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Electronic shifters question

Old 09-15-23, 11:29 AM
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Electronic shifters question

If fairly ignorant about electronic shifters, but I've grown frustrated with constant derailleur adjustments and shifter/cable issues w/ my current bike.

Would investing in electronic shifters relieve me of all that? I read that it's minimal maintenance? So does it prevent chain skipping, ghost skipping, chain not shifting, etc.?
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Old 09-15-23, 11:33 AM
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I have bikes with both Di2 and eTap. Once adjusted, you pretty much forget about adjustments from then on. Chain skipping may be more of a component wear issue, and there isn't much you can do about that. Would I go back to mechanical shifting? No way.
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Old 09-15-23, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by CoogansBluff
If fairly ignorant about electronic shifters, but I've grown frustrated with constant derailleur adjustments and shifter/cable issues w/ my current bike.

Would investing in electronic shifters relieve me of all that? I read that it's minimal maintenance? So does it prevent chain skipping, ghost skipping, chain not shifting, etc.?
Yes. Although you still have to keep your drivetrain reasonably clean and check chain wear etc
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Old 09-15-23, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Yes. Although you still have to keep your drivetrain reasonably clean and check chain wear etc
Thanks. Keeping drivetrain clean and changing chains are about the only maintenance thing that I can handle. Sounds like electronic shifting is in my future. I'm running out of patience w/ the constant maintenance of mechanical shifting.

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Old 09-15-23, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by CoogansBluff
Thanks. Keeping drivetrain clear and changing chains are about the only maintenance thing that I can handle. Sounds like electronic shifting is in my future. I'm running out of patience w/ the constant maintenance of mechanical shifting.
Yes, resistance is futile.
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Old 09-15-23, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Yes, resistance is futile.
Guess my next question should be cost. : What's the range I'd be looking at?
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Old 09-15-23, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by CoogansBluff
Guess my next question should be cost. : What's the range I'd be looking at?
$1k to $5k (roughly).
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Old 09-15-23, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
$1k to $5k (roughly).
Little more than I thought as far as a range goes. Hope that toward the lower end would suffice. Definitely interested, though.
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Old 09-15-23, 12:24 PM
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I've had etap 11 on my TT bike for a few years, and now Ultegra Di2 12 on my daily driver TCR road bike. It's the way of the future. Not going back.
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Old 09-15-23, 12:48 PM
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Sounds like there's no negative except for price.

Since my current bike is not overly expensive ($1,800 when new 5 years ago), I guess I also must consider buying a new bike and using the current one as a backup, or selling it. Might be less expensive in the long run to go ahead and buy my next bike that already has it rather than upgrading a current bike. .
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Old 09-15-23, 02:14 PM
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I have two bikes with electronic shifting. Got about 13,000 miles on one with Ultegra Di2 and about 17,000 miles on one with Sram AXS. I've adjusted the derailleurs on the Ultegra bike once, mainly to just prove to myself I could do it. Same for the bike with Sram.
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Old 09-15-23, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by CoogansBluff
If fairly ignorant about electronic shifters, but I've grown frustrated with constant derailleur adjustments and shifter/cable issues w/ my current bike.
how often are you needing to address the der adjustments? replacement of cables?

If everything is set right from the start using all new parts, adjustments should not be a frequent thing. Thats assuming parts are of decent quality & they're not being smacked around.
Being whacked out of adjustment will cause both E & Mech components to not function well & also need manipulation (bent hanger, cage, tooth)

One of the downsides that i see with E-Shifting is relying on a charged battery. If you are likely to forget to charge it, then that shuts down shifting. Not sure how much weather plays a role, but I'd expect cold weather to impact things. Lastly, life span of the battery isn't infinite & will degrade. Another downside to consider is if you should need a replacement battery, cable, part; how long will those be available before they go obsolete? If a mech der goes obsolete, then that is usually the only thing to find for replacement. If the E-Der goes off the market, will that require new shifters, battery & cabling (if not wireless) ? IDK those answers, & it's just food for thought.
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Old 09-15-23, 03:03 PM
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IMO, your best bet is to get a new bike with Di2 or eTap on it. If you "upgrade" your bike, you might be a little disappointed that nothing really changed about it except that you don't have to worry about adjusting the RD and FD every once in a while. Though that's not to say you won't have frustration with electronic shifting during the first year or so as you learn to deal with things that at first seem quirky.
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Old 09-15-23, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Troul
how often are you needing to address the der adjustments? replacement of cables?
I'd have to research to be certain, so these are just off-my-head estimates, but in 5 years, I've replaced maybe 3-4 shifters, the small chain ring and the derailleur in attempts to fix various things. Bought new sprockets 3-4 times. Cables replaced several times. I get free adjustments from the shop that sold me the bike, but I finally decided they were trying to get rid of me because of how frequently I took advantage of that perk and so stopped going there a couple of months ago. Found a new shop. They replaced shifter and kinked cable. Was riding great for 12-14 rides. Then started having issues when in smallest chain ring. Had them adjust it again $28). Running great for another 8-9 rides. Problems are back.

