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Wooden rims?

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Wooden rims?

Old 05-17-24, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Jrasero
So that's roughly 680 euro or $740 for a non modern set of wheels when in comparison you can by a direct to consumer Chinese set of modern wheels in the 9Velo LV35 V2 at 1209 for $800 or buy even a lower end Superteam or Elitewheels for $600 or less. I mean do whatever you want but your build besides having some novel wheelset and it being able to accommodate a non modern bike is vastly inferior. The point is not if wooden wheels can be made but is it worth it? And the answer to that is a resounding no
This is exactly what I think is the point behind so many prejudices against wooden rims
But the fact that you could buy something else with that money means nothing.

Modern carbon Fluid dynamic wheels, it's worth it?
Well, it depends
  • If you are a sprinter who appreciates high acceleration, then that kind of modern carbon wheelset is worth the extra money it costs, because they are the lightest possible, with the best possible aerodynamic profile, because this is the case where less turbolence possible matters, as well as the inertial mass counts, the less mass there is, and with the same force, the less time it takes to accelerate it
  • if you are a climber who makes long and tiring climbs, then that type of modern wheels is worth the effort they save with other types of wheels, because this is the case of the inclined plane, where the weight force is broken down along the direction of motion , and creates an equal and opposite component that your legs must counteract, so every single milliWatt saved, even for apparently useless details such as saving 50g on the weight of the brakes (e.g. Campagnolo Skeleton vs traditional Caliper), well... on 10Km of climb... means spitting out a few liters less of saliva
but if you're someone who doesn't care about these things, and who instead wants to travel, and do it safely... then you're looking for a completely different set of wheels.

So, it will be necessary to understand whether to add comfort or not, if the statement of some doctors is true, namely that they absorb the roughness of the road better, greatly reducing stress on the joints, from the wrist, to the elbow, to the shoulders and finally the spine .

With your hands on the handlebar, the 45% of your weight rests on the front wheel, the remaining 55% on the rear. The geometries of the frame and fork do what they can, but we have high lateral rigidity, and lower vertical rigidity, most of the road stresses are transmitted from the handlebars to the hands, to the column.

That's part of the the equation, and if a wooden wheel sets helps, that's the added value.

You have to try them on a journey of at least 100km per day, something in stages, 500km at least so to speak.
Something I plan to check out, personally

Last edited by DiTBho; 05-17-24 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 05-17-24, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv
No doubt somewhere in China they can produce a wheel from mystery plastic that looks just like wood.
And as everyone knows, only suckers pay for real stuff when a generic look-a-like is available at a third the price.
well, look... I saw some crazy things in HongKong.
Some artistic imitation shoes of the big brands.
Same color but with the wrong spelling of the writing

PuMMa instead of Puma

Nice perhaps, for sure cheap, but definitively crap.
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Old 05-17-24, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Jrasero
Sailboats also have this thing called wind which is free energy and us cyclists have legs. Your point is mute
Way to go proving youíre not as smart as you think. The word youíre looking for is moot. Did you also get a cheap Chinese knockoff education to go with the wheels you keep promoting around the forum?
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Old 05-17-24, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by urbanknight
vintage bike
I am considering a Litespeed Classic 1997 frame with NivaCrMo fork for the wooden wheel sets.
From the perspective of the current year, 2024, things made in the 90s should be quite vintage.

In Holland I saw bikes built in 2023, in stainless steel (rare thing to see), without any paint, designed for the city.
Equipped with wooden rims, wooden handlebars, wooden pedals (alluminim core, MKS on based pedals).
Without brake grips or anything else, brake in the rear hub that can be operated by pedaling backwards.

On an aesthetic level, they were something very elegant and classic, which conveyed the same carefree feeling you have when taking a bike ride in the summer.
Unfortunately I couldn't try them, I had a return flight, and I was late.
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Old 05-17-24, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Jrasero
Again no it's not false. You literally can get Carbon fiber rims for the same price or a lot less and it weigh 250g less before building them up, plus if you were to buy a complete wheelset from a manufacture you could get lighter hubs and lighter spokes and nibbles for the same price or much less
Alright I looked up the AR25 and they are indeed that light at a very reasonable price. Not sure what the rest of the drivel is about since we're comparing rims and not hubs or spokes, but I would still say ~400 is not "heavy" for a typical rim.

