genejockey 

And let me add the usual note that Trainer Difficulty does NOT change your speed in-game for a particular power output. If you're putting out 250w, you'll climb at the same speed no matter what Trainer Difficulty is set to. All it does is change the resistance you feel. For races with hills, it can be helpful to reduce Trainer Difficulty so you don't burn your matches on that steep bit of "Downtown Dolphins" every lap.

Also, you trainer has a maximum gradient simulation, but that is also affected by your weight. A big bruiser like me (205#) maxes out at a lower gradient than a flyweight. So, when I do the Radio Tower climb, I don't really feel any difference between 10% and 17%. I just go slower - like "slow enough that in the real world, you'd fall over' slow.

TMonk

Is that how it works though? Like wouldn't you need to put out more power anyway as riders surge up the hill in Downtown Dolphin, regardless of trainer difficulty? I would think that constituents most of the match burnt, and you would just be in a different gear/cadence band on your bike???

I set mine at 100% to get a more realistic feel and haven't experimented with that setting TBH. I guess I must like shifting or something lol.

RChung

Guys like you are in what we call the reality-based community, who believe that solutions emerge from judicious study of discernible reality. That's not the way the world really works anymore. We ride Zwift now and when we ride, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality--judiciously, as you will--we'll ride on, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're Zwift's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.

Realism is overrated.

TMonk

Must be the scientist in me. I like to "feel" things (including trainer resistance) in a similar way that I would in my empirical, non-virtual experience. It's also a preference by the way, not some sort of overarching ethos. Like just b/c I like it that way, doesn't mean I think that's the way it should be for others. I've been a pretty heavy zwift user for a few years, and don't see that changing any time soon.

Also RChung you're the Chung behind the famous Chung aero testing method, correct? I'm also an elite/Master's IRL racer and time trialist. Been doing some Chung testing lately to get me faster on the TT bike.

TMonk

Scientist is also a vague term in this context, since one can be scientific about the development or implementation of virtual reality. Let's go with "empiricist" . I'm an analytical chemist.

genejockey 

I've tried it both ways - 100 and 50% - and I find that at 100% I have to stand and sprint up the hill, but then I pass everyone (in D), but then I find it harder to stay ahead. The situation that reducing Trainer Difficulty really could help would be extended downhill segments, where you might spin out at 100% but not at 50%.

Eric F 

Zwift is primarily driven by your w/kg number. As I understand it from reading discussions on other sites, the "trainer difficulty" setting is more like a change of gearing.

RChung

Have you been getting good results?

Since you're an empiricist, I tried to do some acceleration testing on an older Kickr Snap to see whether the acceleration both on the flat and on climbs matched what we'd see IRL. (The Snap belonged to a buddy, so that's the model we tested). Even though the steady-state power demand was pretty reasonable, the acceleration wasn't--but he was having fun anyway so I figure "realism" isn't that important to having fun.

[The "reality-based community" thing above was paraphrased from a Ron Suskind article]

TMonk

Was the acceleration faster, or slower on the Snap?

Still pretty new to the game with aero testing, but so far I have found a meaningful difference between my Giro Aerohead vs previous gen. Specialized Sworks. The Aerohead is better for me.

RChung

The Snap accelerated faster. That was the only time I tested one so I don't know how other models of the Kickr (or Tacx, or Saris, etc.) would perform but, as I said, I think you don't need realism to have fun. I have a friend who does cosplay and maybe we should stop right there and not go down that road.

The Aerohead seems like a good "maybe not the best for all riders but not bad on any rider" helmet.

TMonk

That seems to be the consensus with Aerohead. I have some local buddies with several Kask and POC models, so it will be fun to experiment with this a bit once I get more confident with the method. I am doing 3 x 1 km efforts at the San Diego velodrome as one "replicate" (of triplicates) per condition. Hitting the lap button after each km. Then, fitting the virtual elevation in Golden Cheetah to find CdA.

In Zwift - I think I recall reading that the Bell TT helmet is very marginally faster than the other ones. When I want a hard 9 - 10 minute effort, I like to go for Fuego Flats reverse. I stop at the top of the low hill at the edge of the desert, swap to the TT bike (Cadex). disc wheel (DT Swiss), Bell Helmet, then let 'er rip. Average time is around 9:30 - 9:40. I have seen 9:15 a few times but I have to be in great shape and really going for it.

RChung

Don't really need to hit the lap button -- you can usually tell the laps, and then you needn't move your hands (or head, which is important when testing helmets) out of position. Also, it can help if you vary speed and power -- Aerolab will adjust for changes in them and it improves the precision of the estimate. Evidently, this is counter-intuitive to many: many people think you get the best estimates if you try to hold speed and power constant. And use a dedicated speed sensor rather than GPS for speed or distance.

