Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

WTF is happening to roadie outfits/brands? more flashy more expensive?

Notices
Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

WTF is happening to roadie outfits/brands? more flashy more expensive?

Old 05-08-24, 02:49 AM
  #176  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 9,337
Liked 5,480 Times in 3,382 Posts
Originally Posted by Eric F
I havenít seen the top Primal jersey in person, so I canít judge any more than images, but it the pics and video Iíve seen seem to indicate that they might be expanding into a higher level.

Iíve bumped into the sales limitations with some of the brands Iíve been interested in, but Iíve also scored a lot of good to really nice stuff at attractive prices in normal colors (my tastes are pretty mild) that fit me really well from Le Col, La Passione, and Pactimo. Maybe Iíve just been lucky.
Le Col is always on sale here in the UK. To the extent that I think their full retail pricing is just a joke. I think their quality is ok, but not on a par with Assos. Perpetual sale pricing does make them excellent value though. Their £50 Strava vouchers on top of sale pricing can bring the cost right down, competing directly with the budget brands.
PeteHski is online now  
Old 05-08-24, 08:21 AM
  #177  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,743
Liked 1,236 Times in 802 Posts
Originally Posted by Eric F
To be fair, the current top-end of Primal's jerseys (Alitos series) looks like they could be pretty good. I certainly recall their older stuff being in the ood-to-comical range.
The nice thing about Primal is their outlet is usually full of jersey's that are one sale for a reasonable price.
prj71 is offline  
Old 05-08-24, 08:22 AM
  #178  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,743
Liked 1,236 Times in 802 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
I've seen all brands of jerseys at gravel races. I'm guessing you only see what you want to see.
No. My eyes work just fine.

My Rapha jersey is higher quality than my Primal jerseys. It wasn't expensive, and it wasn't manufactured in China. My wife's Primal jerseys were made in China.
https://content.rapha.cc/us/en/a/story/ktc-china
prj71 is offline  
Old 05-08-24, 08:26 AM
  #179  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,743
Liked 1,236 Times in 802 Posts
Originally Posted by shelbyfv
That's not surprising at all. High end isn't for everyone. But kudos for being able to scope everyone's jersey. I usually have tunnel vision, focused on the next killer washout or pothole.
Definitely!!! Got pay attention sometimes!! There were also times, where I was grouped with other racers and we worked with each other at times for drafting. That's when I was able to see what others were wearing.

This was a 2 mile segment on the 100+ mile course of the race. No time to look at Jerseys!!! There was an also a crazy downhill that sent 3 people to the hospital.



Last edited by prj71; 05-08-24 at 08:32 AM.
prj71 is offline  
Likes For prj71:
Old 05-08-24, 08:29 AM
  #180  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,743
Liked 1,236 Times in 802 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
I donít know about gravel races, but I see plenty of Rapha and Assos at every road event I enter. Where was this race where nobody was wearing a high-end jersey?
Wisconsin.

Not to say there wasn't any, but not that I noticed. 400+ people raced the event so I didn't see everyone!!!
prj71 is offline  
Old 05-08-24, 08:33 AM
  #181  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: Prairie
Posts: 90

Bikes: SuperCaliber, SuperSix Evo

Liked 39 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by prj71
Definitely!!! Got pay attention sometimes!! There were also times, where I was grouped with other racers and we worked with each other at times for drafting. That's when I was able to see what others were wearing.

This was a 2 mile segment on the 100+ mile course of the race. No time to look at Jerseys!!! There was an also a crazy downhill that sent 3 people to the hospital.


I thought I wanted a gravel bike until thisÖ😀
McFlyRides is online now  
Likes For McFlyRides:
Old 05-08-24, 08:55 AM
  #182  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,743
Liked 1,236 Times in 802 Posts
Ha!!!

The race director thought he would throw that and a 3 mile section of sand in the race. Gotta keep everyone on their toes!
prj71 is offline  
Likes For prj71:
Old 05-08-24, 08:55 AM
  #183  
Expired Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 12,256
Liked 6,160 Times in 3,107 Posts
Originally Posted by prj71
The nice thing about Primal is their outlet is usually full of jersey's that are one sale for a reasonable price.
Yes, but how many would you wear? Looks like over 100 choices but only about 10% aren't clown stuff. Skeletons, tuxedos, old bands, flowers.... Anyway, our club jerseys have been Primal a couple of times and I liked the fit.
shelbyfv is offline  
Old 05-08-24, 09:03 AM
  #184  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,743
Liked 1,236 Times in 802 Posts
Originally Posted by shelbyfv
Yes, but how many would you wear? Looks like over 100 choices but only about 10% aren't clown stuff. Skeletons, tuxedos, old bands, flowers.... Anyway, our club jerseys have been Primal a couple of times and I liked the fit.
I've got 4 Primal jerseys in the closet now. I don't mind the skeletons etc. I've actually been thinking about buying the tuxedo one!
prj71 is offline  
Old 05-08-24, 09:16 AM
  #185  
Not actually Tmonk
 
TMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 14,713

Bikes: road, track, mtb

Liked 3,609 Times in 1,883 Posts
I see more spendy kits at spendy events, fondos, gravel, that sort of thing. USAC road events tend to have riders on generic kit, club kit at 3/4/5 level and team issue stuff at elite or elite Master's.

