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Least proprietary current production road endurance bike

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Least proprietary current production road endurance bike

Old 05-06-24, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve B.
Curious why swap something like a seat post ?. Not much functional difference with seat post, unless you like to change setback ?. As well, I tend to find a h-bar and leave it alone as too much effort to swap out all the stuff.

I pondered this with a recent Emonda purchase, it had a proprietary seat post. I realized I generally set the seat height and other then a once per year removal to relube, never touch it, so it really didn’t need to be a generic post.
I don't change seatpost often. I had a seatpost in my gravel bikes for 6 years, then changed it 2 years ago and still use the one I have.

You are correct in saying most stuff won't move after the initial setup is locked in.
For seatposts though, I am just not interested in even chancing things with usong one of the clamping designs that haven't worked well thru the years and creak or slip. There is 0 upside for me, when an integrated collar or external collar both work flawlessly.

As for bars- like you, once the stem length and angle as well as bar angle is set to my liking, I don't change it. But I don't view an integrated stem and bar setup as an improvement to my enjoyment. It may take multiple sizes to get the fit right, which is expensive. Or it may not be available (which is well documented for some bikes).


Correct though- once they are locked in for fit, I don't frequently change. Its probably been 3 years since I changed the height or angle of my bars, stem, or seatpost on my main road bike and gravel bike.
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Old 05-06-24, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
I don't change seatpost often. I had a seatpost in my gravel bikes for 6 years, then changed it 2 years ago and still use the one I have.

You are correct in saying most stuff won't move after the initial setup is locked in.
For seatposts though, I am just not interested in even chancing things with usong one of the clamping designs that haven't worked well thru the years and creak or slip. There is 0 upside for me, when an integrated collar or external collar both work flawlessly.

As for bars- like you, once the stem length and angle as well as bar angle is set to my liking, I don't change it. But I don't view an integrated stem and bar setup as an improvement to my enjoyment. It may take multiple sizes to get the fit right, which is expensive. Or it may not be available (which is well documented for some bikes).


Correct though- once they are locked in for fit, I don't frequently change. Its probably been 3 years since I changed the height or angle of my bars, stem, or seatpost on my main road bike and gravel bike.
I briefly looked at the Trek carbon integrated stem/bar system. While I think I could find a model that replicates what is now a good bar width and stem length and angle, it’s $600, plus around $80 to $100 for a mount for a Garmin and I can only think it all looks pretty but has zero practical benefit. I do like the flat part of the top of the bar, but I can get that in a $250 carbon bar and save $350. In changing nothing bottom line.
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Old 05-06-24, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve B.
I briefly looked at the Trek carbon integrated stem/bar system. While I think I could find a model that replicates what is now a good bar width and stem length and angle, it’s $600, plus around $80 to $100 for a mount for a Garmin and I can only think it all looks pretty but has zero practical benefit. I do like the flat part of the top of the bar, but I can get that in a $250 carbon bar and save $350. In changing nothing bottom line.
Yeah, this. A specific example that hits to what I said, and makes the point in fewer words.
Thanks.

On a related note- I think Canyon's integrated stem and bar for their Endurace models isnt changeable in the US. Canyon just doesnt even offer other lengths, angles, etc.
Now obviously that isnt the case for all bikes, but its another example of no actual overall benefit and being stuck with what you have due to high cost or lack of availability.
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Old 05-06-24, 03:50 PM
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Woah, this thread blew up! I was away for a few days and surprised to see so much activity. Thanks to everyone for their suggestions!

Re: Look 756, it's a bit out of my price range but it looks pretty good. I'll have to see if I can find a Felt and/or Cervelo to test ride locally. The Synapse is still a contender since the SmartSense is fully removable.

Re: why not build a custom bike/buy a used one, I might end up doing that but just wanted to see what's available new and complete. This purchase involves some grant money and I have to submit receipts. Probably would be a lot easier to have one receipt that shows the whole bike rather than ~20 for all the components or some hand-written note. I'd appreciate not derailing the conversation to this aspect of it though. Thanks.