I'm sure it's possible to get it all working right, might entail replacing everything and starting over again, but I'm worn out from all the swings and misses at getting it right and really don't want to try to learn how to fix it myself, don't trust that if real mechanics can't get it right that I ever would. I'm at point now where paying $1,000 for all this to go away is starting to sound nice.
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Old 09-15-23, 08:18 PM
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My Ultegra Di2 bike is 9 years old this month. It has somewhere around 40,000 miles on it.

I replaced the seatpost battery about 4 years ago, when it started needing recharging after just a few rides. The new one is still good.

This year, I replaced the rear derailleur as a "preventative maintenance" item, before any sudden failures in future years, while compatible parts are still current. The newer 8000 derailleur was fully compatible with the rest of my older 6850 system, after a bike shop firmware update. The old derailleur was still shifting perfectly. (That actually is surprising to me, since there's a tiny high speed motor and tiny internal gears to move the derailleur as it shifts. I expected wear in the motor and the pivots would affect it--not yet. My rough estimate is between 500,000 and 700,000 shifts on the old derailleur.)
The shifter buttons still work as new.

I do a simple "micro adjust" on the rear derailleur alignment maybe once a year if I start hearing some chain noise: I can even do it while riding along: Hold the button on the junction box under the stem for 5 seconds. It lights up red. now each click of the Up or Down buttons on the shifter moves it slightly in that direction, to fine-tune the alignment. Press the button again to save the new setting and go back to regular shifting.

