Orange Seal Congealed??
 

Hey all! I used Orange Seal's "Endurance Formula" about 5 months ago for some Pirellis. I recently noticed that the rear wheel was losing air rather dramatically. I pulled the tires and found that the sealant in both had congealed completely! The sealant puddled and turned into a soft rubber composition, strongly sticking to the tire. I live in a desert and we experience super hot summer weather. But I inserted the sealant when the weather was cool. Has anyone experienced this with the Endurance Formula? I typically change out my sealant every six months, but I've never have it congeal like this. In facts, my past sealants always stayed liquid. Thanks.

I use Orange Seal Endurance and live in the desert southwest. So, pretty hot summers. Though my bike is usually in the air conditioned shop space. Anyway, I monitor my sealant level regularly. I checked it about every 6 weeks and almost always add a bit more fresh sealant. Might as well since I have the valve cores out. My bike is ridden multiple times a week, so the sealant isn't sitting in one spot on the tire that long.

I believe adding fresh sealant effectively keeps the older from congealing.

I've never changed out sealant (new for old). But I wear out a set of tires in 6-8 months. On one occasion when replacing a tire, I did find a good size tire booger of hardened sealant. It was more or less a cylinder. It was the diameter of the inside of the tire and about 1.5" long. Never noticed it while riding, so it wasn't a problem.

I don't run tubeless on bikes I don't ride regularly. I would expect sealant to congeal if a tire were unmoved for months.

I think what you are seeing is just the way it is. Check the sealant more often. Top it off and if not using the bike for an extended period, perhaps remove the sealant completely.

Thanks. I have a few bikes in rotation, and probably go about 2 weeks at max not using this bike. I was pretty surprised, and will take your advice.

I've use Orange Seal Endurance for a while and never had that happen. I have 2 sets of wheels for my CheckPoint and sometimes 1 set of wheels does not get used as often based on what I feel like riding, and even still, I have not come across that. I am assuming you have shaken it up well before you filled your tires, but if not, that could have been the reason. I have not ever gotten to a point where it was empty and completely dried out though.

Funny how we use the same stuff and have different results. I live in Florida and I add two ounces every couple three months in my tubeless set up. At the end of the year, almost all of it is dried and I remove the tires, peel it off and start over. I chalk it up to the price you have to pay to be tuebless. No biggie for me.

At some point, all of the sealant brands will congeal. It's worse if your tire or wheels have some kind of leak.

Think about the sealant in the air tight bottle. It can sit there for years and not congeal. If your wheel/tire system is air tight for the most part, the sealant will last for months in the liquid state. If there are slow air leaks here and there, then it will congeal.

Some folks resolublize it with ethylene glycol. I never tried this, and I would use propylene glycol as it is far less toxic.

I agree with this.

I think the amount of use makes a difference. Obviously, there is some advantage to using the tire enough that the sealant gets spread around. So, to the extent it does dry out, it is evenly spread. But, the more miles you put on a tire, the more punctures you put in it. Many times, I've retired a set of tires, especially front tires, not because the tread surface is worn out, but rather because the dozens of tiny punctures begin to start weeping. It's not sealant in the sense of what you get with a puncture before it seals. It's watery with no sign of latex (or whatever) and I suspect the main component of the solution the solids in the sealant are dissolved into.

I also suspect this relates to the tire casing breaking down to some degree.

Point being, I think it plausible that lightly used tires may go months without sealant drying up. Many report that here on BF. But that's not my experience with different tires and sealants. But I'm typically putting in around 500 mile per month. So a significant amount of mileage.

We all seem to refer to the time between sealant maintenance, but I wonder if mileage might not be a better parameter to relate it to. Rather like oil changes in cars. We use mileage not months. It doesn't seem unreasonable there is something happening to sealant as it is continually getting sloshed around while riding. And as mentioned, the tires clearly wear out and it seems reasonable this would affect the sealant.

I live in Montana. I added Orange Sealant to my gravel bike in September. I just checked it a few days ago and there is plenty of liquid sealant still in there. I don't ride during the winter and the bike sits in my unheated garage.

Nice. You caught it before it completely dried out. Hopefully everyone understands that all sealant dries out and needs to be replenished. We use the Endurance formula to help extend that period of time but how long that takes is up to each customer, their use case, where they are, how often they ride, what temps and conditions they ride in, etc. In general here in the midwest we find we are needing to replenish for gravel and road about every 3-4 months or so.

I guess it's all a bit random. I have a TT bike with the same sealant that I've been using sporadically for about 4 months. Sealant is still in good shape. As an aside, the tires with the gelatinous sealant are Pirelli P-Zero Race. I have them fit to Stans Alpha 400 rims, which have a 17mm internal width. They never "sealed" well and would lost air far more quickly than my Conti GP5's will. I re-set them a few times, but they never sealed they way I would want. Do you think the tires themselves may lead to early drying to the sealant?

