a year... usually 21 mile solo rides averaging about 19 - 20 mph, and longer 40 mile group rides at about the same speed. A group century every now and then.

Where i need help: Hills! I suck at hills! on my normal 21 mile ride there is a nice steep bridge usualy with a strong head wind one way or the other.... now, I know all the obvious stuff like 1.) my weight is killing me in the hills 2.) The only way to get good in the hills is to ride the hills.

I have mainly tried two different techniques that both seem to be failing miserably...

one is staying seated in the beginning, keeping speed at about 18-19 mph, with my normal cadence (about 80-90 rpm) until my speed starts to drop *about a third of the way up)... then i stand up and pedal for short time keeping about the same speed, then (at about 2/3 of the way up) i totally burn out and die, and end up sitting back down, quickly dropping gears until i am near the top, in the easiest gear, and going like 8 mph trying not to fall over!!!

the 0ther is just staying seated the whole time... shifting gears to allow me to stay at about the same cadence... starting out at about 19mph, and quickly droping to 12 or so.

i stay on the hoods during both of these techniques regardless of head winds.... when on flat land against head winds i normally will use the drops, but i don't think i have even tried being on the drops for the hills because i am so overwhelmed!

on the group rides, i always get dropped on this bridge and i am sick of it. I recently modified my solo rides so that i go over the bridge twice on each ride... I am doing the time, and i am working it! Please point me in the right direction technique wise so i can get where i need to be.

Where i need to be: I need to be able to maintain a speed of at least 18mph when going over the bridge to not get dropped by the group.

thank you very much for any help you might give!

bidaci

Hate to say it but the best way is by practice and finding what way works best for you. I started out standing and grinding a bigger gear until I built up my leg muscles enough to stay seated and maintain the speed that I wanted. That being, said each time I get a little bit faster. Try to find a hill bigger then you encounter in your group ride and practice on that, then the smaller hills seem tiny by comparison.

va_cyclist

Your 2nd technique sounds better. You'll probably continue to get dropped until you reach the level of fitness or weight of the rest of the group. I could probably drop you on the hill, but then again, I can't cruise on flats at 19-20 for very long. That's just the nature of heavy power cyclists, isn't it?

cycleprincess

I have the same issue. I am a hill slug. I stay seated and dump gears as I need them. Yeah, I'm poking up the hill at 6-8 mph...sometimes 4!! But eventually I get to the top. If I stay in a larger gear and stand I can make it to the top barely well past anerobic threshold then I have to coast down the hill and try to recover. If I poke up the hill in a granny gear, I'm not terriably taxed and I can pile the gears back on and power down the hill and keep a decent speed (if it's flat) for a bit. That's why I'm so glad I have a tripple!!!!

ZappCatt

I find it easier to shift farther down than I think is "necessary" at the beginning of the hill, and spin faster for the early part of the hill..I then "work" in that gear for awhile before I shift down. This seems to let me get farther up the hill before I am really working hard. Not sure if it is more mental, but is the only way I get up hills.

I found that when I started in a higher gear, and shifted when it got hard, I was shifting earlier, and getting to the end of my gears much faster/earlier on the hill..so had a longer grind.

jazzy_cyclist

Hills aren't easy for anyone. Someone said (LeMonde?) that they don't get easier, but you get faster.

I only stand and "power" over the hills if they're short and steep; it doesn't work for real climbs for me - I blow up. Better is spinning in a comfortable gear, then working at making that gear higher as you can.

The other approach is to increase your LT tolerance so that you can hammer for longer periods before blowing up. That just takes lots of work - intervals and the like. Keep at it.

I'm a lightweight compared to you (I'm 185!), but dropping 10 pounds made a big difference for me. That stickman (Rassmussen) in the TDF that won the King of the Mountain jersey is my height (5'9") and weighs 135!

RC2

Yep LeMonde said that generally... it doesn't get easier, you just get faster. That's a good way to think about it -- stay at an exertion level that's appropriate for the conditions (100%, max HR at the end of a race, or 65-85% training, etc.). A HR monitor can help w/hills -- don't blow up and burn out to the granny at the end...you'll find what works best through experimentation. For me that's taking the climb comfortably at first and letting my HR increase to 85-90% near the end, with enough reserves to bring up the pace as the hill peaks.

jplavnick

When I climb a hill that is long I try to stay seated most of the way up. I place my hands on the bar in between the stem and the curve of the handlebar. I keep my fingers loose as they dangle of the handlebar. This helps me keep my upper body loose which is very important. The other technique I try and do is to ride as much of the hill by pushing my butt back in the saddle. This makes it easier to use my hamstrings to gain power when pulling. On long, challenging hills (this is relative and different for everyone) I will shift my weight as my hamstrings get tired and use my quads more for pushing the pedals. If I get tired, I will shift into a higher gear (harder to pedal) and keep a steady stroke to increase speed. Hopefully these tips help. Combined with losing eight pounds from my bike and 15 from myself I have definately improved using these techniques. Good luck!!

dahvaio

Your starting out too fast... especially by going at 19MPH... and then you are falling down to 12MPH and then to 8MPH... What I would do if I were you is to climb at a steady 14-15MPH and even if you want to go faster hold back a little and then see how much energy you have left.

