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What's the best protection from punctures?

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What's the best protection from punctures?

Old 09-22-23, 07:58 PM
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What's the best protection from punctures?

I crashed again this morning for the the second time in the last two months. Same scenario as before. Front tire went flat in the middle (well, closer to the end) of a ride without me realizing it. I discovered in the middle of a turn as the flat tire just plowed and tossed me off the bike. On road side inspection, I picked up a thorn somewhere that penetrated the casing just enough to puncture the tube. Seriously, I can't believe that was enough to get the tube because it barely caught my fingernail on inspection.

I am getting extremely tired of picking my old, broken butt off the road because of some stupid thorn or auto tire debris. So I'm considering options to reduce or eliminate this from happening again any time soon.

One of the options I'm considering is tubeless. The other is a heavier casing tire. Right now I don't know which would be the better option. All my bikes are older, rim-brake clenchers. Honestly, for simplicity, I think I would prefer a more puncture resistant tire. I could give a crap about an additional 200g or whatever weight increase. I just want a tire that can say "eff you" to small road debris.

Of course, the other option is tubeless, and I know a lot of people here swear by it. I know there's a learning curve involved, and after yet another fall this morning, I'm open to the idea of learning new technology. My biggest hesitancy with regard to tubeless is it seems like it is a more difficult conversion (nigh impossible?) if the wheels were not originally manufactured with tubeless in mind.

So, given my bloviation on the subject, what would you guys recommend?
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Old 09-22-23, 08:02 PM
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Gatorskins or similar tire.

Tubeless with sealant is an option but bigger hassle.

Mr Tuffy liners also an option.
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Old 09-22-23, 11:06 PM
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I have a pair of Gatorskins on one of my bikes. I have not found them to be noticeably better regarding puncture resistance. I did buy some of these liners a couple years ago, don't recall the brand (Slime maybe?), but I was never able to figure out a reliable way to keep them in the tire between mounting the tire and inflating the tube. It would seem they always detached, at least at some point, and fell out of position inside the tire.

I am seriously at the point where I want the same kind of tires that could survive on an up-armored HUMVEE. I can save my light, fragile tires for triathlons, but I am sick of crashing and hurting myself on every day training rides.
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Old 09-22-23, 11:19 PM
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Tannis tires. Maybe ride harsh and slow, but they won't flat. Whenever I've had a run of flats, I've spent the next few evenings researching Tannis until I cooled off. But then I've never crashed from a flat.

I ran over a brad (front) and drywall screw (rear) on my evening commute the other day. Tubeless got me home. There was some sealant spraying drama, and the rear tire home repair was finicky, but I didn't even do a search for Tannis afterwards.

I've never found any puncture resistant tires that stood up to urban bike lane debris.
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Old 09-22-23, 11:48 PM
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slime tubes alongwith gatorskins
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Old 09-23-23, 01:42 AM
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My area has a massive amount of goathead plants. The goatheads are everywhere: streets, sidewalks, bike trails, etc. I would repair 2 or 3 holes a day. After researching I bought a pair of Tannus Armour liners and a pair of Sunlite thorn resistant tubes. They are heavier and slower than normal, but I didn't care after all the repairs I was doing. I've ridden my bike now for 400 total miles without any issues.

If you consider going this route just know that the tubes are smaller than what you would normally use because the Tannus liners take up a lot of space. Also know that they are not easy to install without the use of straps to hold the tire in place as you get the last side of the tire over the rim. The total thicknes of the tire, Liner, and tube was 11 mm.
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Old 09-23-23, 05:45 AM
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Had a sudden front flat myself a couple weeks ago. Managed to come to a wobbly stop, but fell over at the very end. Not a scratch, but I managed to pull a muscle in my back. Sorry to hear of your injuries, and I'd be fed up, too. Thanks to your thread here, I learned about Tannus tire liners, and I think I'll try a pair.
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Old 09-23-23, 06:09 AM
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Unless you want to buy new tubeless ready wheels, I would suggest ruling out tubeless.

Attempting to convert older non-tubeless road wheels to tubeless is going to be difficult and problematic.
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Old 09-23-23, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by VegasJen
I crashed again this morning for the the second time in the last two months. Same scenario as before. Front tire went flat in the middle (well, closer to the end) of a ride without me realizing it. I discovered in the middle of a turn as the flat tire just plowed and tossed me off the bike.
Originally Posted by downtube42
Tannis tires. Maybe ride harsh and slow, but they won't flat.
I may not be fully understanding the OP's explanation. But with two recent events not noticing the tire had gone flat until negotiating a turn, I don't think a harsh slow ride will be the first thing she notices. Perhaps these events were at speed and at the moment the tire deflated. Nevertheless, I understand flats happen and there is a potential for accident especially on the front wheel. And I hate to say anything lest it jinx me, but I've always noticed something amiss during a ride when I've had a rapid deflation. I certainly feel it and even as hard of hearing that I am, I can usually hear the oscillating hiss as the tire rotates.