Like Iride01 said, It does seem that every manufacturer wants to have at least ONE proprietary thing on any bike, possibly to set themselves apart. Other than perhaps the more "classic" steel bikes.

mstateglfr does a good job summarizing why I'm not a big fan of that stuff. I like working on my stuff. Bikes, cars, house etc. I like doing all my own work. Things that complicate repairs/maintenance, I generally avoid if possible. Headset routing included. To each their own though, I'm not here to preach, just looking for input. Also, I'm just nowhere near that fast that the marginal gains of these things are worth the extra trouble.

Originally Posted by Iride01
So what are your real requirements. Road bike you pick depends on a lot of other stuff. Such as what position do you want the bike to give you. Very aero, not so aero or not aero whatsoever??
Of the three, I'd have to pick "not so aero". A bit sporty (not looking for a beach cruiser here) but I want it to be comfortable for longer rides. Having test ridden the Domane fairly recently, I think that is about the position I'm looking for.
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Old 05-07-24, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by danko
Like Iride01 said, It does seem that every manufacturer wants to have at least ONE proprietary thing on any bike, possibly to set themselves apart. Other than perhaps the more "classic" steel bikes.
I don't think I said that. Of the big three or four brands sold here in the USA that I looked at, all had bikes that I didn't see any proprietary stuff on them. The proprietary stuff starts coming in when you are looking at higher tier bikes with DuraAce or whatever is SRAM's best component group. I can find the same model frame or maybe a previous years version of that same model frameset with lower tier groupsets like Tiagra or 105. Sometimes even with Ultegra being sold as new. All with no proprietary stuff. Or at least with none that prevents aftermarket components of others being used.

Of course the new higher tier bikes with the seat mast will likely be something that in later years will be pushed down to the lower tier bikes as the new version frame of that model will become the highest tier equipped bike. So possibly there is a future for us where we'll have to accept bikes with proprietary stuff that might not be so easily replaceable with aftermarket stuff.

Last edited by Iride01; 05-07-24 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 05-07-24, 11:37 AM
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Maybe a Canyon? My wife has an Ultimate and I have an Aeroad and we love them.

https://www.canyon.com/en-us/road-bi...n-product-grid
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Old 05-07-24, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bruce19
Maybe a Canyon? My wife has an Ultimate and I have an Aeroad and we love them.

https://www.canyon.com/en-us/road-bi...n-product-grid
Press-fit BB
Much less common 1 1/4" steerer tube so any stem swapping for fit is annoying
No fender mounts
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Old 05-08-24, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by surak
Press-fit BB
Much less common 1 1/4" steerer tube so any stem swapping for fit is annoying
No fender mounts
How hard can it be to source a 1 1/4” stem? It might be less common, but there are plenty of popular bikes using that size.

No fender mounts could be an issue for some, although there are still some fender options available.
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Old 05-08-24, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
How hard can it be to source a 1 1/4” stem? It might be less common, but there are plenty of popular bikes using that size.

No fender mounts could be an issue for some, although there are still some fender options available.
It's flippin annoying. Not all stems are the same stack height. I have 2 bikes with 1 1/4" steerers and the choices for stems are terrible. Canyon never had any stems in stock for years when I needed a 100mm to replace a 90mm that came with my Inflite, and the Giant OD2s I sourced from eBay for my other bike looked awful on it, so I ended up getting a used take-off 110mm that someone at work was selling by happenstance.

On the online discussion site that rhymes with "fred fit", censored by BF, are threads where people complain about the lack of options, often trying to ask the community for swaps. It's far more work to find a good oversized stem compared to a standard diameter one.

And no clip-on fenders are even close to as good as full fenders that can use mounts. It's an issue "for some" including the OP, who specifically mentioned it in their requirements.
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Old 05-08-24, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by surak
It's flippin annoying. Not all stems are the same stack height. I have 2 bikes with 1 1/4" steerers and the choices for stems are terrible. Canyon never had any stems in stock for years when I needed a 100mm to replace a 90mm that came with my Inflite, and the Giant OD2s I sourced from eBay for my other bike looked awful on it, so I ended up getting a used take-off 110mm that someone at work was selling by happenstance.

On the online discussion site that rhymes with "fred fit", censored by BF, are threads where people complain about the lack of options, often trying to ask the community for swaps. It's far more work to find a good oversized stem compared to a standard diameter one.

