DXchulo

Last night I was riding around sunset and my shadow was riding along on my left. My narcissism took over and I began looking at the shadow. I was in the drops fighting a headwind and I noticed that my back wasn't as flat as I'd like it to be. Instead, it was slanting upwards. I started thinking about how to fix that.

At first I thought maybe I simply was not bending it enough, so I got down as aero as possible with my nose to the stem and looked at the shadow again. It was a little better, but still bent.

The next thing I thought was that maybe my saddle was too low, making my back slant upwards from my butt. This is probably an inaccurate way to do it, but I just raised my butt out of the saddle for a while trying to get my butt high and my back flat. That didn't work, so I decided to stop messing around.

Here's the question- Do I have an issue of bad fit here, or am I looking for something (a flat back) that most people don't achieve anyway? I mean, few people, even pros, can ride with a perfectly flat back, right?

Pictures would help, so I'll try to get some taken, but I have to pack up the U-Haul for Toledo today, so who knows how long that will take.

clausen

Could be fit, flexibility, core strength or the way the light was hitting you. And like you mentioned few achieve a truly flat back.

Doggus

I wouldn't use a shadow on the ground to gauge your form. The light can do tricky things when everything is at weird angles. If you really want to see your profile set up a light at your level on a trainer against a wall. Just an idea.

DXchulo

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention- I was suspicious of the shadow, so I checked myself in the mirror and had the same problem.

tribe3

Lance has a pretty humped back and it doesn't seem to slow him down a lot

55/Rad

Here's what I did. Lower your bars to an ungodly level. Then force yourself to ride them. You'll either adjust or die trying.

55/Rad

velocity

What out for your ROM while attempting to become more stream lined thhis could lead to tight hip flexors and sore lumbar.
Velocity

Burke Wells

Lance does look a little humped over when compared to a few others, however, as you mentioned, it sure didn't seem to hinder anything. In my opinion, very few have an aero postion that looks as good as that of David Zabriskie.

I think it's pretty cool that your shadow brought this to your attention. Regardless of accuracy, it does make you think about something that you might not have thought of otherwise.

Burke

my58vw

Flat back is a combination of reach, handlebar drop, etc. I also has to do with how you sit on the saddle... i.e. rotated pelvis forward. Now that said everything else ^^^ still applies.

DXchulo

Very nice illustrations there. LA is kind of an odd case because of his back condition. It looks like his back would be pretty flat if you took away the hump.

You're right about Zabriskie. His position is sweet. How does he get so low yet keep his legs so far away from his chest? Amazing...

ZappCatt

You shouldn't really worry about comparing your position in the drops to the 2 fastest TT'ers on their TT bikes..

Yo-

If you bend your elbows more it should allow your head and shoulders to fall down a bit, and then you can just straighten out your back.

lilHinault

LeMond used to get really flat, but if you look at the latest Velo News, there's Lance on the cover looking really humpy and it doesn't seem to slow him down much.

Chucklehead

i have the lance hump, too. my best friend does not and he's pretty wiry. we discussed this not too long ago and decided it probably had something to do with lung capacity or just the overall size of the chest cavity.

samp02

AGE was my downfall.....

No Exit

What??? LOL

DXchulo

Yeah, that looks like a crazy statement, but Lance's hump isn't like everyone else's hump. He had some sort of medical condition that caused it. I can't think of the name right now. Anyway, you can tell by looking at him that his back has an abnormal hump, and if you took away that abnormality (round him out to look like a "normal" person) his back would look pretty flat. Not as flat as Zabriskie, but flat enough.


Anyway, I know I shouldn't be comparing myself to any pro and a perfectly flat back is impossible to get, so maybe I should restate this a little bit:

I don't feel like I'm bent over far enough, and it's not a flexibility issue. I'm a pretty flexible guy, and even when I bend down uncomfortably low it still seems like my back isn't flat enough. My position is too upright. Now, my stem is flipped down and if I raised my saddle my knees would start hurting. I have two spacers under my stem, so maybe I'll try lowering my stem and putting those on top.

Other than that, what else can I do? I guess I'll have to pay more attention to frame geometry.

puddin' legs

"i.e. rotated pelvis forward"

Bullseye right on the head. If you only bend your elbows but don't rotate your pelvis forward, you're forever going to be a hunchback with breathing difficulties. Rotate your pelvis forward, bend your elbows, and a whole world of aero efficiency, power, and comfort are yours in the drops and on the hoods.

DannoXYZ 

VW's and puddlin' got the right idea. Flat back starts at the seat and your pelvis has to be rotated forwards at the hips rather than sitting upright like in a chair. A lot of people's positions are like sitting in a chair, then hunching over by bending the back, like they're eating really close to their food. This really constricts the chest-cavity. To rock your pelvis, just stand up on the pedals, and stick your ass out like a porn-star getting it doggy-style. Imagine you had a tail, raise the tail as high as you can, then sit back down (be sure to pull the jewels up out of the way when putting the shorts on). WIth a pelvis that's rotated forward 45-60 degrees, the spine doesn't have to bend at all. Much less lower-back pain on long rides.

And the comment on bending the elbows is the other half of the equation. Bent elbows are not stiffly locked and will absorb more road-shock, so your shoulders will be less tired as well. Here's some flat-back photos:






There's numerous benefits to having a flat-back besides the comfort factors. The side-panel on the jersey is horizontal, making for better exposure of your sponsors. You're more aero, takes less effort for the same speed, you can corner faster due to lower C.O.G, and probably most importantly, the guys behind you can't get a draft. I'm able to pull away from people in sprints by staying in the saddle and spinning madly. They don't realize I'm sprinting away until a 10-20ft gap's opened up and I'm still pulling away.. heh, heh...

As for Lance, who knows, maybe he'd be even faster with a flatter back and lower shoulders on the same level as his hips like Lemond. But there's something strange about that photo as Lance's elbows are lower than Zabriskie's even with a higher shoulder & back. Strange... maybe he's got really long upper-arms or something. Interesting note is the latest wind-tunnel testing seems to indicate that horizontal forearms are fastest compared to the previous aero-position of the praying mantis. Perhaps because your entire forearm rides in the wind "shadow" of your fists and doesn't block any more wind than that. Same thing with a flat and low back, your entire upper-torso doesn't block any more wind than your shoulders head-on.

But it takes work to get there, just like learning to spin circles; it's not natural at first and you have to develop the new neural-pathways to activate it. Takes tonnes of miles and maybe years of practice. I used to mount a set of V-shaped aero-bars on top of my bars, but backwards. The wings face backwards instead of forwards and it forces me to bend my elbows and keep my forearms horizontal in order to reach past the wings to the drops.

simplyred

I think he busted his back when he was young & had some surgery - I THINK I heard it from Phil & Bob during Lance's stage win TT.