Nope. We've sold Pirellis since they came out with their bike line and noticed not a single difference between them and other tires we sell. "Had a problem sealing" can mean a lot of things. Using a TLR tire on a tubeless rim should have few if any problems sealing quickly. I have found that almost all probelems like that are caused by rim tape starting to fail or a leak around a valve.

Thanks. I just ordered a set of the Vitorria valves. Super expensive, but they work so well.

One thing that I always keep in mind, w/r/t sealant, is your mileage and expected rate of miles/puncture. I've pretty much stopped using OS Endurance because a) the regular stuff seals better for me and b) the sealant doesn't stay in my tires long enough to warrant Endurance. During prime riding season. I've found my tires bone dry less than 4 weeks after dosing them, presumably being expended on punctures that I didn't notice.

I live in the hot San Fernando Valley and use Orange Seal Endurance. After slowly learning that the weather wildly varies the sealant's longevity, I now check the levels about once a month. Sometimes I have to add some after 2 months, other times I can go 6. In order to prevent pooling, any wheels not used for a week get a good spin for a minute. Seems to do the trick.

Topped off my wheels with 1.5 ounces Orange Seal Endurance in November and removed one of the tires a week ago. There was probably 5 drips of liquid and the rest had formed a complete snake skin covering the the tire’s interior. Peeling it off was a fun 35 minute treat.

If I top it off monthly with another 1.5 ounces, after a year, the tire will probably weigh a pound more with all the dried sealant. However someone did say to add fresh in it to keep the existing from congealing. Will have to try that. May have to set a monthly reminder on the phone.

The solids content in the sealant is pretty light. A few years ago, I made a point of not peeling any snake skins from a particular tire, and letting it accumulate, so that I could see how much it weighed at the EOL. It was one of the better snakes skins that I've experienced, myself, but the weight was still miniscule. For the non-metrically minded, 28g is an ounce.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1de5ccfaa4.png

OK, dumb question. If there is liquid sealant in the tire, why aren't the "slow air leaks" sealed?

Some get sealed some don't. Often there can can be and air leak through the spoke holes or valve stem and for whatever reason the sealant doesn't make it there.

Sealants have solids in them to plug the holes on the tire. Just a theory...But maybe the there is gap in the tape (from poor installation) that is just small enough that air escapes but the the solids in the sealant can't get through tape and to the spoke hole area to seal it up.

The sealant can also separate over time. The sealing stuff you want dries up and the rest seeps out. It's not a perfect system but works well.

When I used tubes, I noticed I would lose more air from tires than I do with tubeless tires.

I'm starting to wonder of the time/effort/cost/aggravation of dealing with tubeless is worth it over conventional tubed tires.

Most definitely. Especially in the MTB and Gravel and Fat Bike world. When tires get punctured...Just keep on riding. At mininum a quick stop to refill lost air.

I haven't convinced myself it's necessary on my road bikes yet. I'm running the Schwalbe Aerothan tubes on my road bike.

It depends on the time/effort/cost/aggravation that you have dealing with tubed tires.

I'll admit that there was a definite learning curve for me, when transitioning to tubeless, and it was a little frustrating. Now? Not a friggin' chance that I'd go back - it is, on the balance, much, much less hassle for me.

That said, if I was one of those folks that only got two flats per year - no, I wouldn't bother looking at tubeless.

WhyFi: I live in the desert where we get those crazy goat head and bougainvillea thorns. They get crazy. I'd literally get flats several times weekly. That's why I switched to tubeless. But I've realized that the thorn issue is really just a seasonable thing. I can probably switch to Gatorskins during the springtime. They ride like crap, but work well.

I think it's is sort of like why does an open can of paint dry out even though the top layer skins over and dries. Simply put, I think the air migrates through both the tires and sealant. It does it slowly, but clearly does it faster than it does through tubes. Which of course also slowly go flat, though usually very slowly.

I've been riding about 6 years, 25,000+ miles, mostly road riding. All road riding with tubeless, never once had to spend any time on the side of the road dealing with a punctured tube. Maybe had to plug a tire 4-6 times total. That takes less than a minute to plug, then time to reinflate as needed. And I haven't even had to do that in close to 2 years. I live in the desert southwest. Lots of goat head and other things.

No question tubeless takes some time to setup and maintain. It has a learning curve, as does using tubes. For example, many examples on BF of people having mystery leaks with tubes likely due to damaging the tube during tire installation. People learn to avoid that. Just as people learn to tape a rim properly.

Even if tubeless were 10X harder to deal with than tubes (and it's no where near that involved), I'd still take 10X more effort in the comfort of my shop over dealing with replacing a tube on the side of the road. And I'm not saying that dealing with a tube on the side of the road is some horrendous thing. From comments I've seen here on BF, many seem to have it down pat and deal with it quickly. And those same people likely prefer that over dealing with tubeless. Different strokes for different folks.

No need to peel it off...If anything, it probably helps keep the tire carcass airtight. And it weighs virtually nothing.

+1 on the phone reminder. Whenever I top off sealant or set up a new tire, I just tell my phone to remind me to check the sealant level -- 3-4 weeks later in hot weather, perhaps six weeks later in winter.