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Another Op-Ed related to steel vs CF

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Another Op-Ed related to steel vs CF

Old 02-12-24, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
And, in competition, considerably slower wheel swaps. Wout van Aert lost nearly a minute getting a wheel from a teammate at Clásica Jaén in Spain today and didn't succeed in the chase. Faster change with rim brakes and quick releases? We won't know but it a good bet. Faster wheel changes = more race placings = more money and = better sponsor advertising.
That’s a really compelling reason to go back to rim brakes 😂 But it doesn’t actually take a whole minute to change a disc wheel.
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Old 02-12-24, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
And, in competition, considerably slower wheel swaps. Wout van Aert lost nearly a minute getting a wheel from a teammate at Clásica Jaén in Spain today and didn't succeed in the chase. Faster change with rim brakes and quick releases?
The wheel change took 38 seconds, which is pretty slow, but it didn't look like van Aert was in a big hurry to get it done.
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Old 02-12-24, 07:56 PM
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Forgot about that: idiotic thru-axle systems only required due to disc brakes, and the associated glacial wheel changes. With rim brakes and standard road width rims, you flip the QR lever and the wheel drops out. New wheel drops straight in - you don't have to spin or fiddle with anything. 5 seconds.

But with thru-axles (which to be clear are not actually axles) you have to spin a lever until the axle comes out, insert a wheel trying aiming at that 3mm gap between the disc pads, and then spin the axle back in. Of course the rotors will rub, requiring you to loosen the bolts on the calipers, re-align the calipers, retighten the bolts, and then pray. It is for this reason that pro teams just swap with the backup bikes on the team car.

Of course, there are 10 different thru-axle "standards" designed to fit different brands and dropout widths.
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Old 02-12-24, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Forgot about that: idiotic thru-axle systems only required due to disc brakes, and the associated glacial wheel changes. With rim brakes and standard road width rims, you flip the QR lever and the wheel drops out. New wheel drops straight in - you don't have to spin or fiddle with anything. 5 seconds.
And nobody ever pulled their wheel out of a horizontal dropout, or just pulled it askew.

But with thru-axles (which to be clear are not actually axles) you have to spin a lever until the axle comes out, insert a wheel trying aiming at that 3mm gap between the disc pads, and then spin the axle back in. Of course the rotors will rub, requiring you to loosen the bolts on the calipers, re-align the calipers, retighten the bolts, and then pray. It is for this reason that pro teams just swap with the backup bikes on the team car.
Right, because team mechanics are too stupid to make sure they can swap the wheels without the pads rubbing.

Of course, there are 10 different thru-axle "standards" designed to fit different brands and dropout widths.
Hey, aren't there at least 5 different QR lengths? 100, 120, 126, 130, 135mm?
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Old 02-12-24, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Forgot about that: idiotic thru-axle systems only required due to disc brakes, and the associated glacial wheel changes. With rim brakes and standard road width rims, you flip the QR lever and the wheel drops out. New wheel drops straight in - you don't have to spin or fiddle with anything. 5 seconds.

But with thru-axles (which to be clear are not actually axles) you have to spin a lever until the axle comes out, insert a wheel trying aiming at that 3mm gap between the disc pads, and then spin the axle back in. Of course the rotors will rub, requiring you to loosen the bolts on the calipers, re-align the calipers, retighten the bolts, and then pray. It is for this reason that pro teams just swap with the backup bikes on the team car.

Of course, there are 10 different thru-axle "standards" designed to fit different brands and dropout widths.
And, wheel changes often require bike swaps later. Pad rub? Riders on ill-fitting teammate's bikes are seen a lot more now. That used to be after a mechanical or crash. Now, flats are called mechanicals!
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Old 02-12-24, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
And, in competition, considerably slower wheel swaps. Wout van Aert lost nearly a minute getting a wheel from a teammate at Clásica Jaén in Spain today and didn't succeed in the chase. Faster change with rim brakes and quick releases? We won't know but it a good bet. Faster wheel changes = more race placings = more money and = better sponsor advertising.
We've seen people fumble around with wheel changes before there were disc brakes.
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Old 02-12-24, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Forgot about that: idiotic thru-axle systems only required due to disc brakes, and the associated glacial wheel changes. With rim brakes and standard road width rims, you flip the QR lever and the wheel drops out. New wheel drops straight in - you don't have to spin or fiddle with anything. 5 seconds.
The first time I saw you post this malarkey I timed the wheel off then back on with my disc brake mtb and it was about 10 seconds.

And you do have to spin the QR if you have lawyer tabs.
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Old 02-12-24, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by big john
We've seen people fumble around with wheel changes before there were disc brakes.
Even Rae Dawn Chong sometimes messes up a wheel change.
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Old 02-12-24, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer

As far as disc brakes on road bikes, maybe if you are doing bike camping in the rain, then I would recommend discs, but for a performance go-fast bike, discs are not worth the weight penalty. As with other nonsense such as tubeless and fat (>28mm tires) they are just an inappropriate port-over from mountain bikes, designed to appeal to new road riders who don’t know any better.

The disc penalty is not just about the weight of the rotors, hydraulic lines, heavier calipers etc., but the frame reinforcements required to withstand the braking forces of discs. As mentioned earlier, the forces from braking on discs travels from the ground to the fork ends and then to the frame, an inferior path than with rim brakes. So you have to reinforce the forks, leading to a stiffer less compliant ride. Plus you have to add more crossed spokes in disc wheels, again more weight at the worst possible place on a bike.

In addition to the weight penalty, manufacturers have to add $500 to the cost of each new bike with discs, regardless of the cost, for no other reason that they can.
To read this one might think the weight added is several kilos. You know there are disc brake bikes which are at the UCI minimum, right?