Last edited by urbanknight; 05-18-24 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 05-17-24, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by DiTBho
I am considering a Litespeed Classic 1997 frame with NivaCrMo fork for the wooden wheel sets.
From the perspective of the current year, 2024, things made in the 90s should be quite vintage.

In Holland I saw bikes built in 2023, in stainless steel (rare thing to see), without any paint, designed for the city.
Equipped with wooden rims, wooden handlebars, wooden pedals (alluminim core, MKS on based pedals).
Without brake grips or anything else, brake in the rear hub that can be operated by pedaling backwards.

On an aesthetic level, they were something very elegant and classic, which conveyed the same carefree feeling you have when taking a bike ride in the summer.
Unfortunately I couldn't try them, I had a return flight, and I was late.
I meant more like 1920's, but there's no rule against putting it on a newer bike.
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Old 05-18-24, 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by DiTBho
I am considering a Litespeed Classic 1997 frame with NivaCrMo fork for the wooden wheel sets.
From the perspective of the current year, 2024, things made in the 90s should be quite vintage.

In Holland I saw bikes built in 2023, in stainless steel (rare thing to see), without any paint, designed for the city.
Equipped with wooden rims, wooden handlebars, wooden pedals (alluminim core, MKS on based pedals).
Without brake grips or anything else, brake in the rear hub that can be operated by pedaling backwards.

On an aesthetic level, they were something very elegant and classic, which conveyed the same carefree feeling you have when taking a bike ride in the summer.
Unfortunately I couldn't try them, I had a return flight, and I was late.
In Holland did the rider with the wooden bike parts wear wooden shoes?
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Old 05-18-24, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by datlas
In Holland did the rider with the wooden bike parts wear wooden shoes?
LOL, funny =)





here it must be said that... the soles of cycling shoes should be as rigid as possible.
To transfer the force from the foot to the pedal with the greatest possible efficiency.
Without losses in elastic deformations

I usually don't wear cycling shoes, but runners' ones, which doesn't ensure maximum efficiency at all.
But I'm also the guy who puts a side stand on my racing bike.
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Old 05-18-24, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by DiTBho
So, it will be necessary to understand whether to add comfort or not, if the statement of some doctors is true, namely that they absorb the roughness of the road better, greatly reducing stress on the joints, from the wrist, to the elbow, to the shoulders and finally the spine .

With your hands on the handlebar, the 45% of your weight rests on the front wheel, the remaining 55% on the rear. The geometries of the frame and fork do what they can, but we have high lateral rigidity, and lower vertical rigidity, most of the road stresses are transmitted from the handlebars to the hands, to the column.
The vertical stiffness of bicycle wheels does not vary with the rim material. No bike wheel, regardless of material, deforms vertically sufficiently for the deformation to be perceptible when the tire deforms more by orders of magnitude.

If you believe wood rims somehow stand apart from the other rim materials with respect to vertical deformation in a built wheel, please provide links to test results supporting that belief.

(Note: most reports of results of wheel stiffness tests are confined to measurements of lateral stiffness, because the measured differences in vertical stiffness have been shown to be insignificant/bordering on nonexistent.)

How Much Does a Bicycle Wheel Deflect Vertically? Not Much.

Spoke Tension and Vertical Wheel Stiffness

Wheel Stiffness Test

Jobst Brandt was a bicycle enthusiast and an engineer (who, for instance, designed suspension systems for Porsche) who had very little patience for claims regarding bicycle technology that were unsupported by evidence. Here's a collection of topics presenting some of his thoughts on bike tech. Discussions of the vertical stiffness of bike wheels are conspicuously absent.

Another page with more from Jobst.
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Old 05-18-24, 04:25 AM
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1936 bicyle
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Old 05-18-24, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
The vertical stiffness of bicycle wheels does not vary with the rim material
I am not sure. You can't say anything without trying them.