Your riding into the red-zone by going up too fast.. ride steady and keep your breathing steady... Try staying seated the entire time...

oboeguy

RC2 and jplavnick have it. In short, don't let your heart rate get too high too early, and adjust your position as necessary to get better leverage or rest certain parts of your body (e.g. shift one cog harder and stand once in a while).

One more thing, though: I know you said you know about the weight being and issue. It's huge! Lance himself has said the best thing to do is loose pounds to climb better, assuming technique is good. If you're much bigger than the guys you ride with, chances are you will get dropped on climbs no matter what (I weigh 1/3 more now than I did in college so I know what I'm talking about ).

shnapper

I concur...........

Slow and steady wins the race, be consistant and keep a steady pace. Only part I'm having trouble with is a 265lb man able to hold a 19-21mph average. Either your solid muscle or your incorrect on your over all average speed.........

I popped out 40 miles this morning and was barely able to hold a 19mph average, I guess I better get with it aye?

jslopez

A few things that may help :
1) A heart rate monitor (to see if you are putting to much or too little of an effort). At the end of the day you don't want to be over your LT for too long, unless it's a short hill that your blasting over or the race to your finish line.
2) Change seating positions - I tend to be in roughly 3 spots on climbs to be able to use different muscle groups a) Hands on the bars (near the stem) butt back in the seat, body upright , concentrating more on the upward stroke rather than the push down b) Hands on hoods, middle of the seat, concentrating on the push and pulle from each leg c) hands in drops, scooted forward concentrating more on the pushing .
3) Better gearing - The more your spinning the fresher you'll be once you get to the top. You oviously don't wnat to overdo it but choose a cassete that gve you the right amount of spin

LungRider

I'd suggest you shift more, and shift more often, when using either strategy. I agree with dahvaio's advice to take the hill slower.

Don't worry about keeping your speed up - you'll exhaust yourself quickly. And don't work hard to keep up speed in the early part of the climb. Instead, drop gears a little before you think you need to. And keep on dropping them this way until you are in the granny. Drop them often, and one at a time, in a nice periodic manner, all the way to the top if you need to. But shift down before things get tough. Ignore your speedometer. Pay attention to cadence and don't let that drop too low or get too high, but don't obsess about it either.

When you stand, shift to a higher gear and use a lower cadence to maintain roughly the same speed. Pedaling rapidly while standing is very difficult - some people can do it, but it takes practice. When you sit back down, downshift again so you can use a high cadence. If you don't shift up when you stand, you will need to mash the pedals to bring the cadence back up when you sit, and this can be exhausting.

I find I can develop more power with my legs, especially when standing, with my hands at the very ends of the bar, below the drops (I believe the drops to be immediately behind the brake levers, but maybe I'm wrong). My second choice is putting them on the curved part of the bar near the uppers. The hoods aren't too bad, but it is hard to pull the bike into your stroke if you can't wrap your whole hand around a bar.

When I'm seated, pulmonary function is best when I have my hands on the bar tops, well above the hoods and in close to the stem. Although this might not be a big issue if you aren't pulmonary-limited, as I am.

Ignore all of this if it doesn't work, and do whatever you find works best for you. Good luck! By the way, my folks and brother live in Jacksonville, east side nearly to the beaches. I'm curious about where you ride.

mcavana

Well, i am by no means solid muscle... but i am also not all fat either.

I assure you that my overal speed averages are correct. Like i said, 95% of the roads here are FLAT. I don't know if you have ever been to florida, but when i say flat, i mean flat. The reson i mention this is that for whatever reason, i think bigger guys somehow perhaps even have an advantage to smaller guys in the flats. This theory really doesn't make sence if you think about it, but i have observed it often. there are a couple larger guys in the group i ride with, and they are similar to me.... no problem at all keeping up, even leading on the flats, but totally loose it on the few hills. Does this observation make sence to anyone, or am i just delerious from riding that hill?

twahl

Mike, I think I am smaller than you ( 5-10 and 195) but similar in fitness. I ride more hills, with my normal route of 32 miles having 1400 feet of climbing.