And people who buy disc brake road bike just don't know any better? You know there are people who want discs, right? Are they just stupid?

If most buyers were like you discs never could have become so dominant.
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Old 02-12-24, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Even Rae Dawn Chong sometimes messes up a wheel change.
I don't get the reference but maybe she got into her father's product.
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Old 02-12-24, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by big john
I don't get the reference but maybe she got into her father's product.
Movie scene -- American Flyers.
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Old 02-12-24, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Movie scene -- American Flyers.
Duh. Been a long time since I've seen it.
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Old 02-12-24, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by big john
To read this one might think the weight added is several kilos. You know there are disc brake bikes which are at the UCI minimum, right?

And people who buy disc brake road bike just don't know any better? You know there are people who want discs, right? Are they just stupid?

If most buyers were like you discs never could have become so dominant
.
Silly - we're all just sheep, doing whatever Big Disc wants them to do. And those of us who have both disc brakes and rim brakes are simply unwilling to admit that we made a mistake, and so many of us go out and spend thousands more just to prove we didn't make a mistake buying a disk bike in the first place!
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Old 02-13-24, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Is this guy for real?
I was going to post another page-long comment when I saw that it was one of the posters who ...... never mind.
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Old 02-13-24, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
I was going to post another page-long comment when I saw that it was one of the posters who ...... never mind.
Yeah, that “platinum card” guy is not worth the effort replying to. He just pops up with exactly the same comedy routine, which was not even funny the first time. I honestly don’t think he is for real. But you never can tell 😂
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Old 02-13-24, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by big john
The first time I saw you post this malarkey I timed the wheel off then back on with my disc brake mtb and it was about 10 seconds.

And you do have to spin the QR if you have lawyer tabs.
Agreed. Wheel changes are still quick and easy and I prefer the precision of thru axles. It’s a stupid, pointless argument.
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Old 02-13-24, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
And, wheel changes often require bike swaps later. Pad rub? Riders on ill-fitting teammate's bikes are seen a lot more now. That used to be after a mechanical or crash. Now, flats are called mechanicals!
This is all nonsense too. You do know it’s okay to ride and enjoy your rim braked bike without having to convince everyone that disc brakes are a mistake? These are all flaky, pointless, self-justifying arguments that nobody here who actually rides a disc braked bike cares about.

We have half a dozen bikes in the family with thru axles and I find that swapping wheels is trivially easy and quick on all of them. Maybe it really does take a few seconds longer, but certainly not enough to care.
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Old 02-13-24, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by big john

And people who buy disc brake road bike just don't know any better? You know there are people who want discs, right? Are they just stupid?
That is certainly his premise and why he gets the backlash it deserves.
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Old 02-13-24, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
That is certainly his premise and why he gets the backlash it deserves.
This statement is a perfect example of what is wrong with Bikeforums. Some of you think that having opinions about how bikes work that you disagree with licenses you to act like awful human beings.

It's just a bike. Stop acting like a bunch of mean girls because someone didn't talk nice about yours.
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Old 02-13-24, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
This statement is a perfect example of what is wrong with Bikeforums. Some of you think that having opinions about how bikes work that you disagree with licenses you to act like awful human beings.

It's just a bike. Stop acting like a bunch of mean girls because someone didn't talk nice about yours.
No, it's obvious when someone is just being obnoxious to get a reaction. That particular guy does nothing else.
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Old 02-13-24, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
This statement is a perfect example of what is wrong with Bikeforums. Some of you think that having opinions about how bikes work that you disagree with licenses you to act like awful human beings.

It's just a bike. Stop acting like a bunch of mean girls because someone didn't talk nice about yours.
It’s not an issue of opinions. The poster repeats the same (easily verifiable) false statements over and over.
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Old 02-13-24, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
This statement is a perfect example of what is wrong with Bikeforums. Some of you think that having opinions about how bikes work that you disagree with licenses you to act like awful human beings.
It's just a bike. Stop acting like a bunch of mean girls because someone didn't talk nice about yours.
Folks who impede 'progress' and increased bike sales and profits are indeed awful human beings. The bike industry, as bad as shape as it is in right now needs spokespeople and influencers to dispel any contradictory opinions that newer isn't always better. Paid positions perhaps to monitor and steer the discussion on forums and social media towards the new and shinier! Change over the bike fleet ASAP!
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Old 02-13-24, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Folks who impede 'progress' and increased bike sales and profits are indeed awful human beings. The bike industry, as bad as shape as it is in right now needs spokespeople and influencers to dispel any contradictory opinions that newer isn't always better. Paid positions perhaps to monitor and steer the discussion on forums and social media towards the new and shinier! Change over the bike fleet ASAP!
Conspiracy theory now then. I’m just going to sit back and enjoy the show. 😂
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Old 02-13-24, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Folks who impede 'progress' and increased bike sales and profits are indeed awful human beings. The bike industry, as bad as shape as it is in right now needs spokespeople and influencers to dispel any contradictory opinions that newer isn't always better. Paid positions perhaps to monitor and steer the discussion on forums and social media towards the new and shinier! Change over the bike fleet ASAP!
Pretty sure there's no danger of that.
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Old 02-13-24, 05:47 PM
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You 10 second disc wheel changers help me out here. In the old days I would drop the chain to the smallest cog to make removing and reinserting a QR wheel easier.

If I do that on my disc brake bikes, it seems to make the wheel move left as I pull back the RD to let the wheel in, the top jockey wheel swings inboard -making the rotor scrape on the NDS chainstay. Bad. This is particularly on a GRX shadow mech. Not noticed it so much on 105.

Should I be intentionally leaving the chain further up the cassette? Makes it harder to clear the derailleur though.
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