TMonk

Thanks for the pro tips! I appreciate it! I will share this with my local TT message group . I am using a dedicated speed sensor, but so far have been trying to hold a fairly constant power, even though I understood that it wasn't strictly required. Could be interesting to try and vary that intentionally.

genejockey 

Myself, I'm a Molecular Biologist, so life only really gets interesting after it's been phenol-extracted.

genejockey 

Huh. Would Cosplay on Zwift involve wearing the same kit on the trainer that you're wearing in-game? Maybe have the same bike? That would be tough for me since there's nothing on Zwift as cheap, or old, as my bikes.

RChung

We don't judge--unless you're wearing white shorts on a rainy day. Please don't do that. Think of the childr --- NO! DON'T DO THAT!! DON'T THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!

PeteHski

I go for maximum realism as we don't have the option of flattening real life hills. My trainer can sim 20% slopes and the Radio Tower is brutal! All adds to the challenge and makes it more interesting. When racing, I find the most disadvantage is when going over the top of steep climbs when the resistance is rapidly dropping off. The flat Earthers can keep the power on more easily so you have to be quick on the gears to avoid getting dropped!

TMonk

more Z this morning, just an hour on the TT bike on Tempus Fugit. I like to do 30 min at high z2, in then a 10-15 min at sweet spot in aero position. So pretty light, not a hard workout by any means, just trying to keep my muscles used to the position. I try to do that weekly in lieu of an actual TT workout. If I have an event coming up that I care about - it's twice/week on the TT bike.

I also watched some U23 XCO cup race. Well, "watch" is a generous term, since I can't see too far passed my hands when I'm in position.

It's kind of good practice though, like I'll look up every so often if the announcers say something exciting, then settle back in with my neck first. It's good feedback in that I am looking for a specific neck sensation when I know I'm nicely turtled. That may be a harder nuance to notice when going hard, but still I'm sure it helps somewhat. Good practice for looking up at road obstacles, turns, features etc when actually time trialing.

himespau 

I didn't think it would make a big change when I moved from progressive resistance rollers (on home-built motion stand) with powertap hub to a direct drive trainer, but it really did. Even moreso when I got a full-motion rocker plate. Wouldn't go back. I have mine hooked up to a "home theater" (sort of) computer with a projector, so it's got a 130" screen and makes the visuals a bit larger than life. Pretty immersive in a dark room. I do almost all of my riding on Zwift (or indieVelo) these days.

Not a huge fan of either of their training programs, but their races get me working hard any time. Just have to choose the right races to work on what I want to work on.

Especially true with indieVelo where I can set a race on any type of course with 50 bots that are pretty evenly matched (some better, some worse) to me to push me.

Lately, I've been wanting to work on my 5 minute power mid race, so I've been trying to do more of this race setup: 5 km neutral start behind the keirin derny bot to get my legs warm, 2 short, hard kickers, ~45-ish second climb with a sprint at the end to deplete my anaerobic reserves immediately followed by a 4-5 min climb, recovery on the descent, another sprint, flat recover, kicker, recovery, sprint to the finish.

genejockey 

Yesterday, I napped from 3-5 PM (gotta love days off!). When I woke up, I decided to ride ITG (In The Garage) on Zwift because I figured I didn't have time to get in a good ride before dark, but then it turned out the AQI had gone bad while I was napping.



Smoke from fires up near the Oregon border. It blows out to sea up there, and then blows back in down here. Today, AQI was >150 this morning, but it's down to 60 now. But the whole reason it cleared up is that it's really damn windy out there. So I guess we're into official Zwifting Season now.

RChung

Yeah, I was going to go out yesterday afternoon but it smelled like smoke and PurpleAir had the AQI > 150, so I stayed in. Today I had to ride to campus and the AQI was ~ 120. Just got home and my eyes are a little itchy.

genejockey 

Yesterday I noticed AQI got much better after about noon, so I spent a couple hours doing yard work, figuring to go for a ride later. By the time I was ready to ride, that had changed.



So, another day on Zwift. Probably be the same today. I hope it clears up by Sunday, when I normally do a 4 hour ride. 4 hours on Zwift is not my idea of a good time.

PeteHski

It was raining last weekend so I did the Mega-Pretzel on Zwift, which took 4 hours. All the climbing made it quite interesting.

Sy Reene

That covers the trainer. Depending on what you already have, you might also need/want a computer, a monitor, and/or another bike. Plus a fan, trainer mat, sweat bra for the bike, HR monitor to not be DQ'd, Anything else?

genejockey 

DEFINITELY get one of those. Imagine the damage you could do to your headset dripping sweat into it, hours a week for months at a time!

You can run Zwift on a smart phone, but it's a lot better with a TV and a decent computer. Apparently what it needs is a good graphics card, and it can otherwise be pretty mundane. My son was upgrading his gaming rig and gave me the old bits and a case. Also, we got a new, larger TV for the living room which consigned the old one to the garage, so I ended up with a pretty nice setup for pretty cheap.


Oh, yeah - buy some box fans at Home Depot. Note the use of the plural.