I've still yet to try anything Rapha or Assos or equivalent, maybe I'll try someday if/when I no longer have team benefits. Hopefully I have another couple of decades of Master's racing before I need to learn
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
TMonk is online now  
Old 05-08-24, 09:22 AM
  #186  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: Prairie
Posts: 90

Bikes: SuperCaliber, SuperSix Evo

Liked 39 Times in 33 Posts
[QUOTE=prj71;23234678]Ha!!!

The race director thought he would throw that and a 3 mile section of sand in the race. Gotta keep everyone on their toes![/QUOTE

Does anyone make a cycling-specific snorkel?
McFlyRides is online now  
Likes For McFlyRides:
Old 05-08-24, 09:28 AM
  #187  
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 8,521

Bikes: 2023 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2018 Trek Procaliber 9.9 RSL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Liked 8,762 Times in 4,124 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
Le Col is always on sale here in the UK. To the extent that I think their full retail pricing is just a joke. I think their quality is ok, but not on a par with Assos. Perpetual sale pricing does make them excellent value though. Their £50 Strava vouchers on top of sale pricing can bring the cost right down, competing directly with the budget brands.
I agree that Le Col's pricing discounts and sales patterns are kind of wonky. However, I do like their fabrics, but their size that fits my chest (XL) is a bit too long for my torso. Le Col is close to right, but La Passione, Pactimo, and even NeoPro fit my dimensions better.
__________________
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
Eric F is offline  
Old 05-08-24, 10:18 AM
  #188  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,348

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Liked 8,056 Times in 3,202 Posts
Originally Posted by prj71
No. My eyes work just fine.
I'm sure they do, but they're not the problem
I don't know why you continue to push this "Clothing made in China is inferior" crap. As others have noted, it's a load of bs. But, since you seem to believe it, it's confusing why you're using it to support your arguement that Rapha jerseys are inferior to your Primal jerseys:




As a side note, about one-quarter of Rapha clothing is made in China:
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 05-08-24, 10:33 AM
  #189  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,743
Liked 1,236 Times in 802 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe

I don't know why you continue to push this "Clothing made in China is inferior" crap.
I never said such a thing about them being crap anywhere in this discussion.

I just pointed out Rapha is made in China just like some of the others. Except they think their stuff is that much better and charge more.
prj71 is offline  
Old 05-08-24, 10:40 AM
  #190  
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 8,521

Bikes: 2023 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2018 Trek Procaliber 9.9 RSL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Liked 8,762 Times in 4,124 Posts
Originally Posted by prj71
I just pointed out Rapha is made in China just like some of the others. Except they think their stuff is that much better and charge more.
Are you under the impression that all products of the same type, made in the same country, are the same quality?
__________________
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
Eric F is offline  
Likes For Eric F:
Old 05-08-24, 10:45 AM
  #191  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 9,337
Liked 5,480 Times in 3,382 Posts
Originally Posted by prj71

I just pointed out Rapha is made in China just like some of the others. Except they think their stuff is that much better and charge more.
So are you suggesting that everything made in China is of equal quality? In reality they cover the entire quality spectrum from garbage to elite.
PeteHski is online now  
Old 05-08-24, 11:37 AM
  #192  
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,873

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Liked 7,835 Times in 4,347 Posts
Originally Posted by prj71
I never said such a thing about them being crap anywhere in this discussion.

I just pointed out Rapha is made in China just like some of the others. Except they think their stuff is that much better and charge more.
Your second sentence doesnt really support your first sentence. It doesnt outright conflict with your first sentence, but it sure doesnt support your first sentence.

Products that are of poor quality are produced in China.
Products that are of high quality are produced in China.
Products that are of poor quality are produced in the US.
Products that are of high quality are produced in the US.