I just take the hills as they come. I stay seated unless I get into trouble, then I'll go up a gear, stand and take a few strokes, then drop back to the seat and enjoy the momentum and increased cadence, shifting down as needed. Sometimes I'll top a hill at 4 MPH, then just build it right back up. I'm getting a little faster on the hills and I'm certainly gaining in what I can hold on flats...in the 22 - 25 MPH range for a couple of miles at a time after 20 miles of hills.

kandnhome

There has been a lot of good info and suggestions so far, but I might be able to add a few, having started ins a similar situation physically. A year ago when I started, I weight in at almost 250 (I'm 6'2"). I also am neither solid muscle nor all fat -- most people would probably call me a little chubby, but muscular.

I have spent between 2 and 4 weeks per year in South Florida (Tampa, St. Pete, Sarasota, Punta Gorda, etc) and have crossed what is (I believe) the highest point in Florida a few dozen times: the Sunshine Skyway. Florida is flat like a board. Flat flat. Very flat.

I, on the other hand, live in NW Arkansas, in a rather hilly part of the Ozarks. There is almost no flat land around here, everything is between 3% and 10%, with some steeper stuff around if you look for it. The climbs aren't terribly long -- the longest I've found is barely over a mile, at maybe 6% average. But it's still plenty to kick a big man's ass.

OK, background info done. What I've found is that when I started, any hill would kill me no matter whether I sprinted over it or spun up it in my lowest gear (42-26). After bashing my head against the hills repeatedly for a year, I now climb almost every hill around here at a steady 14-15mph (anything less than about 9-10%), I'm down to 218lbs (probably where most of the speed increase comes from), and I can ride 20mi of hills without bonking/burning out at all. So there's hope for you yet.

My best suggestion for you, since you live in Florida: take a day a week, and instead of your normal ride, ride to that bridge that kills you, and ride to the top, turn around, and do it again. And again, and again, etc. There's no substitute for experience, and in Florida there is a dearth of available hills to experience. So repeats are probably your best bet.

As far as Shnapper's doubt of big guys going fast: 19-20 mph is an easy cruising speed for me on what little flat land I find around here. Uphills are slower, downhills are faster. I average between 16-21mph depending on how I feel any given day.

FatguyRacer

Try also starting the climb from the front of the group or break away just ahead of it to get a head start. I dont know how long the climb is or the size of your group, but you may just be lucky enough to be still be with the group at the top after they caught you. Ask me how i know this works.

mrog71

That's not that hard to believe. I'm 6'2", 265 pounds and I can average 18.5 over a 20 miles course.

delay

Something I read about spinning that helps me get over hills.

Think about moving your knees to your shoulders instead of pushing down. I do this conciously when things get rough. Also, I tend to count my breathing to keep a pace. For example I will breath in for four counts and breath out for four each count being a pedal rotation.

Perhaps its insanity, but this is what helps me.

si2k2000

Thought Id add a few tips to this thread as a big guy who has improved on the hills.

Like someone else mentioned (and I also read on Chris Carmichaels website) if you wanna get good at riding hills go ride hills. I dont know what your hill is like but I always try and break a hill down into sections after a few times of riding it. I then mix up the technique for different parts. Sometimes on drops, sometimes on the straight bit near the stem spinning, sometimes standing mashing a large gear.

A few things i noticed I was doing when standing was when I was starting to suffer i would lean forward and be wasting energy. I noticed a lot of the good climbers in the tour seem to stand up almost straight and drive straight down and I seem to be able to get more power to the pedals. I know it seem like common sense but until I disected what I was doing I didnt really notice what I was doing wrong.

The other thing to do is relax and focus on the hills. Dont look up pick a point in front of you and focus on it. Dont panic, try and keep a steady breathing rhythem. Stick at it and you will get there. But the best way is to ride as many hills as possible. When I started out I used to avoid hills, now I seek them out.

redfooj

dumping gears did not work at all for me.... unless, of course, its a longgg hill


for short to intermediate length hills, what worked for me was:
1) relax on the approach
2) pedal easy at the entry of the hill until you feel it start to slow you down
3) UPSHIFT--yes, up!--and mash out-of-saddle until tired
4) sit on REAR of saddle, and Power spin (it uses muscles different from #3)
5) repeat #3
6) sit on FRONT of saddle, downshift if needed, spin fast (again, slightly different muscles)
7) cycle through #3->#6

i guess the keypoints are to Upshift (when intuition tells you to downshift), and to switch positions to make good use of all your muscles...

now my bikes have only 1 gear, but i still use the same technique of changing positions and pedalling techniques

also, dont look at/focus on getting over the hill... it'll throw you off, look just ahead of your front wheel and focus on the techniques

basically...what everyone else said above