Jen, can you recall anything from the moments just before these crashes that may stand out in the future to provide more of an early warning? And since you also mentioned that you have some liners, I would suggest giving them another go. The liners should help and you already have invested in them.
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Old 09-23-23, 06:55 AM
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If Gatorskins aren't better, try Gatorskin Hardshells. If not that, Schwalbe Marathon Plus are as flatproof as you get.
A bonus is they will definitely help you with your hills, mentioned in another thread. You will get MUCH stronger after riding them for a while.
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Old 09-23-23, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by VegasJen
I am getting extremely tired of picking my old, broken butt off the road because of some stupid thorn or auto tire debris. So I'm considering options to reduce or eliminate this from happening again any time soon.
To be clear, from your own description you didn't crash because the tire went flat; you crashed because you didn't recognize you were riding on a flat tire. Also, based on how little of the thorn went through the casing, your tire didn't lose pressure all at once, but had a slow leak so pressure dropped gradually without your noticing.

Flat will always happen, I would suggest the solution to your crashing problem is to learn to recognize riding on a soft tire rather than the impossible goal of eliminating flats. Try riding a while with your tires at normal pressure then lower the pressure on one a bit and ride paying attention to how it feels, then lower the pressure a bit more and notice the difference. Keep doing this until the tire is almost flat. Do this a few times until you can tell when a tire is going flat. (You could also just look at your tires once in a while as you ride and see if one is going flat.)
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Old 09-23-23, 08:06 AM
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If wherever the OP rides— Nevada?— is so dangerous that even Conti Gatorskins flat as regularly as “regular” road tires, it’s probably worthwhile biting-the-bullet, buying a pair of tubeless-ready wheels, and learn how to live with them. Resolving typical punctures like from thorns, glass, and wire is exactly where tubeless excels.

The other thing, which I can’t avoid thinking about, is that the OP’s two incidents were just an unusual run of bad luck, and this reaction to puncture-proof is really an over-reaction to something unlikely to happen again. I mean, crashing from front wheel flats isn’t really “a thing,” in that it’s not something most of us experience nor is it something most of us take precautions against. It can happen, obviously, but it’s misfortune, not a glaring weak spot in cycling that an industry and culture has overlooked. Right? We don’t run heavier, flat-proof tires up front, do we?

I guess I just think it would be a shame to accept the ride quality penalty of an extreme puncture-resistant setup just to avoid lightning striking thrice, if you know what I mean.

Going tubeless is an investment, though, even if maintenance is farmed out a bike shop, and if the OP doesn’t want to make that investment and doesn’t want to face the possibility of going down again, I’d suggest getting a pair of Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires, which are probably the most flat proof pneumatic tire out there. They’re the tires which Citibikes use (in the Plus “e-bike” variant), so that should tell you all you need to know about durability. The 25mm models weigh 595g, more than 2x the mass of the same size Gatorskin, so maybe some lightweighting with TPU tubes would be a nice thing to include, too.
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Old 09-23-23, 08:52 AM
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https://tannus.com/armour/
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Old 09-23-23, 09:53 AM
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If you don’t want your rim sliding along the pavement and out from under you consider tubular tires.I know this idea is likely a non-starter but you will not be going down so quick. As for puncture resistance I can only recommend Orange Seal Endurance. It may be that I am lucky but I get thousands of miles from my Veloflex tires.
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Old 09-23-23, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by VegasJen
I crashed again this morning for the the second time in the last two months. Same scenario as before. Front tire went flat in the middle (well, closer to the end) of a ride without me realizing it.

... So, given my bloviation on the subject, what would you guys recommend?
Originally Posted by asgelle
To be clear, from your own description you didn't crash because the tire went flat; you crashed because you didn't recognize you were riding on a flat tire.
That's pretty much it. Flats will happen. You just need to be more aware of your tires while you're riding.
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Old 09-23-23, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
That's pretty much it. Flats will happen. You just need to be more aware of your tires while you're riding.
Yes. IME, a strangely bouncy ride tells you to check your tires. If there are a lot of seams or rough patches on your roads, the bumps through the bars start feeling less sharp. Since I live in California, my roads are full of seams, busted up asphalt, etc. so I get constant feedback from the tires.

You could try an experiment - take your bike and a pump out to a section of road you ride quite a bit. Try pumping one of your tires up to only half of the normal psi, and ride a bit, noticing how it feels. Watch out for any stones or potholes because you WILL flat if you hit them with so little pressure.
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Old 09-23-23, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by msu2001la
Unless you want to buy new tubeless ready wheels, I would suggest ruling out tubeless.

Attempting to convert older non-tubeless road wheels to tubeless is going to be difficult and problematic.
While I understand this sentiment, I would suggest that you DO convert to tubeless. Do it on the cheap if you must by getting some low cost DT Swiss rims in the correct spoke count of your current wheels then support your LBS and ask them to lace the tubeless ready rims into your existing wheelset. Once the wheels are rebuilt with the new rims you can start shopping for a good tubeless tire set for your rims, and you will also need the tape, the valves, sealant and an inflation system for them. Yeah, it can be daunting but consider it a beneficial challenge. The sooner you get on it, the better off you will be and your future flat avoidance is just ONE of the benefits of your conversion to tubeless. I'm presuming that you are flatting on a road bike but maybe I am off base here.