And no clip-on fenders are even close to as good as full fenders that can use mounts. It's an issue "for some" including the OP, who specifically mentioned it in their requirements.
Yeah, if fender mounts are a must-have then you are out of luck with Canyon. Next.
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Old 05-08-24, 01:01 PM
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My 2014 Bianchi frame has press-fit nylon adapters for a stock Shimano bottom bracket for my standard Ultegra crankset.

The nylon bushing is pressed in "permanently" and has internal threads for the threaded bottom bracket.
It's never creaked -- I think the nylon is why.

When I removed the bottom bracket after 5 years, one side threaded back in fairly easily, the other side was possibly cross threaded when assembled, so it was hard to feel the difference between starting cross threaded or just the nylon thread's natural resistance to turning the aluminum bracket. I got a new set of adapters pressed in recently by a local shop. Much better now.
It's a good solution for press fit bottom brackets, I think. Perhaps it won't work with modern frames though?
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Old 05-08-24, 02:13 PM
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XLC makes a pretty lighweight and affordable 1 1/4" stem. Been a Giant fanboy for a while, on my second TCR, but ya I agree that the lack of options in stems are annoying. Not many options, where with regular 1 1/8" you can look at stems and forks till you are blue in the face
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Old 05-08-24, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
How hard can it be to source a 1 1/4” stem?
As far as I could tell (when I considered an Endurace before buying my new Synapse), one is limited to a select few models from Giant, Ritchey, and Zipp.

Last edited by SoSmellyAir; 05-08-24 at 03:53 PM.
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Old 05-08-24, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir
As far as I could tell (when I considered an Endurace before buying my new Synapse), one is limited to a select few models from Giant, Ritchey, and Zipp.
Canyon do sell a range of stems too.
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Old 05-08-24, 06:34 PM
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To add another bike to the mix: I like the look of Standert frames. Reasonable prices for steel/aluminum frames, ships globally. The Pfadfinder is their disc endurance model, but they have a couple of models that might fit your needs. Great colors.
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Old 05-08-24, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Canyon do sell a range of stems too.
"Do sell" may be overstating things with respect to the USA market; almost never in stock here: Canyon V13 1 1/4 Stem | CANYON US
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Old 05-08-24, 11:17 PM
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I have a Soma Fog Cutter, purpose-built for randonneuring. Fender mounts, room for 32mm with fenders (actually 35). Lots of stack for an upright position. Comfortable all-day ride. Unfortunately I think Soma has put proprietary replaceable dropouts on the latest model. I think you could do a 105 mech, hydro disc, aluminum wheels build for under $3k. Maybe not light enough. Carbon wheels as a future upgrade though.

I think OP needs to come up with a list of needs, like stack, reach, mounting points, etc, then go to work researching all the options. There are a lot of bikes out there. This is how I picked the Soma.

After a few seasons riding the Soma I decided I wanted a carbon rando bike for n+1, with a similar goal as the OP. Fender mounts are the real killer, and for me an absolute must. That knocks out Endurance, unfortunately. Also the Defy IIRC. Unfortunately I deleted the spreasheet.

Ended up going with a Domane, foregoing the non-proprietary preference. And indeed I had to buy the longer seatpost for stupid dollars. Sweet ride. I finished Paris Brest Paris literally with a smile on my face. I'm just going to pretend I'll never need to work on that headset

If I were to do it again, I'd try a little harder to find something non-proprietary. So many bikes and frames out there.

Edit: Take a look at Synapse Carbon 3 L at $3k. As stated above, delete the integrated electronics (why'd they do that?). Oh wait. Pressfit? Ugh.