Last edited by DiTBho; 05-18-24 at 04:35 AM.
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Old 05-18-24, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
If you believe wood rims somehow stand apart from the other rim materials with respect to vertical deformation in a built wheel, please provide links to test results supporting that belief.
I don't believe anything, as I well wrote, it was declared not by me, but by the manufacturers.
It's clearly advertised as a benefit, and and it's precisely want I am willing to verify in person.
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Old 05-18-24, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by DiTBho
I am not sure. You can't say anything without trying them.
Trying them tells you nothing. Confirmation bias is a real thing. People used to believe that aluminum bike frames rode more harshly than steel and titanium frames. But tests showed that, e.g., a 1997 Cannondale aluminum racing frame differed from a Litespeed titanium racing frame in vertical compliance under a representative load by 0.018" - a difference that would obviously be imperceptible through the suspension provided by any bike tire.

Instead of "trying them," measure them. See the first of my links in the post you quoted for a simple test rig that would demonstrate the difference in vertical compliance between a built wheel with a wood rim and a similar wheel built with any other rim material. Once you've purchased the wood rims and built the wheels, please measure the vertical compliance and report back.
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Old 05-18-24, 05:44 AM
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I think a bare Ti frame would be a good choice to show off the wooden rims. A 650b conversion would let you run wider tires, better for a cruiser type bike.
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Old 05-18-24, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv
I think a bare Ti frame would be a good choice to show off the wooden rims. A 650b conversion would let you run wider tires, better for a cruiser type bike.
Did a quick search: current-production wood rims seem to be available in 26" (probably meaning 559 mm) and 700c (622 mm; some rim manufacturers refer to this size as 28" or 29") in tubular or "pneumatic" models. Didn't see any 650b rims listed.
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Old 05-18-24, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by DiTBho

but if you're someone who doesn't care about these things, and who instead wants to travel, and do it safely... then you're looking for a completely different set of wheels.
If you want more comfort, wider, higher volume tyres are what you are looking for. Choice of wheel rim material is irrelevant in this respect.

Wood is a useful material and still used in many engineering/sporting applications. For example most skis still have laminated wood cores. But in many applications, other materials have completely taken over. Tennis racquets were almost all wooden until the 80s, when aluminium became more popular and then ultimately carbon, which is now universally accepted as the material of choice for all but the cheapest aluminium racquets.

Wheel manufacturers abandoned wooden rims much earlier in favour of aluminium and now carbon rims. I donít see 2024 marking a return to wooden rims in this market or any other where it has been long since displaced. What do you think has changed that would suddenly make wooden rims viable again?
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Old 05-18-24, 06:17 AM
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Well maybe OP could go with a vintage MTB frame. Should be cheap, canti brakes would add some visual interest. Ditch the suspension fork, obviously. I'm seeing it! Keep the gearing uncluttered with a single speed or 1X. Brooks saddle and a brass bell.
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Old 05-18-24, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Wheel manufacturers abandoned wooden rims much earlier in favour of aluminium and now carbon rims. I don’t see 2024 marking a return to wooden rims in this market or any other where it has been long since displaced. What do you think has changed that would suddenly make wooden rims viable again?
That transition happened long before bicycles became fashion statements (or curmudgeon statements) for recognizable cohorts of bike owners. If I were a young fixie guy (or whatever they've moved on to), I'd replace my deep-dish pink rims with wood rims in a second.
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Old 05-18-24, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
If you want more comfort, wider, higher volume tyres are what you are looking for. Choice of wheel rim material is irrelevant in this respect.

Wood is a useful material and still used in many engineering/sporting applications. For example most skis still have laminated wood cores. But in many applications, other materials have completely taken over. Tennis racquets were almost all wooden until the 80s, when aluminium became more popular and then ultimately carbon, which is now universally accepted as the material of choice for all but the cheapest aluminium racquets.

Wheel manufacturers abandoned wooden rims much earlier in favour of aluminium and now carbon rims. I donít see 2024 marking a return to wooden rims in this market or any other where it has been long since displaced. What do you think has changed that would suddenly make wooden rims viable again?