VegasJen - what wheels are you riding?

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Old 09-23-23, 11:42 AM
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The thing about getting new wheels built is that you're talking at least $120 for the rims alone. Then there's what the LBS will charge you to rebuild the wheels - taking apart the old ones and rebuilding, truing, detensioning, re-truing - which is a bit of work. I talked to my LBS about rebuilding ONE wheel, and I'd provide the rim. Labor was going to be $125. Admittedly, this is a high-end bike shop in one of the most expensive places in America, but still, it gives you some idea of the cost.
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Old 09-23-23, 11:51 AM
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Get tubeless wheels if you need them and run tubeless tires. I have been running GP5000s and Vittoria Corsa. The Vittoria seem to last longer, but I like the ride of the GP5000s better. If you have been running something like a Gator-skin or an Armadillo or a Marathon you will notice the improvement in ride and speed.

I noticed that my rear tire was low on pressure on my ride this morning when I was about 8 miles from home. But it didn't go completely flat, and I rode it home.

Once I got home, inspection showed a fresh cut of about 4 mm in the tread. Pressure had dropped from the 6.2 bar (90 psi) I started with to about 3 bar. Since it had been a few months since I had added sealant I put 40 ml of Orange Seal Endurance sealant in the tire and put it back to full pressure.

Note that what I did not do was spend time on the side of the road in the rain patching or replacing a tube. I also didn't have a tire go completely flat and dump me on the pavement when I turned.

A low end tubeless carbon wheel set will run you under $700. You can get an aluminum DT Swiss tubeless wheel set for a bit less. Better than a crash.
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Old 09-23-23, 12:51 PM
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Do you check your tires pressure before you ride your bike? If not, then you might actually be getting pinch flats. They don't always have the two punctures that earn them their other name as snake bites. Every flat needs to be diagnosed. Lay the tube out on the wheel rim as it was oriented in the wheel, then inflate it to find the leak. Is the hole on the tread side, rim side or sidewall? If you are on the roadside in a hurry, put in the new tube and save the old to check at home.

I am just about to wear down the GP5000 on my rear to the threads showing. I haven't flatted since putting it on over 2 years ago.

If Gatorskins didn't help you, then I'd suspect many of your flats aren't from road punctures. So getting rid of the tube and going tubeless might be helpful. So consider it if you are up for that understand the new things you'll have to do every great once in a while.
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Old 09-23-23, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
The thing about getting new wheels built is that you're talking at least $120 for the rims alone. Then there's what the LBS will charge you to rebuild the wheels - taking apart the old ones and rebuilding, truing, detensioning, re-truing - which is a bit of work. I talked to my LBS about rebuilding ONE wheel, and I'd provide the rim. Labor was going to be $125. Admittedly, this is a high-end bike shop in one of the most expensive places in America, but still, it gives you some idea of the cost.
I get it that the prices add up. 125$ for labor does sound like the labor rate for a more expensive market. My LBS mechanic used to charge $40 per wheel, now he is charging $50 per wheel (or may have raised it now to 55 per wheel now). He custom cuts DT Swiss butted standard or ultralight spokes and all new spokes and spoke nipples would be recommended as well. The DT Swiss R460 rims sell for about $60 each now. I suppose that purchasing a complete tubeless ready wheelset does start to make financial sense. Some English bike mailorder places like Merlin have some pretty great deals on Fulcrum, and maybe Mavic wheelsets that would be tubeless ready for good bargains.

Am still awaiting the OP to outline what exact gear she(or he) is using presently.
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Old 09-23-23, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by VegasJen
...I think I would prefer a more puncture resistant tire...
Did I miss it?
What kind of tires wheels and tubes are you currently using?
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Old 09-23-23, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61
I get it that the prices add up. 125$ for labor does sound like the labor rate for a more expensive market. My LBS mechanic used to charge $40 per wheel, now he is charging $50 per wheel (or may have raised it now to 55 per wheel now). He custom cuts DT Swiss butted standard or ultralight spokes and all new spokes and spoke nipples would be recommended as well. The DT Swiss R460 rims sell for about $60 each now. I suppose that purchasing a complete tubeless ready wheelset does start to make financial sense. Some English bike mailorder places like Merlin have some pretty great deals on Fulcrum, and maybe Mavic wheelsets that would be tubeless ready for good bargains.

Am still awaiting the OP to outline what exact gear she(or he) is using presently.
This. I have gotten two nice sets of Fulcrums from PBK for a bargain price, and they arrived surprisingly quickly.
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Old 09-23-23, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
This. I have gotten two nice sets of Fulcrums from PBK for a bargain price, and they arrived surprisingly quickly.
Good to know. I was just surveying the Merlin site and a lot of the budget Fulcrum sets that are on there are "out of stock".
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Old 09-23-23, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61
Good to know. I was just surveying the Merlin site and a lot of the budget Fulcrum sets that are on there are "out of stock".
Bad news - no Fulcrums on PBK at the moment.
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