Last edited by downtube42; 05-08-24 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 05-09-24, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by downtube42
Edit: Take a look at Synapse Carbon 3 L at $3k. As stated above, delete the integrated electronics (why'd they do that?). Oh wait. Pressfit? Ugh.
Synapse Carbon 3 L | Endurance Bikes | Cannondale

Synapse Carbon 3 L | Endurance Bikes | Cannondale

Current generation has BSA threaded bottom bracket.
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Old 05-09-24, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir
"Do sell" may be overstating things with respect to the USA market; almost never in stock here: Canyon V13 1 1/4 Stem | CANYON US
Yeah, seems to be less choice and stock in the US for Canyon parts. I didn’t realise a 1 1/4” stem would be such a major issue to source in the US 😂
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Old 05-15-24, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
I don't think I said that. Of the big three or four brands sold here in the USA that I looked at, all had bikes that I didn't see any proprietary stuff on them. The proprietary stuff starts coming in when you are looking at higher tier bikes with DuraAce or whatever is SRAM's best component group. I can find the same model frame or maybe a previous years version of that same model frameset with lower tier groupsets like Tiagra or 105. Sometimes even with Ultegra being sold as new. All with no proprietary stuff. Or at least with none that prevents aftermarket components of others being used.

Of course the new higher tier bikes with the seat mast will likely be something that in later years will be pushed down to the lower tier bikes as the new version frame of that model will become the highest tier equipped bike. So possibly there is a future for us where we'll have to accept bikes with proprietary stuff that might not be so easily replaceable with aftermarket stuff.
Whoops, my bad. I mis-read what you wrote. Sorry.

Yes, plenty of non-proprietary bikes but very rarely in conjunction with non-press-fit BB AND fender mounts. Other than the classic steel stuff like I said.

I'm going to try to do some test ride this weekend.

Last edited by danko; 05-15-24 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 05-15-24, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
How hard can it be to source a 1 1/4” stem? It might be less common, but there are plenty of popular bikes using that size.

No fender mounts could be an issue for some, although there are still some fender options available.
Not just the stem, but sometimes spacers are needed as well. 1 1/4" spacers are difficult to source for those who change to a slightly shorter (in height) stem.
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Old 05-15-24, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by danko

Yes, plenty of non-proprietary bikesbut very rarely in conjunction with non-press-fit BB AND fender mounts. Other than the classic steel stuff like I said.
Fender mounts are rare on many road bikes today. But mainly because many are just buying a bike for riding in decent weather and many of us right or wrong want bikes like the pro's ride in the big Grand Tours.

Perhaps if you want fender mounts then you should concentrate on the touring category of road bike which is targeted toward those that are going on multi day trips and have to be prepared to ride in any weather. Hmm... the pro's in the grand tours do multi-day rides and ride in any weather but they don't have bikes that typically have fender eyelets. <GRIN> just pointing that out before some other does!

Touring bikes tend to be a little heavier to be able to fit paniers and carry decent loads. As well they are geared lower to better serve the slower pace when loaded. And I can't think of any at the moment that aren't steel. They haven't been on my wish list in quite a long time.
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Old 05-15-24, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
Fender mounts are rare on many road bikes today. But mainly because many are just buying a bike for riding in decent weather and many of us right or wrong want bikes like the pro's ride in the big Grand Tours.

Perhaps if you want fender mounts then you should concentrate on the touring category of road bike which is targeted toward those that are going on multi day trips and have to be prepared to ride in any weather. Hmm... the pro's in the grand tours do multi-day rides and ride in any weather but they don't have bikes that typically have fender eyelets. <GRIN> just pointing that out before some other does!

Touring bikes tend to be a little heavier to be able to fit paniers and carry decent loads. As well they are geared lower to better serve the slower pace when loaded. And I can't think of any at the moment that aren't steel. They haven't been on my wish list in quite a long time.
A nice side effect of the splintering of road bikes into adventure/all-road/bikepacking/cx/race is, there's likely something in there that will work for your particular situation. It might be marketed for some other niche, but it's probably there. OP wants no proprietary parts and threaded BB, which narrows the scope but still.
All-City Space Horse. Soma Fog Cutter build. A buddy has hidden fender mounts on his carbon Synapse.
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Old 05-16-24, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by surak
Press-fit BB
Much less common 1 1/4" steerer tube so any stem swapping for fit is annoying
No fender mounts
IMO, stay away from a 1-1/4 steerer tube at all costs. They are exceedingly rare, which makes adjusting really challenging. Santana has a few. Woodman has a couple, but I think they are out of production. So, not really "proprietary" but still in the same category of a headache to deal with.
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Old 05-16-24, 04:18 PM
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