I checked the rear dropout alignment a few times over the years, using the Park Tool DAG 2.2 tool. Once, it was bent a slight amount, and the tool realigned it. Other than that, no drivetrain maintenance, other than lubing the derailleur pivots occasionally.

~~~
Operation:
I've always shifted a lot. That was the main motivation to get the Di2, and it's greatest benefit to me. The extremely easy maintenance was kind of a surprise.
I can shift with any finger: if my hand is back from the hood a bit, even my ring or pinky finger can shift it.
A "long press" of 1/2 second or longer shifts 3 cogs in the back. So, at the bottom of a hill: hold the bottom button on both shifters -- that moves to the small chainring and three harder cogs. Over the top of the climb: hold both top buttons to go big ring and three easier cogs.

I can shift the rear while standing on a hill (but I do usually try to ease the pedal pressure if possible.)
The front shifts are very fast and reliable. I'll shift the front for even very short, steep rollers that I would have mashed in a big gear previously.

Rides
Rolling hills are so much better with my Di2 quick and easy shifting. I'm just continuously shifting, even for just a couple of pedal strokes, then shift again.
Flat rides aren't as critical for quick shifts.
Fast-for-me group rides: I'm always looking for the best cadence, shifting a lot.

Charging
Yes, I've run down the battery about once every 2 years. The front stops first, since it's a bigger power draw. Then supposedly there's 50 shifts still available for the rear. But I "save" shifts by leaving super fast spinning or very slow cadence. It's an interesting challenge for a short time, quite difficult if the there's a long way to go.

I check the charge level after every few rides (but occasionally forget). If I see a blinking green light, that means there's less than 50% battery, so I charge it within the next few rides. There's no advantage to running it down to low power reserves. To check: hold a shifter button for more than 5 seconds -- the junction box light shows 4 levels: over 50%, 25-50, 10-25, and almost out.

Some Di2 models have a transmitter that GPS computers can read, for battery level and which gear is in use. I don't have that.

Last edited by rm -rf; 09-15-23 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 09-15-23, 08:43 PM
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Retrofitting a bike:
Sram is way easier, since it's all wireless. No wires to fish through the frame.
It's small batteries, on the front and on the rear, need charging more often than Di2. Maybe that's better: it becomes a habit instead of something to do "next week".
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Old 09-15-23, 09:19 PM
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I have one bike with each - current mechanical and current electronic - and I would never buy another mechanical again. never. have not had to adjust or fiddle with anything about the electronic one ever, 10,000 miles ish, just charge it every 6 weeks or so.
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Old 09-15-23, 09:28 PM
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I'm a bit of a sram AXS supporter since they got the price into reasonable areas. Just installed a rival axs rear der and shifter buttons on my 8yo's cross/road bike and suddenly he can shift. Rough breakdown based on what I've payed at the LBS
Shifters, 250 each, either rival with hydraulic brakes included which is the usual bargain I go for, or force with a cable lever for your rim brakes.
Rival Rear der 250
Rival Front der 150
Rival crankset, 150, 350 if you want a power meter.
I built the kid's bikes with $100 JFOYH 12 speed shimano splined cassettes since I wasn't buying xdr compatible hubs when I had nice wheels already. My oldest and youngest are using KMC chains and the middle kid is using a flat top force chain, 35.00 either way and I've noticed no difference in shift quality between them.
Batteries I've bought three sram and then rounded it out with some ones on Amazon that come with a charger. I've charged the sram batteries in the amazon charger and the amazon batteries in the sram charger and I've noticed no difference in battery length, charge time, or ability of either charger to accept either battery and will be picking up a few more for the seat packs. Toss a spare battery in the pack and its a 1 minute swap out including time to stop and fish it out of the pack.
With BB and batteries you're probably looking at 1300 but sites might have cheaper. Just make sure you have an 11sp hub to fit all the 12sp cassette gears. Can always leave the 11t off and run 11 gears, shifters and der won't care, if you have a 10sp hub.
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Old 09-15-23, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Yes, resistance is futile.
Futility, now measurable in ohms.
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Old 09-15-23, 11:17 PM
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It probably is all a wash & the real consideration is cost impact.

I'd have a hard time justifying it, while others wouldn't flinch at making it rain.
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Old 09-16-23, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by CoogansBluff
I'd have to research to be certain, so these are just off-my-head estimates, but in 5 years, I've replaced maybe 3-4 shifters, the small chain ring and the derailleur in attempts to fix various things. Bought new sprockets 3-4 times. Cables replaced several times. I get free adjustments from the shop that sold me the bike, but I finally decided they were trying to get rid of me because of how frequently I took advantage of that perk and so stopped going there a couple of months ago. Found a new shop. They replaced shifter and kinked cable. Was riding great for 12-14 rides. Then started having issues when in smallest chain ring. Had them adjust it again $28). Running great for another 8-9 rides. Problems are back.

I'm sure it's possible to get it all working right, might entail replacing everything and starting over again, but I'm worn out from all the swings and misses at getting it right and really don't want to try to learn how to fix it myself, don't trust that if real mechanics can't get it right that I ever would. I'm at point now where paying $1,000 for all this to go away is starting to sound nice.
Dude, that’s crazy…every bit of it. No bike should need that much attention or replacement parts, nor not stay in adjustment like that.

I have no idea what could cause such an affair, but what kind of frame and drivetrain components are we talking about here?

Absent more details, all I can think to say is to sell the darned thing because it must be cursed, but I don’t believe in that kind of stuff myself. If you’re having real problems, there are real causes.
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Old 09-16-23, 08:48 AM
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I wonder if you just need a new drivetrain and someone different to set it up? My R8000 Ultegra has needed adjustment twice in 4k miles: new cassette and chain (big b-screw adjustment finally solved that), and once after my pedal jammed and I fell over, drivetrain side (luckily, only my wife was around for that). My Bianchi with a Ultegra 6500 (all original) never misses a rear shift, but the front drops every so often under load - but who can blame her, she’s 19yrs old and has five figure mileage on her crank. And chain. And cassette. And shifters and cables and housing. Wait, how’s she even working at all?

Anyway, my point is wear and tear will still happen with electronic shifting, so if you’re replacing cogs and rings and chains, you’ll have to do the same thing with electronic. And maybe I’ve been lucky, but my mechanical drivetrains need almost nothing aside from the occasional quarter turn of a barrel adjuster.

Which reminds me. My friend with R8100 on his new Fairlight Strael has very janky shifting on his front derailleur, and misaligned limit screws on the back (takes effort for the rear mech to pop it into granny gear sometimes). So Di2 isn’t a panacea, either.
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Old 09-16-23, 09:10 AM
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Di2 might be nice but my 6800 and r7000 need really zero maintenance other than change the cables and housing are appropriate times. Granted I am a bike mechanic but anything decent from Shimano 105 up really should shift smoothly and easily. One reason I see no need for DI2 is the stuff I have is wonderful. I think probably you need to have someone look at your drive train. What components does it have?
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Old 09-16-23, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by aliasfox

Anyway, my point is wear and tear will still happen with electronic shifting, so if you’re replacing cogs and rings and chains, you’ll have to do the same thing with electronic. And maybe I’ve been lucky, but my mechanical drivetrains need almost nothing aside from the occasional quarter turn of a barrel adjuster.
.
I've replaced the cogs twice for sure, possibly three times, but let's just say twice. And I wonder if I needed to do that, or if the mechanic just said, "Let's try that and see if it fixes it.''
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Old 09-16-23, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster
Dude, that’s crazy…every bit of it. No bike should need that much attention or replacement parts, nor not stay in adjustment like that.

I have no idea what could cause such an affair, but what kind of frame and drivetrain components are we talking about here?

Absent more details, all I can think to say is to sell the darned thing because it must be cursed, but I don’t believe in that kind of stuff myself. If you’re having real problems, there are real causes.
Only thing unusual that I know about is that I sweat a lot, and my sweat apparently is a pretty acidic. I've had to replace two handle bars because they corroded. Now have a carbon handlebar. So could be that sweat gets into the shifters and cables. Maybe I don't do enough to prevent it. And it hasn't been like this from the start as far as needing frequent derailleur adjustments, although probably always a little above average. This calendar year has been more frequent.

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