Ok, we are all idiot, blablabla.
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Old 05-18-24, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by DiTBho
Ok, we are all idiot, blablabla.
Not all of us.
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Old 05-18-24, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by DiTBho
Ok, we are all idiot, blablabla.
So far you havenít presented a convincing USP for wooden rims. Novelty and vintage aesthetics are all youíve really got. Your ideas about safety and comfort advantages are not very credible.
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Old 05-18-24, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
Instead of "trying them," measure them. See the first of my links in the post you quoted for a simple test rig that would demonstrate the difference in vertical compliance between a built wheel with a wood rim and a similar wheel built with any other rim material. Once you've purchased the wood rims and built the wheels, please measure the vertical compliance and report back.
You brought up this stiffness thing of wheels when I mentione it about frames, and about wheels were talking about how much they absorb vibrations.
By "trying", I really mean trying wheels on the road, but with accelerometers attached to both the fork and the handlebars, then comparing the same experience with other wheels.

technically it is not exactly a measurement, because I will work on renormalized differences, totally dimensionless numbers.

As I wrote, I am interested in how much they dampen vibrations, and here there are many factors, from the material, to the fact that a TSS rim cannot be inflated to more than 5 Bar, 2 bar less than what I use with normal steel rims aluminum steel, but I'm interested in the overall result.

Have you ever worked with a MEMS gyroscope? The instantaneous numerical error is negligible, but in drones you have to be very careful with the integral function because that error, spread over a 1 hour time window, sends the sensor-fusion into saturation if nothing is done.

What do I mean? You may "somehow" take your rim measurements and think the differences vs allu? carbon? are negligible, and locally they are (especially if measured with hobby instruments), but they can make a big difference after 5 hours in the saddle.

This is what they advertised and what I want to check out, and for sure, I'll make my observations.
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Old 05-18-24, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
So far you havenít presented a convincing USP for wooden rims. Novelty and vintage aesthetics are all youíve really got. Your ideas about safety and comfort advantages are not very credible.
I don't have to convince anyone, and I don't have to educate anyone.
I won't read other comments, it has been a pure waste of my time.
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Old 05-18-24, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by DiTBho
You brought up this stiffness thing of wheels when I mentione it about frames, and about wheels were talking about how much they absorb vibrations.
By "trying", I really mean trying wheels on the road, but with accelerometers attached to both the fork and the handlebars, then comparing the same experience with other wheels.

technically it is not exactly a measurement, because I will work on renormalized differences, totally dimensionless numbers.

As I wrote, I am interested in how much they dampen vibrations, and here there are many factors, from the material, to the fact that a TSS rim cannot be inflated to more than 5 Bar, 2 bar less than what I use with normal steel rims aluminum steel, but I'm interested in the overall result.

Have you ever worked with a MEMS gyroscope? The instantaneous numerical error is negligible, but in drones you have to be very careful with the integral function because that error, spread over a 1 hour time window, sends the sensor-fusion into saturation if nothing is done.

What do I mean? You may "somehow" take your rim measurements and think the differences vs allu? carbon? are negligible, and locally they are (especially if measured with hobby instruments), but they can make a big difference after 5 hours in the saddle.

This is what they advertised and what I want to check out, and for sure, I'll make my observations.
Looking forward to your results. The manufacturers of wood rims would probably welcome the data if they wish to increase sales. (They may be happy with their market as it is, though. Not all such companies are willing to put up with the headaches that might accompany such an expansion in business.)

GCN and other publishers in the cycling field with an online presence would likely be interested, too, whether or not the results show significant differences from aluminum and carbon rims.
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Old 05-18-24, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by DiTBho
I don't have to convince anyone, and I don't have to educate anyone.
I won't read other comments, it has been a pure waste of my time.
Would it have been more useful if everyone just agreed with your viewpoint? I actually think you made a valid point about vibration absorption. You will find that carbon fibre is also very good in this regard and the main reason I prefer carbon seatposts and bars over metal. Wood may offer similar damping properties.
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