Perhaps Rapha things their stuff is better and charge more compared to some other clothing produced in China because their stuff is better, as measured by whatever metrics Rapha uses.
I mean really now- have you never considered this? Its a simple concept and seems quite obvious.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 05-08-24, 11:50 AM
  #193  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,348

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Liked 8,056 Times in 3,202 Posts
Originally Posted by prj71
I just pointed out Rapha is made in China just like some of the others.
I think everyone understood what you were implying. And, why do you keep stating that Rapha is made in China when most of it is not?
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 05-08-24, 11:58 AM
  #194  
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 8,521

Bikes: 2023 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2018 Trek Procaliber 9.9 RSL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Liked 8,762 Times in 4,124 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Perhaps Rapha things their stuff is better and charge more compared to some other clothing produced in China because their stuff is better, as measured by whatever metrics Rapha uses.
I mean really now- have you never considered this? Its a simple concept and seems quite obvious.
There's also the very real possibility that Rapha has done a very good job with marketing in order to inflate their desirability. After all, we are talking about the fashion industry.
__________________
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
Eric F is offline  
Likes For Eric F:
Old 05-08-24, 12:24 PM
  #195  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,354
Liked 11,661 Times in 4,976 Posts
Originally Posted by prj71
I just pointed out Rapha is made in China just like some of the others. Except they think their stuff is that much better and charge more.
So you believe that every jersey manufactured in China, regardless of brand, is of exactly the same quality? I mean, you don't have to understand much about production offshoring to know that that is laughable.

Originally Posted by prj71
I've got 4 Primal jerseys in the closet now. I don't mind the skeletons etc. I've actually been thinking about buying the tuxedo one!
More than any of the fact-free and logic-free things you've previously written, this alone should disqualify you from offering any opinions on other people's jerseys.
Koyote is online now  
Old 05-08-24, 12:31 PM
  #196  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,743
Liked 1,236 Times in 802 Posts
Originally Posted by Eric F
There's also the very real possibility that Rapha has done a very good job with marketing in order to inflate their desirability. After all, we are talking about the fashion industry.
Bingo.

It's very prevalent within the apparel industry.

Last edited by prj71; 05-08-24 at 12:58 PM.
prj71 is offline  
Likes For prj71:
Old 05-08-24, 12:53 PM
  #197  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,743
Liked 1,236 Times in 802 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote
So you believe that every jersey manufactured in China, regardless of brand, is of exactly the same quality? I mean, you don't have to understand much about production offshoring to know that that is laughable.
Don't go putting words in my mouth. Plenty of high quality products made in China including my Primal jerseys!!!

It's just that some have a premium price tag due to brand name recognition and big time marketing within the industry. I think the way Rapha and others market their jerseys, they would have you believe their stuff is woven from the silk of virgin silkworms fed on the leaves from Mulberry trees fertilized by Unicorn sh!!!T!!

All of these luxury brands have a huge cost-intensive marketing machine that makes their clothing more expensive....Team sponsorships,,,,brick and mortar stores...flashy websites...social media influencers...website ads...paid reviews...podcasts...Google ads etc. They don't come for free!!! And the thing is....they are not actually trying to convince you to buy their products...They are trying to convince you to buy into a brand and attach yourself to it. Humans have strong tribal instincts and Rapha and others want you to decide that Rapha clothing is your brand!!

It would be interesting to know what percentage of the price of any piece of Rapha gear goes into manufacturing/materials and what percentage goes into marketing. I'm betting it's pretty lopsided towards the marketing end of things. At the end of the day, it's just moisture wicking fabric that's sewn together and made in China. And with all that they've spent on marketing, they've paid vastly more to sell you that jersey then they've paid to make you that jersey. Fact. And that's the same for many discretionary products these days, it's not just limited to cycling apparel.

Last edited by prj71; 05-08-24 at 12:57 PM.
prj71 is offline  
Old 05-08-24, 12:56 PM
  #198  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,348

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Liked 8,056 Times in 3,202 Posts
So, here we are again:

1) Someone that has never owned a particular brand of clothing insists it is no better than the less expensive brands that they own.

2) Several people that have owned that particular brand of clothing and less expensive brands agree that, while less expensive brands can be good, they are not as good as the particular brand.
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 05-08-24, 01:11 PM
  #199  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,743
Liked 1,236 Times in 802 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
So, here we are again:

1) Someone that has never owned a particular brand of clothing insists it is no better than the less expensive brands that they own.

2) Several people that have owned that particular brand of clothing and less expensive brands agree that, while less expensive brands can be good, they are not as good as the particular brand.
Feel free to buy into luxury fitness apparel!!! It's all good!!

But lets face the truth here...You can't exactly say that cycling is an accessible sport for a lot of people any more. All driven by the expensive brands and their big marketing!!. From the bikes to the wheels to the clothes to the nutritional items etc. It's full of prices significantly inflated by a massive marketing arms race.

Maybe Rapha is running out of dentists and the vanity is wearing off?

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/r...ars-in-the-red
prj71 is offline  
Old 05-08-24, 01:24 PM
  #200  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,354
Liked 11,661 Times in 4,976 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
So, here we are again:

1) Someone that has never owned a particular brand of clothing insists it is no better than the less expensive brands that they own.

2) Several people that have owned that particular brand of clothing and less expensive brands agree that, while less expensive brands can be good, they are not as good as the particular brand.
In modern day 'Merica, people don't need facts or knowledge to know things. Truthiness!
Koyote is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.